Europe In Out Shake it all about

[mike_field]

100% understandable mate and yes, take a breath that would be helpful lol

What did you want on leaving - the main reason, or are you all out with no specific thing being important - if you don't mind me asking.

 

[ironside]

I voted Remain. I have to admit to being disappointed at the referendum result. At the back of my mind I always believed that, in the end though, it wouldn’t really happen. I always thought that the establishment would find a way to keep us in.
I think there’ll be another referendum but if Remain wins it will cause a huge disconnect with a large section of voters. My worry is the rise of the right. People were asked what they wanted but the answer wasn’t accepted. They won’t be happy.
I don’t know how this rift in trust between politicians and people will be healed.

 

[Mutt_Man]

100% understandable mate and yes, take a breath that would be helpful lol

What did you want on leaving - the main reason, or are you all out with no specific thing being important - if you don't mind me asking.

Don't mind you asking at all chap .

I was in general feed up with being told what I can and can not use / do in my own home by people who earn 4 times my wage and only ever set foot on our soil to inspect and then tell us NO your doing it wrong . I'm 48 years of age and when the whole bananas are to curved/bent and need to be straighter I began to think ..... What really .
Mike you know I'm a bit of a union person , but even I HATE Corbyn lol
I know it's only happend like once or twice or even in a vice dungeon before but can't they just agree all the best bits for us .....

So all out I suppose . Sorry Mike I didn't take a breath lol

 

[Mutt_Man]

I voted Remain. I have to admit to being disappointed at the referendum result. At the back of my mind I always believed that, in the end though, it wouldn’t really happen. I always thought that the establishment would find a way to keep us in.
I think there’ll be another referendum but if Remain wins it will cause a huge disconnect with a large section of voters. My worry is the rise of the right. People were asked what they wanted but the answer wasn’t accepted. They won’t be happy.
I don’t know how this rift in trust between politicians and people will be healed.

Ironside I agree with you sir that it has caused a rift , if I bought a lottery ticket and it lost would it be ok to go back to the shop and ask for another one because I disagreed with the result ?

It baffles me sir .

 

[mike_field]

I voted Remain. I have to admit to being disappointed at the referendum result. At the back of my mind I always believed that, in the end though, it wouldn’t really happen. I always thought that the establishment would find a way to keep us in.
I think there’ll be another referendum but if Remain wins it will cause a huge disconnect with a large section of voters. My worry is the rise of the right. People were asked what they wanted but the answer wasn’t accepted. They won’t be happy.
I don’t know how this rift in trust between politicians and people will be healed.

I thought the same, for me it was so obvious a potential clusterfuck given how entwined we are and how much we rely on each other as the planet shrinks I was sat in silence that night as the result came in and went to bed fuming.

It's why I came around to the packaging will change but nothing in reality will, we'll just pay the cost of the changes - in effect May's actual deal largely.

But now we've got standpoints, some Remain and some Leave MP's who feel the need to ransom the country to be 100% right for their own biography's. Bollocks to the rest of us.

I think ongoing limbo is more damaging than straight out 'no deal leave' really.

It's not a good place to be and it's only going to get worse. It's not like MP's were starting with leeway anyway and yes the rise of mini Hitler's is a major concern, and the UK aren't alone in that. I just hope it proves to be an outlet for the truly frustrated rather than a real belief - if that makes any sense?

 

[Mutt_Man]

1945 times were very hard and our whole government stuck together to make our country stable and able to grow and move forward, why can our political parties do the same now rather than sit on their opposite sides and wreck any moves forward .

Meh ...

 

[ironside]

Yes Mike. I think whatever happens politicians have a lot of work to do to prove that they take notice of the people who elect them. It’s not enough to say that if you aren’t happy you can have another go in five years. I think the referendum result was as much a protest against the establishment which takes us for granted as a desire to leave the EU. By politicians I mean the European establishment as well as our own Westminster bubble dwellers.

 

[mike_field]

Don't mind you asking at all chap .

I was in general feed up with being told what I can and can not use / do in my own home by people who earn 4 times my wage and only ever set foot on our soil to inspect and then tell us NO your doing it wrong . I'm 48 years of age and when the whole bananas are to curved/bent and need to be straighter I began to think ..... What really .
Mike you know I'm a bit of a union person , but even I HATE Corbyn lol
I know it's only happend like once or twice or even in a vice dungeon before but can't they just agree all the best bits for us .....

So all out I suppose . Sorry Mike I didn't take a breath lol

Cheers dude.

That's largely still the UK Parliament though in reality, Health & Safety and the way we brought the EU directives into practice - so it falls on us.

Bendy bananas etc were a tabloid (Daily Mail) piece of bollocks to inflame like they are famous for. It's a failure of the system and the Government though because people believe it.

We all only have time to take in what we take in - when BS gets through - we all have to take the blame for that for allowing it to happen.

MP's and Parliament blame the people who believe it, then double down by blaming the EU for their own failures as well and then wonder why people hate the EU (and I'm not saying they are perfect, but what you list above was our Parliament's choice to bring into law as they did - that wasn't the foreigners lol).

This was why it was always going to be a mess and ultimately Remain's failure was in not being honest, they went scaremongery.

Lol at Unions, like Communism I like the idea, I hate the practice as those at the top benefit whilst those paying dues suffer.

Ties in with the Parliament now doing the best - it's all about them and us plebs fall at the bottom sadly.

Appreciate the answer, especially the all out element as I think that's probably what most leavers do actually want and it's why I think a second referendum on clarity would return all out full stop.

I'd definitely recommend the breath now though dude.

For me, I was remain for simplicity - don't particularly like the EU either but side on it would be too damaging and how can we change it from the outside.

In some ways I think if you took the extreme Remain and Leave elements out, most people wouldn't actually be that far apart in their thoughts.

 

[The Fear]

The banana (and cucumber) thing is a myth. It was simply a directive and was about more efficient transportation. You get more straight products in a box to transport from half way around the world.

Same as standardising bottle tops etc, it wasn't law, it was just a directive as to how to be more efficient. Some of these things have saved industry a fortune.

 

[mike_field]

1945 times were very hard and our whole government stuck together to make our country stable and able to grow and move forward, why can our political parties do the same now rather than sit on their opposite sides and wreck any moves forward .

Meh ...

May's deal was bad but I don't think it was far off being a decent deal in terms of a compromise. She cocked it by thinking Parliament could be ignored and that just got everyone else's back up as she's now seen.

Add to that Corbyn has no stated view and is simply playing the 'give me the PM badge' game.

If Parliament were trying to make the best of a bad economic decision - draw the line and look forward....they couldn't have made a bigger mess.

When you unite Remain and Leave against May's deal you've done something wrong lol

 

[The Fear]

Not sure why remain has to be an option if there is another vote MF?

They've asked that already. Hate the result, but it's the result.

I think the tweet from a while back was right, we've basically declared war on ourselves. But from the lies, we've now made our bed. Sadly we all have to lay in it.

If the narrow win for leave isn't pushed through, it would be an affront to our so called democracy.

 

[mike_field]

Yes Mike. I think whatever happens politicians have a lot of work to do to prove that they take notice of the people who elect them. It’s not enough to say that if you aren’t happy you can have another go in five years. I think the referendum result was as much a protest against the establishment which takes us for granted as a desire to leave the EU. By politicians I mean the European establishment as well as our own Westminster bubble dwellers.

Yup, it's brought out plenty of deep seated frustrations for sure.

Making manifesto's legally binding would be a start and it would stop them from promising the earth and then delivering nothing.

Whatever happens this needs to be a line drawn, where MP's become human again and not career politicians, then we might be able to stem the over the top criticism and hate, find some connection (to use a fluffy phrase) and actually start repairing things.

 

[Mutt_Man]

Dude I agree with you on the unions rich get richer but we surffs have to play what we have lol

 

[danvilla2]

The government has won the confidence of parliament - May

No Theresa, they don’t have confidence in you - mathematically you have spent millions buying a few more seats so you have an advantage. Even your own MPs do not have confidence in you, they just have less confidence in the other clown.

 

[JuanPabloAngel]

The government has won the confidence of parliament - May

No Theresa, they don’t have confidence in you - mathematically you have spent millions buying a few more seats so mathematically you have an advantage. Even your own MPs do not have confidence in you, they just have less confidence in the other clown.

Didn't the Tories have a vote of no confidence in May a couple of weeks back, where 117 (?) of their MPs didn't have confidence in her?

And now, the very next day after 430-odd MPs of all parties rejected out of hand her work of the past 2 and a half years, those 117 have suddenly some new-found confidence in the ability of the government.

 

[mike_field]

Not sure why remain has to be an option if there is another vote MF?

They've asked that already. Hate the result, but it's the result.

I think the tweet from a while back was right, we've basically declared war on ourselves. But from the lies, we've now made our bed. Sadly we all have to lay in it.

If the narrow win for leave isn't pushed through, it would be an affront to our so called democracy.

The narrow margin, the time since - if it's not I just see a new wave of third vote coming. Have it included (I would say via frustration) flat out 'leave no deal' would be the winner would edge a closer reconnect because nobody can say 'what about my voice'.

A better world would actually have said second referendum the day after the vote with 'leave no deal' 'customs union' 'canada+' etc to get clarity.

I just think too much time has passed now if we are looking for a final line, and I say that as somebody who you know thinks face value 'no deal' is the only instruction given if we take the result on face value.

Whatever happens we need a decade or two of stableness, if the next generation want back in fine - but we can't have Parliament sidetracked like the way the Tory Leavers have done over the years whilst we're trying to stay afloat. Treat them like the Scottish lol, you've had your say, come back in 10 years whilst we focus.

 

[mike_field]

The government has won the confidence of parliament - May

No Theresa, they don’t have confidence in you - mathematically you have spent millions buying a few more seats so you have an advantage. Even your own MPs do not have confidence in you, they just have less confidence in the other clown.

In a nutshell.

Any plausible Labour leader and May would've been toast long ago.

I'm not saying they'd have had any more success, but May would've been toast.

 

[mike_field]

Didn't the Tories have a vote of no confidence in May a couple of weeks back, where 117 (?) of their MPs didn't have confidence in her?

And now, the very next day after 430-odd MPs of all parties rejected out of hand her work of the past 2 and a half years, those 117 have suddenly some new-found confidence in the ability of the government.

The power and influence of Labour and Corbyn and MP's looking after their own gold plated pensions!

What a sorry state of affairs Democracy is in!

 

[mike_field]

Dude I agree with you on the unions rich get richer but we surffs have to play what we have lol

Wouldn't mind, can't even surf! lol

 

[Mutt_Man]

If the narrow win for leave isn't pushed through, it would be an affront to our so called democracy.

That's my thought on this whole debacle J , how can we call our government a free democracy if what was voted for does not happen and then asked to do it again.
I know we're not at that pic t yet but it looks like it's coming .