Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 202 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

Been some good debates this afternoon/evening. Shame in May not allowing these over 2 years ago.
 
Can someone help me here please? Apart from the fact that we wouldn't take part in making trading rules that effect us, how does Common Market 2.0 differ from being a member of the E.U.?
 
To my understanding it really doesn't, other than the obvious we pay for access, with no say, and have to accept all the rules (that we no longer shape).

But in name we're not in the EU, we're just working with them.

#takebackcontrol
 
Yup, May's deal is actually better to my understanding as a better mix between both remain and leave. Neither side gets what they want, it's a fudge, but a reasonable fudge as long as the backstop is avoided.

The whole thing though was always going to see us take back control pay pay slightly less, to have no voice but follow the regulations we once used to create as negotiating against the EU block, we are the smaller player.

The likes of Liam Fox, Francois etc talking about no deal, get on with it, never actually answer the question about future trade deal. Because when it doesn't go in our favour it'll be the EU's fault and we were right to no longer be involved, yet they'll be arguing for a better deal with the EU because we need them and we already have a better deal, and fucking Brazil is not the answer.

Lose EU immigration, we're taking Asian and South American instead.

Leaving the EU simply means our MP's can no longer use them as an excuse when they fuck up. And then they are really in the shit and we already will be.

Tonight's voting shows people are still on ideology rather than sense, but we're now at incredibly tight margins - which in some ways is progress.
 
Nick Bole resigns to become an independent. Clearly visibly upset however I admire his integrity and what he said.

Onwards towards the next dogs breakfast opps I mean dogs Brexit day
 
I voted for Brexit but rather than any deal these horrendous shits have put together
or the imbeciles who want no deal. I would rather stay in.Just do me one favour do not ask me to vote Tory ,Labour or LIb Dems at the next election. None of them act in the national interest. Politics is buggered now for years to come if there is no Brexit the one thing I fear is the rise of a far right party as they have in France etc
 
Those bastions of fiscal responsibility have been spending £5.5m per month on 'consultants' for Brexit. Obviously, that was money well spent.
 
BodyButter said:
This is a video from 3 years ago by the FT showing the various Brexit options:

Click to expand...

Interesting, I take the point in the video that that Lichtenstein model is a very small nation and the model would have to be adapted, but it proves that there is a better deal out there. Lichtenstein doesn’t have a trade deficit with the EU anywhere near the level Britain does on goods, and there was our bargaining power right there.
 
danvilla2 said:
Interesting, I take the point in the video that that Lichtenstein model is a very small nation and the model would have to be adapted, but it proves that there is a better deal out there. Lichtenstein doesn’t have a trade deficit with the EU anywhere near the level Britain does on goods, and there was our bargaining power right there.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel that immigration should be limited, Dan?

From an economic point of view, Britain's aging population is putting a big strain on the tax base. One way of dealing with that is to bring in more working-aged people. The alternatives are limiting the social services available to the elderly (a big vote killer) or to increase taxation on working-aged people (another vote killer).

Of course, not everything is related to economics.
 
Fewer than 6 Tory MPs turn up to debate petition of 6 million
Jack PeatApril 2, 2019

Chris Leslie has called for the petition to revoke Article 50 to be moved to the House of Commons after fewer than six Conservative MPs turned up to debate a petition of six million.

The MP for the Independent Group said a petition of such magnitude should not simply be “nodded through”, as is customary in Westminster Hall, but moved in front of the Prime Minister and senior cabinet ministers who “need to hear the voices of the people”.
He told MPs: “It is now our duty, faced with this six million petition, to not have it pigeonholed and side-lined here in Westminster Hall, but to take those views and have that voice heard in front of the government.”
The petition, demanding Article 50 be revoked, is the most popular since the e-petitions site launched.

It was debated in Westminster Hall chamber yesterday alongside two other petitions, one demanding a new referendum and another urging MPs to “honour the referendum result”, which has amassed more than 170,000 signatures.
The government has said it will not revoke Article 50 and it is working to deliver a deal that “ensures the UK leaves the EU”.


Cont: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/n...urn-up-to-debate-petition-of-6-million/02/04/





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Not sure what is expected to achieve with this petition when the government has already been completely dismissive of it and during the indicative votes MPs have shown revoking article 50 will never get off the ground.

10 days until the next leave date and we have shown yet again we have no clue on how to resolve this to anyone’s satisfaction. Such a divisive subject and always has been. I can see the UK ending up out with no deal.
 
These petitions are a bit questionable. How do they verify that signatures are bone fide?
If it's by means of your e-mail address I've got three. Does that mean I could vote three times?
 
Yeah, agreed ironside, not foolproof these. Indicates a strong feeling but can be manipulated.
 
Email verification, and then name to voting list - no matching name scrubbed off. Repeat names on easily linked email addys scrubbed off etc. Added to other measures, no where near foolproof, but a good indicator.

Had it reached 17odd mill I imagine they would've spent far longer looking at fraudulent votes given the meaning it would've had then.
 
BodyButter said:
Why do you feel that immigration should be limited, Dan?

From an economic point of view, Britain's aging population is putting a big strain on the tax base. One way of dealing with that is to bring in more working-aged people. The alternatives are limiting the social services available to the elderly (a big vote killer) or to increase taxation on working-aged people (another vote killer).

Of course, not everything is related to economics.
Click to expand...

I don’t - I work in an office whereby a quarter of the workforce is European as it’s a European HQ and I see the economic benefit of such workers (generally working age, with no kids - but that’s the main issue for the 52%. The leavers was to control immigration, the remainers are primarily concerned with the economy - the model seems to be the closest fit albeit it on a tiny scale.
 
The EU hold all the cards thanks to their negotiation over this process . They could probably even take the deal off the table and force us down a no deal or stay route, and we’ll have to decide which of the options we dislike more. Surely they can no longer deal with a disruptive child and can threaten us with something the vast majority do not want? We have no bargaining power anymore, our tail is firmly between our legs.

I expect the EU to crank up the pressure on us now.
 
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