Ex-Imps Discussion Thread

[clanfordimp]

Tom Pett talking about how he and Lee Frecklington were made to train on their own while at Lincoln under Appleton. @clanfordimp and I were pretty heavily criticised for making up rumours when we raised this a few years ago.

Robins midfielder Tom Pett's story so far

Experienced midfielder Tom Pett became Darrell Clarke's first signing for Cheltenham Town in November

www.google.com

Yes libertine, I was told by the Chairman that he knew nothing about it and nothing had been said to him either by Liam or Appleton but they were hardly likely to were they. And to be fair Liam wouldn't be at the training ground on a daily basis so he wasn't likely to know and i dont think either player had spoken to anyone regarding the situation but it was true because it came from Tom himself.

He had a driving offence and was on a an awareness course and my son was on the same course and they sat next to each other and chatted all day and was fully open and candid with what he said.

Both Tom and Freck were not treated with respect and in the right way by Appleton.
Appleton largely ignored them both and they had to train on their own most of the time and he said that he sometimes got on in the last 5 minutes or so of a training match. Freck even had his GPS taken off him.

Tom was upset at his treatment by Appleton. He had an opportunity to leave to go to MK Dons but this was around the covid time and it had fell through partly because he didn't want to upskittle the family at this time.

He said he could understand a manager coming in and not fancying them and not being part of their plans but said it didn't matter how hard he and Freck trained Appleton just ignored them and didn't even have the curtesy to explain the situation to them, which he said he would of excepted but instead Appleton didn't tell them anything and ignored them.

Those of you who are gullible enough to just take in and drink up everything the club feeds you and that they tell you the gospel truth all the time take heed of this story.

It's not a massive story but it's 100% true and these type of things do go on in clubs but it's not the way Freck should of ended his career at the club as a local lad and someone who had given magnificent service to this club.

Yes, Appleton gave the club one of its greatest seasons ever but he had a lot to learn when it came down to the man management of (some) of the players.

 

[PerthImp]

BBC article about Toff

Toffolo feared betting charges would end career

Nottingham Forest's Harry Toffolo says he feared his career had been ended when charged with betting breaches.

www.bbc.co.uk

I’m so pleased for Toff. Genuine guy and fully deserves his chance to further his career. So glad the authorities recognised all the factors surrounding his period of gambling. What hurts you makes you stronger Toff. Hope you go on to have a tremendous career in the top flight.

 

[PerthImp]

Yes libertine, I was told by the Chairman that he knew nothing about it and nothing had been said to him either by Liam or Appleton but they were hardly likely to were they. And to be fair Liam wouldn't be at the training ground on a daily basis so he wasn't likely to know and i dont think either player had spoken to anyone regarding the situation but it was true because it came from Tom himself.

He had a driving offence and was on a an awareness course and my son was on the same course and they sat next to each other and chatted all day and was fully open and candid with what he said.

Both Tom and Freck were not treated with respect and in the right way by Appleton.
Appleton largely ignored them both and they had to train on their own most of the time and he said that he sometimes got on in the last 5 minutes or so of a training match. Freck even had his GPS taken off him.

Tom was upset at his treatment by Appleton. He had an opportunity to leave to go to MK Dons but this was around the covid time and it had fell through partly because he didn't want to upskittle the family at this time.

He said he could understand a manager coming in and not fancying them and not being part of their plans but said it didn't matter how hard he and Freck trained Appleton just ignored them and didn't even have the curtesy to explain the situation to them, which he said he would of excepted but instead Appleton didn't tell them anything and ignored them.

Those of you who are gullible enough to just take in and drink up everything the club feeds you and that they tell you the gospel truth all the time take heed of this story.

It's not a massive story but it's 100% true and these type of things do go on in clubs but it's not the way Freck should of ended his career at the club as a local lad and someone who had given magnificent service to this club.

Yes, Appleton gave the club one of its greatest seasons ever but he had a lot to learn when it came down to the man management of (some) of the players.

It takes all sorts eh. Funny MA never did relate to the fans and this seems to show he struggled with man management in players as well. Just shows you can be a tremendous coach but the game is all about people and life, both on and off the pitch.

 

[SAToffeeImp]

Yes libertine, I was told by the Chairman that he knew nothing about it and nothing had been said to him either by Liam or Appleton but they were hardly likely to were they. And to be fair Liam wouldn't be at the training ground on a daily basis so he wasn't likely to know and i dont think either player had spoken to anyone regarding the situation but it was true because it came from Tom himself.

He had a driving offence and was on a an awareness course and my son was on the same course and they sat next to each other and chatted all day and was fully open and candid with what he said.

Both Tom and Freck were not treated with respect and in the right way by Appleton.
Appleton largely ignored them both and they had to train on their own most of the time and he said that he sometimes got on in the last 5 minutes or so of a training match. Freck even had his GPS taken off him.

Tom was upset at his treatment by Appleton. He had an opportunity to leave to go to MK Dons but this was around the covid time and it had fell through partly because he didn't want to upskittle the family at this time.

He said he could understand a manager coming in and not fancying them and not being part of their plans but said it didn't matter how hard he and Freck trained Appleton just ignored them and didn't even have the curtesy to explain the situation to them, which he said he would of excepted but instead Appleton didn't tell them anything and ignored them.

Those of you who are gullible enough to just take in and drink up everything the club feeds you and that they tell you the gospel truth all the time take heed of this story.

It's not a massive story but it's 100% true and these type of things do go on in clubs but it's not the way Freck should of ended his career at the club as a local lad and someone who had given magnificent service to this club.

Yes, Appleton gave the club one of its greatest seasons ever but he had a lot to learn when it came down to the man management of (some) of the players.

I am not going to go back and see what I said back in 2019 or 2020 but I would not have said anything that was not truthful.

Here are some facts to take into account:
1. Tom was injured when Michael took over and wasn't available to play until the middle of October when he was on the bench against Peterborough. He came off the bench in that game and then was given a chance to start away at Gillingham in November. Rightly or wrongly after those performances and from what Michael saw in training, he didn't believe Tom was for him. It was not the view of Michael when he first came into the club (at least from what he told us) and definitely had nothing to do with slashing budgets.
2. Lee was also injured when Michael took over and the first time he was ready to play was against Rotherham in November. He played just over 60 minutes and immediately got injured again. I get to see the player availability stats and Lee's availability for training and playing at that time was rock bottom, about half the availability of the next worse player Ben Coker. Michael hence decided he could not rely on Lee. Lee's lack of availability started way before Michael took over with him making just 1 start and 2 substitute appearances in the last 25 games under Danny and Nicky.
3. Both players had the chance to leave the club in the January transfer window without any cut in the remuneration they would have earned for the final months of their contracts and both decided to stay nevertheless. Make of that what you want but I certainly don't remember Covid being a reason for any decision as early as January 2020.

I suppose it is always easier to look for a scapegoat and blame others for your own misfortune or failures.

I am not saying the way Michael dealt with all players was ideal (it simply wasn't) but hearing only one side of the story without considering any of the facts or knowing exactly what happened doesn't give you the true picture especially when you have a bone to pick. There is more that could be said but is best kept private.

It is sad that Tom's last season with us ended so disappointingly. He was one of the nicest players and best professionals I have had the opportunity to interact with in my time with the club.

 

[Ruskingtony]

Without getting into the discussion to how Pett was or wasn't treated by the club.
I would just like to say I always thought he was a decent player and performed well for the club.
With regards to Managers it is quite interesting how often a new Manager can come in and not rate somebody who was highly thought of by the previous Manager. Happens all the time.

 

[bonsonshead]

Yes libertine, I was told by the Chairman that he knew nothing about it and nothing had been said to him either by Liam or Appleton but they were hardly likely to were they. And to be fair Liam wouldn't be at the training ground on a daily basis so he wasn't likely to know and i dont think either player had spoken to anyone regarding the situation but it was true because it came from Tom himself.

He had a driving offence and was on a an awareness course and my son was on the same course and they sat next to each other and chatted all day and was fully open and candid with what he said.

Both Tom and Freck were not treated with respect and in the right way by Appleton.
Appleton largely ignored them both and they had to train on their own most of the time and he said that he sometimes got on in the last 5 minutes or so of a training match. Freck even had his GPS taken off him.

Tom was upset at his treatment by Appleton. He had an opportunity to leave to go to MK Dons but this was around the covid time and it had fell through partly because he didn't want to upskittle the family at this time.

He said he could understand a manager coming in and not fancying them and not being part of their plans but said it didn't matter how hard he and Freck trained Appleton just ignored them and didn't even have the curtesy to explain the situation to them, which he said he would of excepted but instead Appleton didn't tell them anything and ignored them.

Those of you who are gullible enough to just take in and drink up everything the club feeds you and that they tell you the gospel truth all the time take heed of this story.

It's not a massive story but it's 100% true and these type of things do go on in clubs but it's not the way Freck should of ended his career at the club as a local lad and someone who had given magnificent service to this club.

Yes, Appleton gave the club one of its greatest seasons ever but he had a lot to learn when it came down to the man management of (some) of the players.

Yes, I can confirm that's true at least from Freck's side, straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[SAToffeeImp]

Without getting into the discussion to how Pett was or wasn't treated by the club.
I would just like to say I always thought he was a decent player and performed well for the club.
With regards to Managers it is quite interesting how often a new Manager can come in and not rate somebody who was highly thought of by the previous Manager. Happens all the time.

It doesn't only happen with a new manager. Lots of stories how Sir Alex fell out with very successful players he had signed or brought into the team. And the same happened with Danny and Nicky. We had to move on players (and sometimes it could be costly) they had fallen out with or because our ambitions had moved forward and those players no longer delivered what they now wanted.

 

[clanfordimp]

I am not going to go back and see what I said back in 2019 or 2020 but I would not have said anything that was not truthful.

Here are some facts to take into account:
1. Tom was injured when Michael took over and wasn't available to play until the middle of October when he was on the bench against Peterborough. He came off the bench in that game and then was given a chance to start away at Gillingham in November. Rightly or wrongly after those performances and from what Michael saw in training, he didn't believe Tom was for him. It was not the view of Michael when he first came into the club (at least from what he told us) and definitely had nothing to do with slashing budgets.
2. Lee was also injured when Michael took over and the first time he was ready to play was against Rotherham in November. He played just over 60 minutes and immediately got injured again. I get to see the player availability stats and Lee's availability for training and playing at that time was rock bottom, about half the availability of the next worse player Ben Coker. Michael hence decided he could not rely on Lee. Lee's lack of availability started way before Michael took over with him making just 1 start and 2 substitute appearances in the last 25 games under Danny and Nicky.
3. Both players had the chance to leave the club in the January transfer window without any cut in the remuneration they would have earned for the final months of their contracts and both decided to stay nevertheless. Make of that what you want but I certainly don't remember Covid being a reason for any decision as early as January 2020.

I suppose it is always easier to look for a scapegoat and blame others for your own misfortune or failures.

I am not saying the way Michael dealt with all players was ideal (it simply wasn't) but hearing only one side of the story without considering any of the facts or knowing exactly what happened doesn't give you the true picture especially when you have a bone to pick. There is more that could be said but is best kept private.

It is sad that Tom's last season with us ended so disappointingly. He was one of the nicest players and best professionals I have had the opportunity to interact with in my time with the club.

I accept what you say Clive but Michael's handling of the two players was wrong and particularly disrespectful to Lee being a local lad who came through the ranks and gave great service to this club.

Players totally understand that when a new manager comes in that they may not be their kind of player, that's part of football and the way things go. You know that Tom was a lovely guy and he said that if Michael had explained the situation to him he would of accepted it. But that didn't happen, both players were ignored and forced to train on their own and Lee had his GPS taken off him.

There maybe other factors involved that I don't know about but that doesn't excuse Michael's behaviour towards these two players.

Whatever the circumstances he should of given them the courtesy of explaining the situation to them no matter what it was and no matter what the players choose to do about it, that takes away any awkwardness from all parties and at least everyone would of been clear on where they stand. That behaviour cannot be excused in any way shape or form.

Look, I have no axe to grind with Michael, he gave us one of the best seasons this club has ever experienced but he had a dour personality, his fan engagement was poor and that obviously transferred on to how he treated some of his players.

He may have been totally different in other situations but his football eventually mirrored the way he came across to the fans.

 

[berksimps]

BBC article about Toff

Toffolo feared betting charges would end career

Nottingham Forest's Harry Toffolo says he feared his career had been ended when charged with betting breaches.

www.bbc.co.uk

Harry Stefano Toffolo

Listened to the broadcast referred to in the article; Toff comes over brilliantly. At Lincoln always was, and he still is a top bloke. It’s inspirational and quite moving to listen to a Premiership player who is quite so humble.

 

[Luke Imp]

I've never really understood the scrutiny around players training on their own. I could if on their own entailed training outside of normal training hours and/or with youth teams etc and being really awkward about it, trying to force players out, but if a manager doesn't want you involved, then that's pretty cut and dry. It's very rare a player falls out of favour and makes their way back in (and for those thinking Adelakun, that was a necessity rather than a want!). By what Clive has posted, they had a chance to leave without losing out financially but didn't chose to (understand that it comes down to location, loan/permanent etc) and if they felt they were being that harshly treated, they'd have found a way out even if it was only short term until the end of the 2019/2020 season when they were out of contract.

To be fair to Pett, he's not exactly scathing of Appleton. I thought he comes across as quite respectful of him in that interview. Of course players don't want to train on their own and away from the group but I'm sure it happens up and down the country every day. And I think we all had a decent idea that Freck rarely managed to train anyway!

 

[GoBC]

but hearing only one side of the story without considering any of the facts or knowing exactly what happened doesn't give you the true picture

Thank God someone finally pointed this out!

Thanks Clive.

Meant to say similar myself months ago, but concerned I'd be pilloried as having tinted red & white specs and 'being in bed' with the club (always amuses me, shouldn't I be these things - to some extent -after nearly half a century of support??)

 

[nlondonimp]

I've never really understood the scrutiny around players training on their own. I could if on their own entailed training outside of normal training hours and/or with youth teams etc and being really awkward about it, trying to force players out, but if a manager doesn't want you involved, then that's pretty cut and dry. It's very rare a player falls out of favour and makes their way back in (and for those thinking Adelakun, that was a necessity rather than a want!). By what Clive has posted, they had a chance to leave without losing out financially but didn't chose to (understand that it comes down to location, loan/permanent etc) and if they felt they were being that harshly treated, they'd have found a way out even if it was only short term until the end of the 2019/2020 season when they were out of contract.

To be fair to Pett, he's not exactly scathing of Appleton. I thought he comes across as quite respectful of him in that interview. Of course players don't want to train on their own and away from the group but I'm sure it happens up and down the country every day. And I think we all had a decent idea that Freck rarely managed to train anyway!

Surely the adelakun example is exactly the reason why a club our size - carrying a squad our size and often not making 7 on the bench - don’t want players ending up ostracised from the set up. You want them fully trained, and up to speed as you never know when they might be needed.

regardless of the details of adelakun, pett, freck or anyone else in the past, it would be a good lesson to learn going forward.

 

[Luke Imp]

Surely the adelakun example is exactly the reason why a club our size - carrying a squad our size and often not making 7 on the bench - don’t want players ending up ostracised from the set up. You want them fully trained, and up to speed as you never know when they might be needed.

regardless of the details of adelakun, pett, freck or anyone else in the past, it would be a good lesson to learn going forward.

I meant more in terms of a manager not seeing a player as their type of one. Adelakun got back in the side because of circumstance rather than Kennedy changing his mind on his ability (we'd have ideally moved him on in the summer anyway).

 

[cdhIMP]

I meant more in terms of a manager not seeing a player as their type of one. Adelakun got back in the side because of circumstance rather than Kennedy changing his mind on his ability (we'd have ideally moved him on in the summer anyway).

We'd probably be 3 points closer to the relegation zone without him too (Charlton).

Might be very valuable at the end of the season if the goals don't start flowing.

 

[nlondonimp]

I meant more in terms of a manager not seeing a player as their type of one. Adelakun got back in the side because of circumstance rather than Kennedy changing his mind on his ability (we'd have ideally moved him on in the summer anyway).

Again, that is exactly why you don’t ostracise a player. Manager might have decided he is not the right type - but injuries constantly remind us you might need the player at any point. You might want to move him on, but are left with him when the move doesn’t come off (Which also happens regularly).

Until we are the size of man utd, keep the contracted players ‘onside’. just good common sense really.

 

[impsimps]

I am not going to go back and see what I said back in 2019 or 2020 but I would not have said anything that was not truthful.

Here are some facts to take into account:
1. Tom was injured when Michael took over and wasn't available to play until the middle of October when he was on the bench against Peterborough. He came off the bench in that game and then was given a chance to start away at Gillingham in November. Rightly or wrongly after those performances and from what Michael saw in training, he didn't believe Tom was for him. It was not the view of Michael when he first came into the club (at least from what he told us) and definitely had nothing to do with slashing budgets.
2. Lee was also injured when Michael took over and the first time he was ready to play was against Rotherham in November. He played just over 60 minutes and immediately got injured again. I get to see the player availability stats and Lee's availability for training and playing at that time was rock bottom, about half the availability of the next worse player Ben Coker. Michael hence decided he could not rely on Lee. Lee's lack of availability started way before Michael took over with him making just 1 start and 2 substitute appearances in the last 25 games under Danny and Nicky.
3. Both players had the chance to leave the club in the January transfer window without any cut in the remuneration they would have earned for the final months of their contracts and both decided to stay nevertheless. Make of that what you want but I certainly don't remember Covid being a reason for any decision as early as January 2020.

I suppose it is always easier to look for a scapegoat and blame others for your own misfortune or failures.

I am not saying the way Michael dealt with all players was ideal (it simply wasn't) but hearing only one side of the story without considering any of the facts or knowing exactly what happened doesn't give you the true picture especially when you have a bone to pick. There is more that could be said but is best kept private.

It is sad that Tom's last season with us ended so disappointingly. He was one of the nicest players and best professionals I have had the opportunity to interact with in my time with the club.

Tom when not playing, often came into the Fan Zone and interacted, and even pointed out to me when I was trying to take a picture of him and my mate that my phone was the wrong way around ! A very friendly and fun guy. Just sorry it didnt work out for him at the end of his time with us.

 

[Red Wimp]

I've never really understood the scrutiny around players training on their own. I could if on their own entailed training outside of normal training hours and/or with youth teams etc and being really awkward about it, trying to force players out, but if a manager doesn't want you involved, then that's pretty cut and dry. It's very rare a player falls out of favour and makes their way back in (and for those thinking Adelakun, that was a necessity rather than a want!). By what Clive has posted, they had a chance to leave without losing out financially but didn't chose to (understand that it comes down to location, loan/permanent etc) and if they felt they were being that harshly treated, they'd have found a way out even if it was only short term until the end of the 2019/2020 season when they were out of contract.

To be fair to Pett, he's not exactly scathing of Appleton. I thought he comes across as quite respectful of him in that interview. Of course players don't want to train on their own and away from the group but I'm sure it happens up and down the country every day. And I think we all had a decent idea that Freck rarely managed to train anyway!

Some very high profile examples with Sancho at Man U and Worrall Forest captain very recently.

 

[German Imp]

I am not going to go back and see what I said back in 2019 or 2020 but I would not have said anything that was not truthful.

Here are some facts to take into account:
1. Tom was injured when Michael took over and wasn't available to play until the middle of October when he was on the bench against Peterborough. He came off the bench in that game and then was given a chance to start away at Gillingham in November. Rightly or wrongly after those performances and from what Michael saw in training, he didn't believe Tom was for him. It was not the view of Michael when he first came into the club (at least from what he told us) and definitely had nothing to do with slashing budgets.
2. Lee was also injured when Michael took over and the first time he was ready to play was against Rotherham in November. He played just over 60 minutes and immediately got injured again. I get to see the player availability stats and Lee's availability for training and playing at that time was rock bottom, about half the availability of the next worse player Ben Coker. Michael hence decided he could not rely on Lee. Lee's lack of availability started way before Michael took over with him making just 1 start and 2 substitute appearances in the last 25 games under Danny and Nicky.
3. Both players had the chance to leave the club in the January transfer window without any cut in the remuneration they would have earned for the final months of their contracts and both decided to stay nevertheless. Make of that what you want but I certainly don't remember Covid being a reason for any decision as early as January 2020.

I suppose it is always easier to look for a scapegoat and blame others for your own misfortune or failures.

I am not saying the way Michael dealt with all players was ideal (it simply wasn't) but hearing only one side of the story without considering any of the facts or knowing exactly what happened doesn't give you the true picture especially when you have a bone to pick. There is more that could be said but is best kept private.

It is sad that Tom's last season with us ended so disappointingly. He was one of the nicest players and best professionals I have had the opportunity to interact with in my time with the club.

Thank you Clive for being so open in the above post, seen nothing like this from any other club tbf, especially on a message board. I’m sure you get a little irritated with what you read, not necessarily on here either. Probably serves as a reminder to us all, that running a football club isn’t easy. As you say, you could say more but can’t. I will probably not post so much now, as reading that is an eye opener.
Tks

 

[johnolbe]

Thank you Clive for being so open in the above post, seen nothing like this from any other club tbf, especially on a message board. I’m sure you get a little irritated with what you read, not necessarily on here either. Probably serves as a reminder to us all, that running a football club isn’t easy. As you say, you could say more but can’t. I will probably not post so much now, as reading that is an eye opener.
Tks

I wouldn’t worry too much about your posts offending Clive mate. Not many chairmen sit with away fans and are happy to chat about the ongoing game so I’m pretty sure he understands all supporters are entitled to an opinion of anything LCFC related. If Clive only wanted to hear rose tinted opinions he certainly wouldn’t be a member of a club forum. Amongst the many things that we are forever grateful to Clive for is the way he treats us as friends and equals and the humble way he is totally at ease watching the game with us and accepting of terrace banter as any ordinary fan.

 

[Luke Imp]

Conor Coventry heading to Charlton.