FFP charges?

[BlackGold]

That's what I was saying but as Pooey said not sure if the sales count in the correct accounting year.

I think you're right and isn't that the point with BJ?

If we had accepted Atletico's bid (and brennan agreed) on 30 June, the E50m would have been accrued against 2022/2023 figure and negated the £34.5m we were over?

Therefore, sell Murillo for £50m before 30 June, it accrues against season 23/24?

 

[Lienking]

Lienking - maybe Danilo was important. The rest? I’m not certain

Felipe ? Navas ? Wood ? Not so much from the others but we also signed, Scarpa, Shelvey and Ayew who all made appearances for us. Plus of course we could have sold Johnson in the January window, and lost the contribution he made.

 

[in_the_top_one]

I think you're right and isn't that the point with BJ?

If we had accepted Atletico's bid (and brennan agreed) on 30 June, the E50m would have been accrued against 2022/2023 figure and negated the £34.5m we were over?

Therefore, sell Murillo for £50m before 30 June, it accrues against season 23/24?

But, as we've seen, that isn't easy.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I think you're right and isn't that the point with BJ?

If we had accepted Atletico's bid (and brennan agreed) on 30 June, the E50m would have been accrued against 2022/2023 figure and negated the £34.5m we were over?

Therefore, sell Murillo for £50m before 30 June, it accrues against season 23/24?

Yes

 

[seasider red]

I've just been reading through some of the overnight & earlier morning posts & it's good to see a more balanced point of view coming through. I believe most of think that PL rules are unfit for purpose and do anything towards creating any sort of level playing field.
The simple fact however is that while those rules are there they will be policed, we knew what the rules were and what the consequences of not abiding by them might be, and chose to tread the path we have.
The club claim they have been let down by the prem league with who they had "a constant dialogue" throughout and have led us to believe all that Johnno stuff was done with PL approval, but when it's come to it they don't seem able to demonstrate that satisfactorily.
No one comes out of this debacle with any credit, the PL it appears wanted an 8 point deduction which is ridiculous, snd we for our part have tried & failed to bend the rules. Personally I feel let down by the hierarchy of the club more than the PL as i agree with a previous post that we were economical with the truth and misled the fans. Someone at the club signed off on the deals knowing the ramifications. I don't mind a gamble any more or any less than anyone else, but I am not so keen on the guardians of our club gambling the way they did with the future & reputation of our club.
As other have said it is now down to the coaching staff & players to dig the club hierarchy out of the mire by knuckling down, showing the necessary fight , determination & skill to actually win some football. Sadly I'm not sure I've seen it within this group to show they can do it, but if we can't get 2 more points than Luton & Everton get another deduction we might just get away with it

 

[in_the_top_one]

The following statement from the commission as reported in The Athletic, IMO has us not really warranting an appeal...

Atletico Madrid made a £42.9million bid for Johnson via an email entitled “Offer” on June 30, but stated it was dependent on the Spanish club selling an unnamed player first. Forest rejected the offer, emailing back to say they wanted £55.8m. But then, for reasons unexplained, it was never followed up.

So why did Forest, in the commission’s findings, do “little to market (Johnson) proactively”?

Ross Wilson, Forest’s chief football officer, did speak to several English clubs, including Manchester United, Manchester City, Tottenham Hotspur, Brentford, Crystal Palace and Aston Villa. None, however, made an official bid until Brentford came in with a £32.5m offer (July 21), followed by one of £35m (July 24) and, finally, £40m (August 28).

All were turned down and Johnson’s move to Tottenham only went through late in the evening on September 1 — transfer deadline day. They were, the commission was told, “sailing close to the wind”. Forest called it a “near miss” or “golden mitigation” but that two-month period was critical in terms of the club being punished. The new season was underway and Johnson played in their first four games of it, including a 2-1 Premier League win against Sheffield United. It was, according to the commission, a clear and unfair sporting advantage.

Seems very clear now that we shouldn't have played him at the start of the season. That's aggravating.

However, that aside, since we had already missed the deadline there's not much difference between the start and end of the window in terms of sporting advantage. Their ruling is all about how it looks to other clubs rather than the essence of p&s. That's the only weakness I can see in their argument.


No idea why we spent so long talking about financial adjustments after the deadline. Always seemed inapplicable to me.

 

[BlackGold]

But, as we've seen, that isn't easy.

indeed.

After last season's debacle, and distance to the magical £83m debt, then perhaps Murillo will be sold under a figure the fanbase (and more importantly, the club) deem acceptable...say 30/35m.

 

[stenroach]

indeed.

After last season's debacle, and distance to the magical £83m debt, then perhaps Murillo will be sold under a figure the fanbase (and more importantly, the club) deem acceptable...say 30/35m.

No sod knows what the figure will be, we've still got the Mangala dosh to go on as well.

 

[in_the_top_one]

I am cross with the club about not being more proactive about the sale and misleading us regarding the magic email. But I can't get too angry about the general business model or them "sailing close to the wind". I think that's an unfair criticism because it is absolutely essential. You buy, you sell, and the fluctuations will put you on track to be over and under with each transaction all the time. The diagnosis from the CFO that we were on course to fail unless we sold is sound advice but with an obvious solution that everyone had agreed to.


The mistake was relying on a sale within the first two weeks of summer, which was always unlikely for such a big transfer and the ego of an owner who thought he was worth more [at that point of the window, he wasn't].

 

[Apollyon]

If Everton get more points deducted for this season then we will next season. It's not something we want to hope for

The rules conveniently change by then. It will be interesting to see if Leicester, who have also breached, are deducted points.

The EPL have made a right mess of it.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

The rules conveniently change by then. It will be interesting to see if Leicester, who have also breached, are deducted points.

The EPL have made a right mess of it.

No, we'll be punished for this year's 3 year cycle under the current rules which run to June 30th

 

[ZedRed]

What a fucking mess of a club we are.
Ignoring all the warnings and leaving ourselves in a position where we were just hoping for an offer for Brennan seem to be the things that have fucked us. Decisions we made, rather than circumstances we couldn't avoid.
The problem is, if heads roll because of this, they will be the wrong ones, because with EM they always are.

EM simply has to get the fuck out of our club.

He's an imbecile.

 

[BlackGold]

No sod knows what the figure will be, we've still got the Mangala dosh to go on as well.

Presumably the loan fee - £10m - is already accrued, and the IC stated the remainder (IF Lyon take up the option, they're not obligated in doing so) is only £15m.
Had a look at his record there, and whilst he had a few minutes in a 5 game stretch, he's been out of the team over their last two matches.
A report i read was a bit vague as to his absence. Maybe its injury related...but, maybe, the club just don't think he's good enough.

Its been suggested this seasons debt is between 12-17m, and presumably that would only increase.

In short, another sale is required even if Mangala is sold.

 

[Polly 433]

According to report all PL teams allowed £100m loss due to covid. NFFC, as a championship side, allowed £2.5 m. That seems fair.

 

[in_the_top_one]

indeed.

After last season's debacle, and distance to the magical £83m debt, then perhaps Murillo will be sold under a figure the fanbase (and more importantly, the club) deem acceptable...say 30/35m.

Yes. This is exactly what happens if you rely on sales then. The players - whoever they are - simply aren't worth as much that week as they are in the final week of the window.
And for our players, they're worth even less because everyone knows (or are reasonably able to assume) we lose more points if we don't sell before the end of June.

This approach may have been necessary as we joined the premier league. Hopefully we can ride this out and get that one transfer window ahead of the game so it doesn't affect us because we have some contingency. Two windows is better in the long run so you aren't dependent on selling a player like murillo in January, which is also pretty awful.

 

[sherwood]

Reflecting on it from yesterday. We knew we would breach, we were warned by our own finance people and continued to spend and not sell or even try to - Vrentos got the nod from Marianakis to sell Johnson only a couple of days before the end of the window. May not have got a deal in place in that time.

So did we gamble? Take the hit by buying a squad that would have us clear of the drop zone by enough points? Risky but it is a plan.

It perhaps explains why there was so much pressure to deliver something other than just about surviving particularly this season as we needed a bit of distance.

But then we have potentially repeated the same again if as others believe we will breach again. Or are we selling before the end of June this time? Would this make us compliant?

I am applying the "method in the madness" theory. It is just so hard to except that this is just utter incompetence!

But fook me the recruitment stinks doesn't it? All that wasted money.

 

[toms]

I've just been reading through some of the overnight & earlier morning posts & it's good to see a more balanced point of view coming through. I believe most of think that PL rules are unfit for purpose and do anything towards creating any sort of level playing field.
The simple fact however is that while those rules are there they will be policed, we knew what the rules were and what the consequences of not abiding by them might be, and chose to tread the path we have.
The club claim they have been let down by the prem league with who they had "a constant dialogue" throughout and have led us to believe all that Johnno stuff was done with PL approval, but when it's come to it they don't seem able to demonstrate that satisfactorily.
No one comes out of this debacle with any credit, the PL it appears wanted an 8 point deduction which is ridiculous, snd we for our part have tried & failed to bend the rules. Personally I feel let down by the hierarchy of the club more than the PL as i agree with a previous post that we were economical with the truth and misled the fans. Someone at the club signed off on the deals knowing the ramifications. I don't mind a gamble any more or any less than anyone else, but I am not so keen on the guardians of our club gambling the way they did with the future & reputation of our club.
As other have said it is now down to the coaching staff & players to dig the club hierarchy out of the mire by knuckling down, showing the necessary fight , determination & skill to actually win some football. Sadly I'm not sure I've seen it within this group to show they can do it, but if we can't get 2 more points than Luton & Everton get another deduction we might just get away with it

Top post

 

[stenroach]

Presumably the loan fee - £10m - is already accrued, and the IC stated the remainder (IF Lyon take up the option, they're not obligated in doing so) is only £15m.
Had a look at his record there, and whilst he had a few minutes in a 5 game stretch, he's been out of the team over their last two matches.
A report i read was a bit vague as to his absence. Maybe its injury related...but, maybe, the club just don't think he's good enough.

Its been suggested this seasons debt is between 12-17m, and presumably that would only increase.

In short, another sale is required even if Mangala is sold.

We've still got other loans to go, Worral,Dennis etc, plus a few contracts ending.
Depends on what league we are in, if championship I wouldn't worry as there will be a lot go and a lot of $$$ in the coffers.

 

[Barry Goldie]

Therefore, sell Murillo for £50m before 30 June, it accrues against season 23/24?

This is just another bullshit affect of the rules favouring the elite. Yeah let's just put the lower clubs in a situation where they have to sell their best players to the elite, a player we have on a long contract who's value is only increasing with time. I don't want to sell murrilo if we stay up thank you I want to see another season minimum out of him. What's the point of we can't get a bit of enjoyment out of seeing talents like him develop.

Oh and while we are at it we will make you sell him early by insertion of an arbitrary deadline which will lower the value you get and also immediately let other clubs low ball offers as they know you have to sell the crown jewels.

Yeah I'm fucked off with the ridiculous recruitment and wasted money. I mean how many million did Arter take over that period he's directly fucking contributed to this loss as well but really wtf was the shelvey signing all about if we knew we were close to the limits.

I am more infuriated by the rules though as every single way you look at it they benefit the elite. People say well you signed up to them but what choice do we have. Say no and then what happens?

 

[sherwood]

Unless we sell some jewels before 30th June to keep within PSR.

Could we sell to another club before the end of June, then buy them back soon after in a new accounting period for a little sweetener?

Oly too obvious but there might be a club looking to make a few quid for a shady deal....haha