Fans Forum

[Girthquake]

The type of conversation and honesty you want just isn't going to happen publicly with the fans.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to hear the conversation you are asking for but pragmatically it's never going to be on the cards. They'd sooner not have a forum than be so honest as it's Pandora box.

Suppose you're right.

We can still dream though.

 

[jeffs right]

You lot still talking shite then?
Still stuck on your Cook out agenda ffs?
still want everything to happen today, no patience, no balls no nothing?

Take a look at it properly if you possibly can.
Compare to last season....
Is Marshall better than Walton?
Is Mulgrew better than Fox and that Swedish bloke?
Does anyone doubt Williams?
Is Mcleod better than Gibson?
Is the squad stronger for us owning Robinson rather than borrowing him?

i can’t believe too many of you miserable buggers would say no to any of those.

It is fairly obvious that goals are the problem right now. Why is that? Is it because we aren’t actually creating many chances? Why is that? Could it be that Byrne, Massey and Jacobs aren’t doing what they are supposed to do? Did Cook sign any of those three?

As Cook clearly stated the calibre of player is an issue on Tuesday evening. Royles choice of one player to sign was a creative player. It is pretty obvious where they believe the problem to be. You lot should be able to work it out yourselves if you could stop your perpetual wailing about whichever manager is in charge.

I predict the next few transfer windows will address these areas short on quality. Until we do, the reality is that once again (as stated at the forum) our aim will be to stay up, a target of beating last seasons points total shows an improvement and will achieve the objective.

A change of manager will disrupt that building process, you all know it, it’s obvious. There is no need whatsoever to change the manager at the moment. You miserable sods need to start being part of the solution not part of the problem. A club like ours needs everyone on the same side and the vast majority are.

You lot need to take a look at yourselves and decide wether you support our club or not!

11 wins out of the last 50 matches is a pretty poor showing. 13 months of crap. It's hardly a record to keep supporters and fans jumping up and down ecstaticlly and that's before we look how ugly our football as become.

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

Been googling have we?

Gerrymandering is not just about votes. It is pushing favour to one particular side, or party.
In the case of the forum, would they have actually read out any "i think Cook should resign" comments out? No. As per usual, it was choreographed to suit.

No
And
No

I have no doubt it was organised, be honest it is only what you would do if you were running the club.

Choreography, damn, I missed the dancing as well.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Jeff,
So having had a season in the division and noting the weaknesses, shouldn’t we be addressing those weaknesses?
I would argue that process has started and has started well.
The club has taken the sensible approach but is building more slowly than some of you would like. Building quickly requires more money than we have, and isn’t always the best way anyway.
If you get the hysterical reaction you want and we change the manager, how exactly will that help? There will still be the same players, and the same weaknesses.
It would be much better if everyone was onboard with the new owners carefully considered plans, and support the cause. That’s our job as supporters after all.
As I’ve already stated the problem is creating chances so we don’t score the goals we’d all like to see. Obviously the football will seem more ‘ugly’ than it really is without those goals. Once the weaknesses further addressed then, and only then can you seriously start to question the manager.
In the meantime reacting to each individual result is pretty pointless and extremely tedious.

 

[Girthquake]

Jeff,
So having had a season in the division and noting the weaknesses, shouldn’t we be addressing those weaknesses?
I would argue that process has started and has started well.
The club has taken the sensible approach but is building more slowly than some of you would like. Building quickly requires more money than we have, and isn’t always the best way anyway.
If you get the hysterical reaction you want and we change the manager, how exactly will that help? There will still be the same players, and the same weaknesses.
It would be much better if everyone was onboard with the new owners carefully considered plans, and support the cause. That’s our job as supporters after all.
As I’ve already stated the problem is creating chances so we don’t score the goals we’d all like to see. Obviously the football will seem more ‘ugly’ than it really is without those goals. Once the weaknesses further addressed then, and only then can you seriously start to question the manager.
In the meantime reacting to each individual result is pretty pointless and extremely tedious.

No-one disagreed with any of that, but you said we were talking shit?
Literally, none of the points you just made warranted your initial response and you have said nothing of relation to what you initially responded to.

Irrespective of the building process, 11 wins in 50 is objectively shite, and not answering straight forward questions when again it cannot be argued that you're doing dire, well that's is poor form...that's all what was said.

No need to get your handbag out.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

But questions were indeed answered, and answered honestly.
The miserable moaners in this place had made their minds before the forum had even started. It didn’t matter what the club did or said, the responses since the forum would have been exactly the same.
We all want it to better on the field, of course, but until 46 games have been played we won’t know if we’ve done better than last season or not.
Its of no use whatsoever claiming we are already relegated, the wailers were saying that most of last season yet were comfortably wrong.
They cant even accept that it was comfortable ffs. Why?

 

[Girthquake]

This is the last I'll say:

Probably because despite our run of good form at the end of last season and gaining some unexpected victories - They haven't currently seen any progress with the results this season despite spending £6+ Million since to improve the squad.

I think they are some fair grievances.

 

[96Tav]

Forum shmorum.

Cook should be judged on performances and results. Lets see how we go on, starting from Sunday. No excuses, no 'we didnt expect much from these games..', thats lame. A game is a game. Lets see how we perform and how we do.

I will never like, or agree with his comments regarding 442 though. I cant understand coaches and managers negativity towards it. When I was a kid, the only ones who played one up front and packed midfield, were the Italians, when their league was notoriously defence based.
You have two up front...a big man...we have Moore, with with either Garner or Joffy alongside him. Its crying out for it. Personally, I'd sacrifice Massey for the extra striker to feed off Moore. Its the only way for us to change things for me, or else Moore will be flicking on to himself for ever more.

 

[moonay]

...... I will never like, or agree with his comments regarding 442 though. I cant understand coaches and managers negativity towards it. When I was a kid, the only ones who played one up front and packed midfield, were the Italians, when their league was notoriously defence based.
........ .

Yep. Guardiola, Klopp, Wenger, Mancini, Venables, Michels Martinez,........ bloody know-nowts.

A formation is only ever as good as the execution.

 

[charlz54]

He ski,he didn’t answer my question....he just laughed it off....actually I feel quite miffed by it to be honest and have lost a bit of respect for Cooky as a result

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Bullshit. There was no mention of players in the questions.
Wether there was on the piece of paper, I don’t know, perhaps you did. Perhaps you’re pissed your question was laughed out by the entire room.

You've just shown that you can neither read or listen properly again. I told you I did not ask the question about the midfielders passing sideways (I don't actually agree with the sentiment) and Chris Milo did read the full question from the card which as i correctly pointed out did reference Morsy, Evans and Williams. The full fans forum is up on the website so you can go and check it back as you clearly forgot. Maybe get your facts right before acusing others of doing what you are doing - talking 'bullshit'.

The overuse of laughing emojis does kind of fit with the self own you just did though.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Official site has now updated the forum video with the previously missing final 30 mins included.

Overall it is 1h 40 mins if memory serves me correctly. The main stuff has probably been mentioned on the thread but there was plenty discussed that hasn't been touched on. So worth a listen if you didn't go.

 

[N"Zogbia's fan club]

I'm suprised at some of the negativity from the forum - there were parts that deserved critiquing but i think perspective is being lost - what did everyone expect going in? I think we got exactly what we expected - it was a PR exercise and gave fans the chance to ask some questions but they were always going to avoid anything controversial.

The club isn't going to make anything harder for themselves by washing any dirty laundry in public, i can imagine they gave what were agreed in advance as the appropriate answers for the situation but privately they might hold different positions. Say the board is unhappy with any aspect of the results or management they wont tell us in such a setting, neither will the manager bury himself, his players or the board if they feel something is going wrong.

I was a little dissapointed in some senses myself but i didn't come away angry or upset - it was exactly what it was planned to be and i'd prefer them to give us some interaction like this and hold back rather than just avoid it all together. I'm as frustrated as anyone with the results, performances and style of football and think a change is overdue - but even if i disagree with the choice i can see a trail of logic why IEC are currently sticking with at the moment. Ultimately they are the ones funding us to the tune of apparently 1m a month they are the ones who will lose a fortune if we get relegated - it's their choice and they will be the ones to shoulder the cost. It is our club too and it's not been the most enjoyable to watch over much the past 12 months or so i get the frustration but think that we need to try and not lose all perspective and start to feel our owners are disrespecting us as fans in one way or another. IEC have been a massive net positive so far and i think they don't deserve to get some of the stick they are getting - we can disagee with the ownerships decision on the manager without thinking they are bad owners.

A realistic post. Thank you.

 

[jeffs right]

Yep. Guardiola, Klopp, Wenger, Mancini, Venables, Michels Martinez,........ bloody know-nowts.

A formation is only ever as good as the execution.

Or as good as the players or the suitability of the players to play at a level. Presently at this level we do not have the players to get the best out of the 4-2-3-1 Cook favours so it becomes a more defensive and somewhat boring set up. At league one we executed it very well against poorer sides and it looked good especially in away games ironically. If we had had a similar record over the last 13 months then yes we would be pissed off but a 4-4-2, or 4,4,1,1 or even a 4-3-3 would have at least looked at lot better on the eye. Why no real wide men beating defenders and putting crosses in to a proven striker the size of Moore is just baffling.
No one would say the managers you quoted were know nowts but even Martinez changed his stubborn ways at times and when he did change they were his best moments.

 

[SwedishLatic]

What formation you are playing is not what matters it is what you do with the ball and without it. 4-4-2 with wide wingers is imo outdated and old way of playing the game.
I cant think of one team that has success playing like that at top level. Plenty of teams play 4-4-2 but it is not a magical solution to a problem without being good tactically, infact all three teams we beat this season came and played 4-4-2 at the DW.
And if i am honest, when Windass plays as a nr 10 it sure looks like it is 2 up front rather than 4-2-3-1.

I have not watched the fans forum yet but was there any questions regarding scouting and recruitment and why we seem so focused on signing players from the British leagues and not from abroad?

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Any road, we’ve a tough run of games coming up, games we could easily lose. We will certainly drop points and maybe lose 6 on the bounce.
im going to leave this negatronic whingefest to enjoy that spell. I’ll just go and take it all in, enjoy the football. Life goes on. I hope you all get better soon.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

What formation you are playing is not what matters it is what you do with the ball and without it. 4-4-2 with wide wingers is imo outdated and old way of playing the game.
I cant think of one team that has success playing like that at top level. Plenty of teams play 4-4-2 but it is not a magical solution to a problem without being good tactically, infact all three teams we beat this season came and played 4-4-2 at the DW.
And if i am honest, when Windass plays as a nr 10 it sure looks like it is 2 up front rather than 4-2-3-1.

I have not watched the fans forum yet but was there any questions regarding scouting and recruitment and why we seem so focused on signing players from the British leagues and not from abroad?

Leicester won the league playing 4-4-2. It's not out dated it's just not the current trend in football and it can be played very effectively if you do it right. Cook actually said as much himself before saying he doesn't have players to play it. But I agree it's not a fix all but if you are going long ball and bypassing midfield like we do it would likely work better not having extra man in middle since we by pass them so often and having that man up top closer to target man to feed off knock downs. So I think there is a logic in wanting to push the extra man up top from middle if style of play isn't changing to increase it's chance of working.

No mention of why we haven't been dipping into foreign markets in past - but they said moving forward we plan to do a lot more foreign scouting as those players are now working out generally cheaper than the British counterparts. Also the scouting involves less actual going out and searching and more analysing and interpreting the vast amounts of data available to all clubs via extensive databases.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Any road, we’ve a tough run of games coming up, games we could easily lose. We will certainly drop points and maybe lose 6 on the bounce.
im going to leave this negatronic whingefest to enjoy that spell. I’ll just go and take it all in, enjoy the football. Life goes on. I hope you all get better soon.

Must be hard embarrassing yourself so much so often. This thread has been a car crash for you.

 

[Arthur_Itis]

Or as good as the players or the suitability of the players to play at a level. Presently at this level we do not have the players to get the best out of the 4-2-3-1 Cook favours so it becomes a more defensive and somewhat boring set up. At league one we executed it very well against poorer sides and it looked good especially in away games ironically. If we had had a similar record over the last 13 months then yes we would be pissed off but a 4-4-2, or 4,4,1,1 or even a 4-3-3 would have at least looked at lot better on the eye. Why no real wide men beating defenders and putting crosses in to a proven striker the size of Moore is just baffling.
No one would say the managers you quoted were know nowts but even Martinez changed his stubborn ways at times and when he did change they were his best moments.

Jeff, did you attend the forum or watch the vid yet ?, not a dig, just trying to put your post into perspective.

Cook said his preference was 4-2-3-1 but they had tried 4-3-3 and also 5 at the back.
He also said that Robinson (in particular) has continually got into good forward positions this season, but that his end product isn't there yet. I took from that comment that it is something they are working on and let's hope they are cos if Robinson starts to regularly and consistently deliver quality balls into the box you'll get some of what you want, Moore will have more to feed on, the team will benefit and Robinson's value will sky rocket.

 

[Roy Race]

Jeff, did you attend the forum or watch the vid yet ?, not a dig, just trying to put your post into perspective.

Cook said his preference was 4-2-3-1 but they had tried 4-3-3 and also 5 at the back.
He also said that Robinson (in particular) has continually got into good forward positions this season, but that his end product isn't there yet. I took from that comment that it is something they are working on and let's hope they are cos if Robinson starts to regularly and consistently deliver quality balls into the box you'll get some of what you want, Moore will have more to feed on, the team will benefit and Robinson's value will sky rocket.

For me that comment about Robinson could well apply to a few in the team at the moment and its what has let us down in a number of games.

Many go on about us playing long ball and yes we do go direct at times but we do play some good stuff in the channels and the full backs and wingers get in some very dangerous positions but the majority of the time the final ball is often poor.