Evans and Raynor | Page 4 | Vital Football

Evans and Raynor

I thought TP left for other reasons!
All I meant is it seems unlikely to me that unless Evans wants to leave or we are unable to pay him or find a budget that he agrees to work with.The fact is Scally appears to hate the interview process and all that goes with it so I find it unlikely that Scally will remove Evans.Unless Evans were to do something extraordinary bad between now and the end of the season.
 
Let's not forget that Steve Lovell with his 'old player' tag and inferior contacts book earned Gills a 13th place in L1 and himself a manager of the month award for a 12 out of 12 points January 18.
We currently sit 15th.

I love Steve Lovell, however.

We finished 13th only on the back of a terrific end to the season. And we got about 56 points which was just 5pts above the relegation zone. We were basically threatened with relegation right up till April.

Under SE we would have probably got 65 points or more last season had it concluded (PPG would indicate about 67). And currently on track to get about 62+ this season. And for the past 18 months we have been nowhere near the relegation zone. Even when we had our very poor run back in Jan, we were so far removed from the bottom 4 it was just not an issue.
 
I’m glad most people on here seem to be in the camp of “keep them, doing a good job”. That’s my view having seen our results for 18 months.

They are a divisive pair among our fan base, but like or loathe them I think most will agree we have definitely moved from relegation fodder to mid-table secure. And that is a big improvement.

So much more accurate than “that” Facebook forum where all the so called fans still believe SE is the devil incarnate and we are a worse side than previously. Beggars belief.
 
I’m glad most people on here seem to be in the camp of “keep them, doing a good job”. That’s my view having seen our results for 18 months.

They are a divisive pair among our fan base, but like or loathe them I think most will agree we have definitely moved from relegation fodder to mid-table secure. And that is a big improvement.

So much more accurate than “that” Facebook forum where all the so called fans still believe SE is the devil incarnate and we are a worse side than previously. Beggars belief.

Nothing against facebook groups but always worth considering 1) How many members 2) How many actually post 3) The opinions of the founder and whether he gets to expunge opponents.

Looked at in that light, all becomes clear.
 
I would be happy for Raynor to have a go on his own if Steve doesn’t fancy it. Not sure the style of football would change though. He has enough experience to be a manager
 
I would be happy for Raynor to have a go on his own if Steve doesn’t fancy it. Not sure the style of football would change though. He has enough experience to be a manager
That rarely works I seem to remember Ronnie Jepson for example.Evans is too big to given Raynor any real control.Appoint Raynor and the budget will be massively cut.That is the most likely reason Evans will leave in my view. But keeping Raynor in those circumstances would in my view be a mistake.
 
That rarely works I seem to remember Ronnie Jepson for example.Evans is too big to given Raynor any real control.Appoint Raynor and the budget will be massively cut.That is the most likely reason Evans will leave in my view. But keeping Raynor in those circumstances would in my view be a mistake.
I agree, he appears to be the more technical of the duo although I could be wrong....
 
Agree, but getting players under contract out the club must cost something, which however small is money out the budget that then can't be spent by SE, yet he bangs on about his small budget. He said at the fans forum when he arrived it was crucial they got the recruitment right and spent every penny of what budget they had wisely. Have they done that?IMO, no.

We must have had at least 20 loan players since SE arrival, half of those being sent back because they wern' t up to it. Yes every signing is a risk, but I'd wager we've had double the signings in and out of the club since SE arrival compared to our previous few managers. Not to be surprised, its what SE does. I'd rather he moulded players he's got into a better unit with coaching, rather than just changing personnel, which he's certainly done this season with us defensively. We've had so many combinations at the back this season but still we are a shambles a lot of the time defensively.

Think he's done a pretty good job in trying circumstances but there are still things about his methods I don't get or think work but he definitely has contacts in the game, he's proved that.
The thing is Captain he is a very poor coach - if you see him in the training ground he ‘huffs and puffs’ (literally ) he tries players in different positions and if you don’t win he gets rid. It does cost money to get players in and out with the frequency he does. He never brings players on. For example can you imagine him doing a one on one with Jorden Graham improving his technique and vision.. of course not. His method has always been the same whatever club he goes to .. you keep changing the players until you get a few results and then change again if they don’t work out. He bullies and blusters and bullshits his way through everything. The man is a salesman not a technician. Rayner is just his puppet. They scream and shout about everything. Lovell bless him had far more class in his little finger than these two muppets. The other thing I keep hearing is that we have such a low budget well if that’s the case Evans has blown a lot of money on many average players that have come and gone which a more astute manger would have used more assiduously. Gills may flirt with the play offs they won’t go down as they will always be mid table under these two. You have to question their ‘coaching’ content and style. Can anyone be serious that we play great entertaining football. The football is no better IMO. That being said we have 2/3 v good players who can turn on a little magic occasionally to get the occasional good results. Then we lose against some of the poorer teams. There is little consistency. I don’t like Evans behaviour or mouth on the touch lines especially when younger kids are around. Then I listen to the garish bullshit he gives to the fans and the local press and he comes across as quite charming. I wouldn’t be sorry to see them both Evans and rayner go they should be confined to the dinosaur football bin with the likes of Pullis and Allydice - with those around we will never develop young talent and progress them. IMO that’s why we won’t win a football World Cup unless we have a complete shake up of all football league clubs with the likes of our leagues being development leagues for English talent. I would ask limit the Prem league clubs to a specific amount of foreigners. If you think about it we have so many Loan players who we develop for their parent club.
Anyway rant over.
 
The thing is Captain he is a very poor coach - if you see him in the training ground he ‘huffs and puffs’ (literally ) he tries players in different positions and if you don’t win he gets rid. It does cost money to get players in and out with the frequency he does. He never brings players on. For example can you imagine him doing a one on one with Jorden Graham improving his technique and vision.. of course not. His method has always been the same whatever club he goes to .. you keep changing the players until you get a few results and then change again if they don’t work out. He bullies and blusters and bullshits his way through everything. The man is a salesman not a technician. Rayner is just his puppet. They scream and shout about everything. Lovell bless him had far more class in his little finger than these two muppets. The other thing I keep hearing is that we have such a low budget well if that’s the case Evans has blown a lot of money on many average players that have come and gone which a more astute manger would have used more assiduously. Gills may flirt with the play offs they won’t go down as they will always be mid table under these two. You have to question their ‘coaching’ content and style. Can anyone be serious that we play great entertaining football. The football is no better IMO. That being said we have 2/3 v good players who can turn on a little magic occasionally to get the occasional good results. Then we lose against some of the poorer teams. There is little consistency. I don’t like Evans behaviour or mouth on the touch lines especially when younger kids are around. Then I listen to the garish bullshit he gives to the fans and the local press and he comes across as quite charming. I wouldn’t be sorry to see them both Evans and rayner go they should be confined to the dinosaur football bin with the likes of Pullis and Allydice - with those around we will never develop young talent and progress them. IMO that’s why we won’t win a football World Cup unless we have a complete shake up of all football league clubs with the likes of our leagues being development leagues for English talent. I would ask limit the Prem league clubs to a specific amount of foreigners. If you think about it we have so many Loan players who we develop for their parent club.
Anyway rant over.

Interesting thoughts .
I have to agree, Evans is clearly not a training ground coach but then I’m not sure that is what he is employed for.
Coaches coach and managers manage ?
Eh!
 
The thing is Captain he is a very poor coach - if you see him in the training ground he ‘huffs and puffs’ (literally ) he tries players in different positions and if you don’t win he gets rid. It does cost money to get players in and out with the frequency he does. He never brings players on. For example can you imagine him doing a one on one with Jorden Graham improving his technique and vision.. of course not. His method has always been the same whatever club he goes to .. you keep changing the players until you get a few results and then change again if they don’t work out. He bullies and blusters and bullshits his way through everything. The man is a salesman not a technician. Rayner is just his puppet. They scream and shout about everything. Lovell bless him had far more class in his little finger than these two muppets. The other thing I keep hearing is that we have such a low budget well if that’s the case Evans has blown a lot of money on many average players that have come and gone which a more astute manger would have used more assiduously. Gills may flirt with the play offs they won’t go down as they will always be mid table under these two. You have to question their ‘coaching’ content and style. Can anyone be serious that we play great entertaining football. The football is no better IMO. That being said we have 2/3 v good players who can turn on a little magic occasionally to get the occasional good results. Then we lose against some of the poorer teams. There is little consistency. I don’t like Evans behaviour or mouth on the touch lines especially when younger kids are around. Then I listen to the garish bullshit he gives to the fans and the local press and he comes across as quite charming. I wouldn’t be sorry to see them both Evans and rayner go they should be confined to the dinosaur football bin with the likes of Pullis and Allydice - with those around we will never develop young talent and progress them. IMO that’s why we won’t win a football World Cup unless we have a complete shake up of all football league clubs with the likes of our leagues being development leagues for English talent. I would ask limit the Prem league clubs to a specific amount of foreigners. If you think about it we have so many Loan players who we develop for their parent club.
Anyway rant over.

Think your view is slightly warped and bias but that just my opinion and whilst I didn't want SE to be appointed manager he's surprised me on a few fronts and ultimately it's about results although I actually think they did better last season than they have this season so far.

As Shotshy says SE was brought in as a coach. I don't think SE has ever or will ever be a coach, that side of it from what I've seen and heard in their time here has been PR domain.

Trust me a lot of footballers and managers are different people away from the pitch than they are during a game or training, SE is no different in that aspect.

Don't agree with dinosaur football either, you play to your strengths, whatever they may be. If you expect total football in League one you're living in cloud clockwork land with the majority of clubs. We've seen plenty if times teams having massive possession stats, but losing games. That's not playing effective football.

You say SE doesn't develops hound talent, but both Walsh (who has made the club money in desperate financial times) and Tucker have both come on under SE watch. Tucker was being released (by Lovell) when SE came in.

Young coaches are all well and good, but are there that many successful English coaches. I know a few people who have their coaching badges, I doesn't mean they know f all about football IMO. One thing is for sure TP would have got us far more organised defensively than both SE or SL.

One thing is for sure SL was treated poorly by Socially, but IMO in our current situation both with what's going on in the world and in football, I doubt we'd be where were are in the table if SL was in charge, sadly.

SE has always operated the same way, so it's no surprise the revolving door is spinning fast at Priestfield.
 
I don't think there's any evidence Lovell was releasing Tucker other than Evans saying so and we all know not to believe half of what he says, it just makes him look better. Tucker hasn't progressed this season
 
I don't think there's any evidence Lovell was releasing Tucker other than Evans saying so and we all know not to believe half of what he says, it just makes him look better. Tucker hasn't progressed this season

Whether you rate Lovell or not, he was never afraid to give players a fair chance - not so sure about BFSE when the chips are down.

Think of the youngsters we have had on loan this season like Coyle, Medley and Eccles. They never got a run of games.

Maghoma has got a lot of stick on here but he has only had 4 starts having been playing abroad for a spell. Hard to see how you can even adjust to the pace of the English game in that time. How many games did Hodson get after coming down from Scottish football, before the man that signed him effectively kicked him out again?
 
The thing is Captain he is a very poor coach - if you see him in the training ground he ‘huffs and puffs’ (literally ) he tries players in different positions and if you don’t win he gets rid. It does cost money to get players in and out with the frequency he does. He never brings players on. For example can you imagine him doing a one on one with Jorden Graham improving his technique and vision.. of course not. His method has always been the same whatever club he goes to .. you keep changing the players until you get a few results and then change again if they don’t work out. He bullies and blusters and bullshits his way through everything. The man is a salesman not a technician. Rayner is just his puppet. They scream and shout about everything. Lovell bless him had far more class in his little finger than these two muppets. The other thing I keep hearing is that we have such a low budget well if that’s the case Evans has blown a lot of money on many average players that have come and gone which a more astute manger would have used more assiduously. Gills may flirt with the play offs they won’t go down as they will always be mid table under these two. You have to question their ‘coaching’ content and style. Can anyone be serious that we play great entertaining football. The football is no better IMO. That being said we have 2/3 v good players who can turn on a little magic occasionally to get the occasional good results. Then we lose against some of the poorer teams. There is little consistency. I don’t like Evans behaviour or mouth on the touch lines especially when younger kids are around. Then I listen to the garish bullshit he gives to the fans and the local press and he comes across as quite charming. I wouldn’t be sorry to see them both Evans and rayner go they should be confined to the dinosaur football bin with the likes of Pullis and Allydice - with those around we will never develop young talent and progress them. IMO that’s why we won’t win a football World Cup unless we have a complete shake up of all football league clubs with the likes of our leagues being development leagues for English talent. I would ask limit the Prem league clubs to a specific amount of foreigners. If you think about it we have so many Loan players who we develop for their parent club.
Anyway rant over.
I think a lot of that is on the money, but you appear somewhat biased against SE due to his treatment of Garmston.
Also we can’t afford to sign more than 2/3 really good technical “footballers”, so the direct physical style SE employs is all about finding a way to win with the budget he has available .
 
How far do you expect him to progress beyond being an automatic starter in the first team ?
That’s as far as he can go.
Last season he had that French West Ham striker who's name I've forgotten in his pocket. And Will Grigg.We thought we might lose him to a championship club. This year he had struggled in a number of games. I know the whole defence isn't as sound but that's why it saying he hasi progressed
 
Ok, we’ll agree to disagree.
In my opinion Tucker is a more accomplished centre back than Cundy, who is a couple of years older, is at a higher club and is highly rated as a good prospect.
Show me a centre back who doesn’t make the odd mistake.
Actually, show me any footballer who doesn’t make mistakes.
 
Gills may flirt with the play offs they won’t go down as they will always be mid table under these two.
.

Basically you are saying they will be more successful than their predecessors then. The last three had us embroiled in relegation battles.

I don't like the style of football under them but if its a results business then they are step up on the last three.

For what its worth some bloke on facebook says Evans had a third year option in the deal and he's triggered it. We will have to see if Facebook is accurate or not !
 
Basically you are saying they will be more successful than their predecessors then. The last three had us embroiled in relegation battles.

How do you define successful anyway?

Our position in the football pyramid clearly is not the main thing anyway, as Sir Keith Peacock was in charge for five/six seasons, and as well as the 10-0 and 8-1 wins, presided over a 7-1 defeat at York and his swansong 6-1 defeat at Aldershot.
Never took us to the promised land or Wembley but he is regarded by a lot of fans as our favourite manager.

Statistically, our most successful managers are still Peter Taylor who is the only manager to guide us to the second tier (even after losing Superbob for £1m mid season) and Andy Hessenthaler who managed us at that level for three seasons, guiding us to the top half in the 2002/2003 season.
 
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I don't think there's any evidence Lovell was releasing Tucker other than Evans saying so and we all know not to believe half of what he says, it just makes him look better. Tucker hasn't progressed this season

Ok ill rephrase it. SL had loaned JT out to Hastings United and between returning in the January and under SL entire tenure JT had made just one sub first team appearance and was out of contract that summer. SE offered JT a new contract with the club and since then he has made 54 appearances for us.
 
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