Danny, Jovon, and the type of fans we are | Page 2 | Vital Football

Danny, Jovon, and the type of fans we are

Sincilbanks said:
It's my firm opinion that he is executing the managers game plan, he's not pressing and closing down hard because that's the game plan. Against Bolton it was obvious to me the plan was to allow the keeper to play it to Santos and then cut off every pass to ensure he had to play it long.
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Fair enough. The same criticism has been levelled against him when facing more limited teams than Bolton, where you would hope we would be more proactive and press rather than sitting deep.
 
As for Jovon, time will tell, but I think sometimes fans can be so quick to criticize and attack, without taking a moment to pause and think about the person their comments are aimed at. And maybe it's easier to give 100% if someone is cheering and encouraging, rather than jeering and attacking you.

Maybe it is just me, but a 19 year old footballer coming out wearing gloves, when it's 10 degrees, doesn't give the impression that he is ready to get stuck in and give it a go.
 
Sincilbanks said:
It's my firm opinion that he is executing the managers game plan, he's not pressing and closing down hard because that's the game plan. Against Bolton it was obvious to me the plan was to allow the keeper to play it to Santos and then cut off every pass to ensure he had to play it long.
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Really hope that's not the managers long term game plan.

Hope he has a bit more to his game plan than that, which may also include attacking the oppositions goal.
 
Chesterimp said:
No one has yet made the point with Makama that since Skubala was appointed, he's made his full EFL debut and since been the starting striker. Clearly, in the view of MS and the coaching staff, Jovon is doing enough right things to merit continued selection over the other, albeit limited options, Vale and Adelakun, and that will include the physical effort he's putting in. The coaching staff have access to a whole realm of data which we don't.

I think though the physical and mental effect of that sudden increase in workload is now evident. Against similar, experienced defenders Jovon had a pretty good game at Wigan but struggled at Derby. Some of that is down to the team around him - we pressed pretty effectively at Wigan, less so at Derby where he was more isolated and less effective but that wasn't his fault.

We need to be supporting our players, not finding scapegoats.
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I think it is more that Vale isn’t our player and Hakeeb we have wanted rid of for 18 months plus.
 
It must be the holiday season as people find time to write lengthy essays. As the ultimate pedant I stopped reading when the opening paragraph referred to 'Saturday' rather than Tuesday's match. I'll get my coat.
 
gijsbert_bos said:
This is exactly it with Makama. He's up front and part of his job is to put himself about and press the defenders. Surely, a strong young lad of 19 can run around a lot and use his size to intimidate defenders. It doesn't need experience.
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Why do you assume he's a "Strong young lad"?
All I'm seeing is a tall gangly teenager, who needs a few pies and a lot of time weight training!
 
gijsbert_bos said:
This is exactly it with Makama. He's up front and part of his job is to put himself about and press the defenders. Surely, a strong young lad of 19 can run around a lot and use his size to intimidate defenders. It doesn't need experience.
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This is the perfect thread.

Mandroiu is petulant because he gets stuck in and sent off.

Makama needs to get stuck.

Both need to do the opposite of the other apparently.
 
I think what needs to be said on Jovon and Danny has been said, so I’ll look at the third element of the thread title: the fans.

Boxing Day was my first game at the Bank since we beat Blackpool 3-0 as I moved abroad. I’ve been watching every game on iFollow (legally, before anyone starts!), but something I noticed that hasn’t always been obvious on TV was the amount of people leaving as soon as Bolton scored.

A large chunk of the crowd around me just left, presumably on the basis we definitely weren’t getting back into the game.

Which I get to an extent as it’s obviously not beyond the wit of man to realise that we probably weren’t going to score.

But the complete lack of belief and faith was quite eye-opening.

I know some may point to it being Boxing Day and people having various plans/commitments, but I find it hard to believe the same people would’ve left had we just gone 1-0 up in the 89th minute.

I’m hoping there will be a bit more backing from the stands tonight, albeit I appreciate that the players need to give us something to shout about too.
 
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clanfordimp said:
Really hope that's not the managers long term game plan.

Hope he has a bit more to his game plan than that, which may also include attacking the oppositions goal.
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I think they demonstrated that if we pressed high up the field they would have cut us to pieces by passing through us, so that approach seemed quite sensible to me
 
Sincilbanks said:
I think they demonstrated that if we pressed high up the field they would have cut us to pieces by passing through us, so that approach seemed quite sensible to me
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They are Bolton from Lg One not a big hitter from the Prem League. Were Bristol Rovers scared of them when they had 14 attempts at their goal, were Leyton Orient despite being 3-0 down after 10 minutes had 12 attempts and lost 3-2. We played into their hands setting up how we did, just the way we did in the away game and got dicked 3-0. Teams that set up not to lose deserve to get beat.
 
Jules said:
I wish this had been submitted for use on the front page, @LA_Imp...
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Sorry Jules. I’m not really sure how some of the site protocols work exactly. I mainly post on match days due to work and time differences but as I’m off until the new year thought I would post a bit more. If you need to move or delete anything go ahead. Also, genuinely appreciate all the work you do. 😀
 
LA_Imp said:
Sorry Jules. I’m not sure how some of the site protocols work exactly. I mainly post on match days due to work and time differences but as I’m off until the new year thought I would post a bit more. If you need to move or delete anything go ahead. Also, genuinely appreciate all the work you do. 😀
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Anyone is welcome to send anything like your opening post to me via private message so it can be published on the front page. It is worth more on there, too.
 
exhertsimp said:
It must be the holiday season as people find time to write lengthy essays. As the ultimate pedant I stopped reading when the opening paragraph referred to 'Saturday' rather than Tuesday's match. I'll get my coat.
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A fair point, frankly I lose total track of time between December 24 - January 2. As a part-time pedant I tip my fedora towards you 😁
 
Sincilbanks said:
I think they demonstrated that if we pressed high up the field they would have cut us to pieces by passing through us, so that approach seemed quite sensible to me
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Yep, we're absolutely shit scared of teams cutting us to pieces.

That shit scared that we line up (every match whether it's Bolton or Cheltenham) with the most defensive team we can possibly turn out.

Maybe if our tactics and starting eleven was a bit more positive and maybe if we coached our players to play in a way that we created more opportunities then maybe we wouldn't have to worry too much about what the opposition are doing because they would have their hands full worrying about where we're going to be coming at them next.
 
clanfordimp said:
Really hope that's not the managers long term game plan.

Hope he has a bit more to his game plan than that, which may also include attacking the oppositions goal.
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100% the game plan changed Saturday- Skubala himself alluded to "tweaking things" at half time and, from my view, that game plan included moving to a low block. Numerous occasions second half, with the ball across the Bolton back line, our forward line moved back to the half way line.

I'd have a listen to the pre Northampton interview with Skubala- interesting interview in terms of where we are at and where we want to be at. One thing I is clear- the idea Skubala doesn't know attempts on goal mean more likely to score and corners.touches in opposition box mean pressure on the opposition wou;ld be a little silly. The team we put out on Saturday, looking at the bench, was as close as we are going to get to the best current starting 11 (Vale is coming across as a lightweight Tom Hopper). Our game plan on Boxing Day, whether we like or not, was ultimately not to lose- it didn't wprk. We've played two out of the top 3 teams in the last 3 games and got beat- it happens.

We will see what tonight brings!
 
Chimpimp said:
This is the perfect thread.

Mandroiu is petulant because he gets stuck in and sent off.

Makama needs to get stuck.

Both need to do the opposite of the other apparently.
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Come on, there's a world of difference between the idea of "getting stuck in" and the reality of (two) mindless two-footed tackles when the opposition have the ball around the half-way line. Not sure it's even petulance, more a total lack of thought. I'd like to think that all professional players know they might be in trouble when both feet leave the ground in a "tackle". Be nice to think a few would reinforce that point after it happens once, and the individual would be bright enough to take it on board.
 
Sincilbanks said:
It's my firm opinion that he is executing the managers game plan, he's not pressing and closing down hard because that's the game plan. Against Bolton it was obvious to me the plan was to allow the keeper to play it to Santos and then cut off every pass to ensure he had to play it long.
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👏
 
johnolbe said:
They are Bolton from Lg One not a big hitter from the Prem League. Were Bristol Rovers scared of them when they had 14 attempts at their goal, were Leyton Orient despite being 3-0 down after 10 minutes had 12 attempts and lost 3-2. We played into their hands setting up how we did, just the way we did in the away game and got dicked 3-0. Teams that set up not to lose deserve to get beat.
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I am presenting why Makama didn't press the way some wanted him to. I'm not really interested in how many shots Bristol had on target or whether Orient were 3 down after 10 minutes or not. If we'd been dicked 3-0 there would just be people moaning about how naive we were and we need to be "streetwise"...
 
SIMJON said:
Whilst I can understand the exasperation of seeing Makama play as literally a lone body up front I actually think he is a decent prospect and in a couple of years could be a decent player at this level...this isn't the formation for him (or any forward) though.
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More alone than lone at times on boxing day, often with no teammate within 40 yards of him, just bizarre
 
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