Forest vs PGMOL | Page 20 | Vital Football

Forest vs PGMOL

BlackGold said:
Why use technology and not make the outcome categoric - a millimetre (not sure if the lines can run to that degree, but you get the point) offside is offside - and rulings defined by the tech.

However, VAR are hamstrung by the tech itself.

For example, why are the cameras not UHD at the very minimum, given i saw content via tradeshows 15 years ago of 8K outputs.
Why do they use the camera speed governed for broadcast, i.e. 25 frames-per-second
Surely High Framerate is necessary for such minusule calls.

The money is there to implement a more forensic system, but the tech VAR have available is League One standard at best.

Subjective VAR would be even more of a catastrophe, IMO...might as well sack it all off, and allow the definitive and irrefutable call to be made by the referee and 2 linos.

Personally, i'd get rid of VAR entirely.
Wonder what the NFFC Twitter mod would complain of, if a similar thing happened to the penalty calls vs Everton without VAR...lol
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There is nothing wrong with the technology being used; the problem is the people who are using it.

As for a more forensic system, why?

What is wrong with they current system?

If the idiots who changed the off side rule went back to the "level" means on side, and made it so you do not need a slide rule to check, there would be no issue, even a simple minded referee would be able to figure out the correct decision to make.

Stop fucking around with things that did not need changing and all of the problems go away.

On top of that, they could make the whole process fully transparent, with a live audio feed covering the decision making process, and, at the same time, putting the responsibility on someone with a name and a face, not a semi anonymous group.

The PL know full well that this will blow over and no one will have the balls to challenge how things are; that suits them and it suits the top 6.

As for the Twitter reaction; the more I think about it, the more that needed saying - complaining to, and ultimately getting fobbed off, by the powers that be just does not work.

What you have now is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, amongst what seems like a majority of supporters, and then you have the self appointed guardians of the game, like Neville and Carragher, controlling the narrative and trying to drown out the discontent.

Football democracy in action, a few million pissed off supporters being lectured to by two c * n t s in a TV studio.

Roll on the new Regulator.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I think we can easily get bogged down on the decision making of VAR, which has been bad but hasn't been our main problem

We have faced 17 poor decisions this season, of which 15 at least have been really objectionally bad.

Not one of them has been "given" by VAR though.

All 17 have been the wrong on-field decision by the referee. All 17 have then been upheld by VAR. To the best of my knowledge, not a single one of the 17 has so much as sent the ref to the screen.

That is extraordinary.

15-16 really, particularly bad on field decisions (excluding the Rice handball which is dubious), all gotten wrong by the ref, not one even sent for review.

With 4 games to go we could easily get to 19 and therefore have a horrific decision every other game on average.

The first problem has been terrible initial decision making by the referees, which has been consistently against us and suspiciously so.

The second problem has been VAR just automatically confirming the referee's decision in every instance, regardless of whether it is right or wrong. We weren't seeing that last year, we have this. They are protecting each other
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I totally agree with you. I arrived at 12 horrific decisions, but those did not include the Brighton red card, or Maddisons punch, and I had forgotten about Rice. I would class those 3 decisions in a 'normal' season as taking the 'rough with the smooth'

What I would like to know is, have there been any decisions which we have gotten away with? I discount Felipe on Bruno as it was the last minute and we were 2-0 down
 
mao tse tung said:
There is nothing wrong with the technology being used; the problem is the people who are using it.

As for a more forensic system, why?

What is wrong with they current system?

If the idiots who changed the off side rule went back to the "level" means on side, and made it so you do not need a slide rule to check, there would be no issue, even a simple minded referee would be able to figure out the correct decision to make.

Stop fucking around with things that did not need changing and all of the problems go away.

On top of that, they could make the whole process fully transparent, with a live audio feed covering the decision making process, and, at the same time, putting the responsibility on someone with a name and a face, not a semi anonymous group.

The PL know full well that this will blow over and no one will have the balls to challenge how things are; that suits them and it suits the top 6.

As for the Twitter reaction; the more I think about it, the more that needed saying - complaining to, and ultimately getting fobbed off, by the powers that be just does not work.

What you have now is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, amongst what seems like a majority of supporters, and then you have the self appointed guardians of the game, like Neville and Carragher, controlling the narrative and trying to drown out the discontent.

Football democracy in action, a few million pissed off supporters being lectured to by two c * n t s in a TV studio.

Roll on the new Regulator.
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100%. Sometimes, and actually in many/most occasions, in order to force through real change and real debate you absolutely need to drop a hand grenade into the room, stand back, then deal with the fall out. Because at that point, everyone is involved.

I read somewhere today if we go down, that EM will go legal. If we go down by 4 points or less I fully support this. Being deducted those points is an absolute crime against sporting integrity and that must be the second hand grenade dropped if this happens to us
 
finbar70 said:
I totally agree with you. I arrived at 12 horrific decisions, but those did not include the Brighton red card, or Maddisons punch, and I had forgotten about Rice. I would class those 3 decisions in a 'normal' season as taking the 'rough with the smooth'

What I would like to know is, have there been any decisions which we have gotten away with? I discount Felipe on Bruno as it was the last minute and we were 2-0 down
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Liverpool would argue Yates on Konate.

But that ignores what is a pretty stonewall penalty on Omobamidele 3 seconds before that which should have won us the game

And I would have welcomed a 95th minute ref for Yates. The ref gave them the ball back anyway but it would have focused us and I reckon makes it far more likely we come away with a point

We got the one VAR penalty against Brighton. That was given because they got an almost identical one.

I suppose you could debate the Rodri sending off which went for us, and the Phillips sending off. However, both games ended as they were heading at the time anyway
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Liverpool would argue Yates on Konate.

But that ignores what is a pretty stonewall penalty on Omobamidele 3 seconds before that which should have won us the game

And I would have welcomed a 95th minute ref for Yates. The ref gave them the ball back anyway but it would have focused us and I reckon makes it far more likely we come away with a point

We got the one VAR penalty against Brighton. That was given because they got an almost identical one.

I suppose you could debate the Rodri sending off which went for us, and the Phillips sending off. However, both games ended as they were heading at the time anyway
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I would argue that if we were presenting or trying to argue things around bad decisions we would have to include any that went for us, even if in the last minute and didn't effect the result, simply to show balance.

however wasn't there any angle that showed yates didn't touch Konate and it was his keeper that clattered him?
 
splitty62 said:
I would argue that if we were presenting or trying to argue things around bad decisions we would have to include any that went for us, even if in the last minute and didn't effect the result, simply to show balance.

however wasn't there any angle that showed yates didn't touch Konate and it was his keeper that clattered him?
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Liverpool fans argue high foot straight red, but they are arseholes trying to deflect from getting a lucky break, because no one else in the world of football can be victims of anything
 
TMFwanstead said:
For me get rid of Var. However, if not just use it for obvious mistakes. Tell the officials not to forensically examine every decision. When a goal is scored don’t look at it unless you think an obvious error from the on field officials has occurred.
Example. The Coventry disallowed goal. The pass to the winger initially looked offside. Take a look with one line and if he is obviously offside disallow it but he wasn’t obviously offside then immediately say it’s a goal
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when i was a kid it wasnt so subjective, it pretty much meant there had to be daylight between the attacker and defender
 
mao tse tung said:
There is nothing wrong with the technology being used; the problem is the people who are using it.

As for a more forensic system, why?

What is wrong with they current system?

If the idiots who changed the off side rule went back to the "level" means on side, and made it so you do not need a slide rule to check, there would be no issue, even a simple minded referee would be able to figure out the correct decision to make.

Stop fucking around with things that did not need changing and all of the problems go away.

On top of that, they could make the whole process fully transparent, with a live audio feed covering the decision making process, and, at the same time, putting the responsibility on someone with a name and a face, not a semi anonymous group.

The PL know full well that this will blow over and no one will have the balls to challenge how things are; that suits them and it suits the top 6.

As for the Twitter reaction; the more I think about it, the more that needed saying - complaining to, and ultimately getting fobbed off, by the powers that be just does not work.

What you have now is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, amongst what seems like a majority of supporters, and then you have the self appointed guardians of the game, like Neville and Carragher, controlling the narrative and trying to drown out the discontent.

Football democracy in action, a few million pissed off supporters being lectured to by two c * n t s in a TV studio.

Roll on the new Regulator.
Click to expand...
it can be a problem tho, there was one game where we thought we should have a decision but the camera couldnt even tell if the player is in the box or not, remember?
 
LynxRed said:
Having watched that video, and seeing how easily a decision can go either way based on which frame, precisely where they draw the lines, and how low quality the VAR picture is (for some reason?!) I think more benefit of those variables needs to go to the attacker.

At the very least they should use the most favourable frame for the attacker and probably build in a computerised "margin of error" where if the offside lines are touching it's given in favour of the attacking team.
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The tech is shit, old and not fit for purpose.

For the “best league in the world” that they’re using TV streams, or fixed cameras, that are low quality to prevent latency, at the minimum framerate with encoding (mpeg2 was devised for DVD production over twenty ago) their pictures is laughable.

VAR Basics: Cameras for video assistant referee systems (VAR)

Dedicated cameras for VAR systems allows placing them in locations that provide the most complete overview of the field and setting the correct viewing angle
slomo.tv slomo.tv

“Similar difficulties will also exist with identifying the offside position in soccer since it is not possible to match the frames and determine the position of the objects.”

Basically, the game moves too quickly for the capturing speed of the cameras in place.
Coupled to the reduced quality of each frame recorded (when zoomed, the pixillation evident on a close-up) as its a compressed codec makes the evidence available to VAR little more than guesswork.
 
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mao tse tung said:
There is nothing wrong with the technology being used; the problem is the people who are using it.

As for a more forensic system, why?

What is wrong with they current system?

If the idiots who changed the off side rule went back to the "level" means on side, and made it so you do not need a slide rule to check, there would be no issue, even a simple minded referee would be able to figure out the correct decision to make.

Stop fucking around with things that did not need changing and all of the problems go away.

On top of that, they could make the whole process fully transparent, with a live audio feed covering the decision making process, and, at the same time, putting the responsibility on someone with a name and a face, not a semi anonymous group.

The PL know full well that this will blow over and no one will have the balls to challenge how things are; that suits them and it suits the top 6.

As for the Twitter reaction; the more I think about it, the more that needed saying - complaining to, and ultimately getting fobbed off, by the powers that be just does not work.

What you have now is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, amongst what seems like a majority of supporters, and then you have the self appointed guardians of the game, like Neville and Carragher, controlling the narrative and trying to drown out the discontent.

Football democracy in action, a few million pissed off supporters being lectured to by two c * n t s in a TV studio.

Roll on the new Regulator.
Click to expand...
The tech they’re using for a billion pound industry is laughable.
 
PGMOL have kept quiet the last few days, the news cycle will move on this weekend, I'm expecting us to sink and this to be seen as a side show which won't have done us any favours with the league or refs.

Sick to the back teeth of it though.
 
mao tse tung said:
There is nothing wrong with the technology being used; the problem is the people who are using it.

As for a more forensic system, why?

What is wrong with they current system?

If the idiots who changed the off side rule went back to the "level" means on side, and made it so you do not need a slide rule to check, there would be no issue, even a simple minded referee would be able to figure out the correct decision to make.

Stop fucking around with things that did not need changing and all of the problems go away.

On top of that, they could make the whole process fully transparent, with a live audio feed covering the decision making process, and, at the same time, putting the responsibility on someone with a name and a face, not a semi anonymous group.

The PL know full well that this will blow over and no one will have the balls to challenge how things are; that suits them and it suits the top 6.

As for the Twitter reaction; the more I think about it, the more that needed saying - complaining to, and ultimately getting fobbed off, by the powers that be just does not work.

What you have now is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction, amongst what seems like a majority of supporters, and then you have the self appointed guardians of the game, like Neville and Carragher, controlling the narrative and trying to drown out the discontent.

Football democracy in action, a few million pissed off supporters being lectured to by two c * n t s in a TV studio.

Roll on the new Regulator.
Click to expand...

onionz
 
radfordinlondon said:
yea but you don't need it at all if you don't fook about with the rules in the first place. we managed a 120 years or so without it for offside.
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Agree, get shot of it all and allow the referee to be the sole arbiter of decision making.

One other change I’d make, get more women refs into the game.
I’d say as skilled and proficient as any male ref, with a USP of tempering the impetuous nature of men’s football.

Let’s face it, most ballers are overgrown kids, and the one person they have to listen to is their mum.
Why not use that psychological crutch and make them, properly, respect the ref.
 
radfordinlondon said:
yea but you don't need it at all if you don't fook about with the rules in the first place. we managed a 120 years or so without it for offside.
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Camera every metre on each side of the ground. Select the cameras you need and it’s done. Cameras only have to be good enough that you can get a clear image. Not a difficult thing to fix if you want to…
 
Right from the very first few minutes of the Everton game I thought that the referee was giving them anything that he could. When faced with Sean Dyche constantly throwing his arms in the air and moaning at the 4th official over absolutely every decision that does not go in his favour, or, alternatively possibly upsetting the meek and mild Nuno, it's little wonder that weaker referees are swayed. This is why it is so important for the Forest faithful to get at referees at the city ground even if they appear to be fair.
 
BlackGold said:
Agree, get shot of it all and allow the referee to be the sole arbiter of decision making.

One other change I’d make, get more women refs into the game.
I’d say as skilled and proficient as any male ref, with a USP of tempering the impetuous nature of men’s football.

Let’s face it, most ballers are overgrown kids, and the one person they have to listen to is their mum.
Why not use that psychological crutch and make them, properly, respect the ref.
Click to expand...

not against women or var but it's crap for offside and crap for the stuff it should be good for, like making refs play to the rules, or over turning a card offence when clearly wrong, or giving penalties when they should be given etc etc
 
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