England Belongs To Us | Page 14 | Vital Football

England Belongs To Us

Maybe it's not worth saying but. I will do so in the hope it clarifies some matters.

I don't think anyone on this board is A RACIST, not on the basis of what they have posted here, nor on the basis of how I imagine they behave in public. It's one of those many terms that are used to encompass everything from passing thoughts to murder. I rarely use it to describe a person for that reason though shotshy's acquaintance probably passes the test. I know a few.

Where we disagree is when some see what they believe are racist attitudes and call them out. I think we quite often misunderstand one another in this area of discussion and wilfully provoke and overreact to stereotypes. None of us holds power so it's thoughts really. I feel uncomfortable when some express some of theirs and am aware that I have returned the compliment. Peace, Love & Football
 
jogills said:
Maybe it's not worth saying but. I will do so in the hope it clarifies some matters.

I don't think anyone on this board is A RACIST, not on the basis of what they have posted here, nor on the basis of how I imagine they behave in public. It's one of those many terms that are used to encompass everything from passing thoughts to murder. I rarely use it to describe a person for that reason though shotshy's acquaintance probably passes the test. I know a few.

Where we disagree is when some see what they believe are racist attitudes and call them out. I think we quite often misunderstand one another in this area of discussion and wilfully provoke and overreact to stereotypes. None of us holds power so it's thoughts really. I feel uncomfortable when some express some of theirs and am aware that I have returned the compliment. Peace, Love & Football
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Good post jogills
I’d like to think that I’m not racist even though I don’t agree with the futile gesture of footballers taking to one knee for about three seconds before a match, as if it’s going to make any difference.
I’d personally prefer to see them all linking arms in unity and maybe encourage the crowd to do the same.
That would be a bigger gesture in my opinion.
 
shotshy said:
Good post jogills
I’d like to think that I’m not racist even though I don’t agree with the futile gesture of footballers taking to one knee for about three seconds before a match, as if it’s going to make any difference.
I’d personally prefer to see them all linking arms in unity and maybe encourage the crowd to do the same.
That would be a bigger gesture in my opinion.
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But if you disagree with the knee taking, you are "fanning the flames". Does it make me a racist, just because I disagree with taking the knee and some of the things it represents?
I agree that black lives matter (but not BLM) and am not a racist, but I disagree with taking the knee. Hopefully someone can tell me which pigeon hole I belong in?
 
Nobby_66 said:
But if you disagree with the knee taking, you are "fanning the flames". Does it make me a racist, just because I disagree with taking the knee and some of the things it represents?
I agree that black lives matter (but not BLM) and am not a racist, but I disagree with taking the knee. Hopefully someone can tell me which pigeon hole I belong in?
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If you are willing to be educated on why you are wrong about the knee, then I'm sure you can become an anti racist. It isn't really my area of expertise, others know a lot more than me.
 
jogills said:
Maybe it's not worth saying but. I will do so in the hope it clarifies some matters.

I don't think anyone on this board is A RACIST, not on the basis of what they have posted here, nor on the basis of how I imagine they behave in public. It's one of those many terms that are used to encompass everything from passing thoughts to murder. I rarely use it to describe a person for that reason though shotshy's acquaintance probably passes the test. I know a few.

Where we disagree is when some see what they believe are racist attitudes and call them out. I think we quite often misunderstand one another in this area of discussion and wilfully provoke and overreact to stereotypes. None of us holds power so it's thoughts really. I feel uncomfortable when some express some of theirs and am aware that I have returned the compliment. Peace, Love & Football
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Oy - you can stop this sensible stuff right now.
 
Sticks and stones ........

Such an uproar from the media about words.

No uproar re people actual being physically hurt: i will say it again
Knife crime is an epidemic. Annually around 46,000 occurrences of which 259 result in death

Obviously we would like to save our kids from all harm but - Given a choice as a parent i think i would prefer my child to be verbally abused instead of stabbed to death.
 
I think privileged black footballers would earn a lot more respect if they concentrated on knife crime.
Woke politics are divisive.
We need role models who can promote something that we can ALL get behind.
 
To those referencing knife crime, are you aware of the work being done about this by many of our footballers? Check Sterling for starters. They are doing what they can and working with those potentially vulnerable to involvement in schools and communities. There is a lot of positive work done by footballers that attracts little attention.

It's not either or in relation to what they campaign on but remember where we started. Footballers were being subjected to on line and real world racism at home and abroad. They were frustrated by the repeated statements and lack of action and had begun to talk about walking off the pitch. Some opposed their right to act and argued that they were exaggerating, over privileged etc etc. They stuck with it, started taking the knee and received a fiercely negative reaction from some. They kept coming and that is now what politicians like to call the direction of travel.
 
jogills said:
To those referencing knife crime, are you aware of the work being done about this by many of our footballers? Check Sterling for starters. They are doing what they can and working with those potentially vulnerable to involvement in schools and communities. There is a lot of positive work done by footballers that attracts little attention.

.
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That's a problem then, isn't it. Lots of work being done, for little attention, and with no results.

I wonder whether there would be less racism if there was less knife crime, less rapes, and less drug dealing?
 
Nobby_66 said:
But if you disagree with the knee taking, you are "fanning the flames". Does it make me a racist, just because I disagree with taking the knee and some of the things it represents?
I agree that black lives matter (but not BLM) and am not a racist, but I disagree with taking the knee. Hopefully someone can tell me which pigeon hole I belong in?
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No pigeon holes for me Nobby, perfectly respectable position.
 
ThreeSixes said:
That's a problem then, isn't it. Lots of work being done, for little attention, and with no results.

I wonder whether there would be less racism if there was less knife crime, less rapes, and less drug dealing?
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There most certainly would but I'm probably coming at it from a different angle to you. I'd say all these problems are difficult, complex and not open to simple solutions. It's very hard to judge the effects of work by footballers with young people but almost certainly positive to some extent.
 
jogills said:
There most certainly would but I'm probably coming at it from a different angle to you. I'd say all these problems are difficult, complex and not open to simple solutions. It's very hard to judge the effects of work by footballers with young people but almost certainly positive to some extent.
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I would say very simple if there was the willpower and funding.
 
jogills said:
There most certainly would but I'm probably coming at it from a different angle to you. I'd say all these problems are difficult, complex and not open to simple solutions. It's very hard to judge the effects of work by footballers with young people but almost certainly positive to some extent.
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How about Footballers Against Gangs
FAG (reclaim the word)
They could use their social media influence to try and educate young people about the danger of joining gangs.
That would be positive.
Players with profiles like Rashford and Sterling would make a massive difference in the reduction of knife crime.
Speaking to their own community will be more positive than trying to convince a knucklehead not to be racist by dropping to one knee for three seconds.
 
Jerryattrick said:
Nobody seems to ask why free school meals and food banks are needed.
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Because we are a wealthy country overall.
Only a wealthy country could afford to have food banks and free school meals.
The richest countries in Europe have the highest percentage.
 
shotshy said:
Because we are a wealthy country overall.
Only a wealthy country could afford to have food banks and free school meals.
The richest countries in Europe have the highest percentage.
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Well that comment must be quite illustrative of the way you think, shotshy.

Only the wealthiest countries can afford to provide free school meals for their children in poverty. You seem to be suggesting this is a positive thing.

jerry's question was WHY are the free meals needed? Not, how comes the government is able to provide them?

Lots of people, myself included, question WHY and HOW a wealthy country like ours could ever find itself in a position where there is even the need for such things as free school meals and food banks. It just doesn't seem right that in such a wealthy country people, and children ffs, are going hungry.

It's even worse in the States. That country is richer than ours, and their levels of poverty are more extreme.

Truth is, it's got fuck all to do with wealth and everything to do with inequality, injustice and cap-i-ta-fuck-ill-ism.
 
shotshy said:
Good post jogills
I’d like to think that I’m not racist even though I don’t agree with the futile gesture of footballers taking to one knee for about three seconds before a match, as if it’s going to make any difference.
I’d personally prefer to see them all linking arms in unity and maybe encourage the crowd to do the same.
That would be a bigger gesture in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Shotsy, I'm not looking to pick a fight...

However, taking the knee is just a gesture, as would linking arms.

You can argue the merits of which is more impactful, but they are essentially the same, and the usual suspects would come down against the arm linking as they have done against the knee.
 
MedwayModernist said:
Shotsy, I'm not looking to pick a fight...

However, taking the knee is just a gesture, as would linking arms.

You can argue the merits of which is more impactful, but they are essentially the same, and the usual suspects would come down against the arm linking as they have done against the knee.
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I'm not so sure, the kneeling thing seemed to re gain popularity following the death of George Floyd (killed by a police officer kneeling on him) and was accompanied by the phrase "I can't breathe". This original outburst was against the police with attempts at defending and physically attacking them. This is why I disagree with (but would never boo) taking the knee.
However, I do agree with the players showing some sign of solidarity and togetherness to include a sign against ALL discrimination. I was very impressed with the closeness of the squad and, for me, this was perfectly symbolised by standing arm in arm during the anthem.
I believe that as not only a sign of togetherness for the anthem but for each other and would send a similarly powerful message as a replacement for taking the knee as it would show a united front against all forms of division IMO
 
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