Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 281 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

The Fear said:
Both brexit and covid I fear!
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Wish COVID would fuck odd because Brexit could be perversely fascinating. The potential death toll from disruption, poverty and even violence is high, I’m not saying it will result in that and I hope it won’t but you never know if it goes badly. A hard Brexit with tariffs will result in those three.
 
danvilla2 said:
He stands up for his constituents (and country) well. He calls out the Tories well from what I see, but the constant “Scotland against it’s will” line wears thin down here. I don’t think it’s helpful for the argument he’s fighting actually
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Sadly Blackford is one of those politicians that has you reaching for the off button.
Same old English bashing all the time.
 
BodyButter said:
What is the EU? I mean, what do you believe the EU is?

I could be wrong here but I believe the EU is a democratic organisation made up of elected members from its constituent countries. A large part of the decision making process is conducted by the Prime Ministers/Presidents of those member states who are themselves elected by the people of their counties.

You comment about the EU as if they are Procter and Gamble or The Illuminati.
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BB here is a view of the EUs democratic processes that I am fairly sure you will disagree with, but it is an alternative opinion.


The European Union Is an Antidemocratic Disgrace - Jacobin
jacobinmag.com › 2019/05 › european-union-parliame...
 
danvilla2 said:
Wish COVID would fuck odd because Brexit could be perversely fascinating. The potential death toll from disruption, poverty and even violence is high, I’m not saying it will result in that and I hope it won’t but you never know if it goes badly. A hard Brexit with tariffs will result in those three.
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Yes, what pees me off is we will never really know the impact, positive or negative, or indeed non impact, of brexit, because COVID has had such an effect on all of the European countries.

Now it is being done, as a point of interest, I'd love to have known if there was a wrong, a right or perhaps, a :shrug:
 
The Fear said:
That is their fault though 57, as I am sure you would agree... they said it was oven ready did they not? I'm just waiting for this crap to be over, but having signed a deal, they now want another one. The irony can't be lost no matter which way people voted?
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It's an oven ready microwaved great deal for NI that protects all our interests and is far superior to May's deal.

It's ambiguous and vague.
 
The Fear said:
Yes, what pees me off is we will never really know the impact, positive or negative, or indeed non impact, of brexit, because COVID has had such an effect on all of the European countries.

Now it is being done, as a point of interest, I'd love to have known if there was a wrong, a right or perhaps, a :shrug:
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If on the face of it ends up being a :shrug: but when you scratch beneath the surface and we’ve lost out on 1% of GDP growth over a decade that to me is failure. Leaving has to result in an economic gain for me, to be successful. Economics is one big part of it amongst others. Problem is unless there’s a parallel universe to compare to we’ll never know!

We’ll have to benchmark against the Frogs and the Germans and see what’s what.
 
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wittonite said:
Please expand your thoughts re Proctor and Gamble and The Illuminati and tell me how you arrive at that from anything I have said, because I have read and re read it and cant see how you would come to that conclusion.
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That post might have come across as harsh but I didn't mean it in that way. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion and I'd like to understand your opinion rather than criticise it because it's different to mine.

The EU is a very large, bureaucratic organisation. It doesn't work brilliantly but at its core, it's a collection of member states trying to work out how best to protect their interests together.

Procter and Gamble is a big company. The board of directors make decisions in their own interests. They don't reveal their thinking or have to justify their decisions to anyone except once per year to the shareholders. Meeting are held behind closed doors, as they should be for a private company.

You talk about the EU doing this and that as if they are meeting behind closed doors and imposing their will on the people of Europe but that just isn't the case.

In Britain's case, Britain had a veto on EU legislation. Any EU laws that were applied to Britain were done so with the consent of the British government. The idea that the EU was imposing its will on Britain is a fantasy. If anything, it was the other way around.
 
wittonite said:
BB here is a view of the EUs democratic processes that I am fairly sure you will disagree with, but it is an alternative opinion.


The European Union Is an Antidemocratic Disgrace - Jacobin
jacobinmag.com › 2019/05 › european-union-parliame...
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That link doesn't work. :(
 
So Boris The Blusterer got he wanted it seems. Quite the Tory backlash on the numbers though presuming the DUP were looking for another billion.

Lords might be interesting - especially as the bill doesn't do what it says on the tin.
 
mike_field said:
So Boris The Blusterer got he wanted it seems. Quite the Tory backlash on the numbers though presuming the DUP were looking for another billion.

Lords might be interesting - especially as the bill doesn't do what it says on the tin.
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The whole thing has been cooked up as a distraction from the equally criminal way they are handling the pandemic. It makes my blood boil how arrogant yet incompetent they are.
 
I was trying to keep my conspiracy hat off here but it does come at a good time for both our blathering idiots and the EU as well with the spikes they are seeing again.

It's at least something else on the newsfeed to discuss.
 
wittonite said:
Working now BB dont know what went wrong there.
The European Union Is an Antidemocratic Disgrace - Jacobin
jacobinmag.com › 2019/05 › european-union-parliame...
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Good read, well argued but also quite contradictory on the unquestionable power at play whilst acknowledging that MP's (all countries) automatically have a fail safe defence based on it's very own design and ignores the fact (or tries to) that the EU as a whole is nothing without sovereign states to begin with.

Also fails to draw the democratic distinction with the reality of democracy at both EU level and nation level but the EU is bad and by default, Parliament's must be good as a conclusion.

His bias is clear and he doesn't hide it (doesn't have to, just has to be honest which he is), but that piece would actually serve the effort that went into it far better if it was an argument as to how the EU needed to reform as he does highlight some good deficiencies - particularly, as said above, the national level get out to paint the EU as the big bad bogey when national Gov's are looking for an excuse to do something presumed as unpopular.
 
mike_field said:
Good read, well argued but also quite contradictory on the unquestionable power at play whilst acknowledging that MP's (all countries) automatically have a fail safe defence based on it's very own design and ignores the fact (or tries to) that the EU as a whole is nothing without sovereign states to begin with.

Also fails to draw the democratic distinction with the reality of democracy at both EU level and nation level but the EU is bad and by default, Parliament's must be good as a conclusion.

His bias is clear and he doesn't hide it (doesn't have to, just has to be honest which he is), but that piece would actually serve the effort that went into it far better if it was an argument as to how the EU needed to reform as he does highlight some good deficiencies - particularly, as said above, the national level get out to paint the EU as the big bad bogey when national Gov's are looking for an excuse to do something presumed as unpopular.
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And that Mike was the whole point of my original post, that the EU doesnt listen, ploughes on regardless and wont be diverted from its goals.
It doesnt listen.
The case for change and reform is overwhelming and, as stated previously if the EU had listened to critisism, not just from the UK but others aswell then maybe there would have been no need for a referendum.
I chose him for his bias because the vast majority on here are for remain and will quote whatever suites their argument, and why not, we all have an opinion.
 
wittonite said:
And that Mike was the whole point of my original post, that the EU doesnt listen, ploughes on regardless and wont be diverted from its goals.
It doesnt listen.
The case for change and reform is overwhelming and, as stated previously if the EU had listened to critisism, not just from the UK but others aswell then maybe there would have been no need for a referendum.
I chose him for his bias because the vast majority on here are for remain and will quote whatever suites their argument, and why not, we all have an opinion.
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Who is it within the EU that you would like to listen to criticism?

Much like America's electoral college system, it's not a great system but it works and reforming it would be such a long and arduous task that nobody in their right mind would take it on.
 
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