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Coronavirus

This latest forecast is on a par with the garbage Imperial forecast where 500,000 deaths were predicted back in March. There has been an increase in cases in the UK as well as France and Spain,which can be partly explained by a huge increase in testing. There has been no significant increase in fatalities in the UK or anywhere else in Europe-indeed the latest graph in Spain shows a fall in cases. My take in the recent increase in cases is that it will be brief and last about 3 weeks before resuming its decline. Any increase in fatalities will be marginal.

Apart from the countries mentioned there appears to be no upsurge in either deaths or cases anywhere else in Europe.
 
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I don't trust any figures given out by this government at all , infact i dont trust the government in any wat shape or form .

OK the kk cases seem to be rising , but how many are "false positives" , ie dead virus and strong cases of flu virus etc .

The 41 odd thousand deaths are shown as death by "any reason" with 28 days of a positive test . How many are actual covid deaths ?? .
 
57harry said:
This latest forecast is on a par with the garbage Imperial forecast where 500,000 deaths were predicted back in March. There has been an increase in cases in the UK as well as France and Spain,which can be partly explained by a huge increase in testing. There has been no significant increase in fatalities in the UK or anywhere else in Europe-indeed the latest graph in Spain shows a fall in cases. My take in the recent increase in cases is that it will be brief and last about 3 weeks before resuming its decline. Any increase in fatalities will be marginal.

Apart from the countries mentioned there appears to be no upsurge in either deaths or cases anywhere else in Europe.
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https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/19...as-covid-19-cases-in-spain-increase-by-14-000

France also recorded 123 deaths in a single day, a record high since May when the country was first coming out of lockdown and cases were decreasing

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/does-the-resurgence-of-covid-19-in-spain-exhibit-exponential-growth/

"Several European countries have experienced an increase in rates of COVID-19 cases, hospitalisations, and deaths – in recent months. Particularly prominent has been the case in Spain."
 
Sincilbanks said:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/19...as-covid-19-cases-in-spain-increase-by-14-000

France also recorded 123 deaths in a single day, a record high since May when the country was first coming out of lockdown and cases were decreasing

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/does-the-resurgence-of-covid-19-in-spain-exhibit-exponential-growth/

"Several European countries have experienced an increase in rates of COVID-19 cases, hospitalisations, and deaths – in recent months. Particularly prominent has been the case in Spain."
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There has been some increases in France and Spain but not significant


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cheshireimp said:
I don't trust any figures given out by this government at all , infact i dont trust the government in any wat shape or form .

OK the kk cases seem to be rising , but how many are "false positives" , ie dead virus and strong cases of flu virus etc .

The 41 odd thousand deaths are shown as death by "any reason" with 28 days of a positive test . How many are actual covid deaths ?? .
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On false positives, the situation is grim. Take a look at the Lockdown Sceptics article I linked a couple of days ago, strap yourself in for a long read, and be prepared to be shocked at what is presented there.

Then if you really want to get angry, watch this clip from the absolutely appalling Grant Shapps. Whatever side of the covid/lockdown debate you are on, surely it is now crystal clear that this government are simply not fit for purpose and need to be removed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308007004540211200

As for actually dying of Covid with no other underlying illnesses, taking the CDC stats from a few weeks ago, we’d be looking at somewhere between 2-4,000.
 
Sincilbanks said:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/19...as-covid-19-cases-in-spain-increase-by-14-000

France also recorded 123 deaths in a single day, a record high since May when the country was first coming out of lockdown and cases were decreasing

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/does-the-resurgence-of-covid-19-in-spain-exhibit-exponential-growth/

"Several European countries have experienced an increase in rates of COVID-19 cases, hospitalisations, and deaths – in recent months. Particularly prominent has been the case in Spain."
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But an absolute fraction of the number seen back in March/April.

Italy’s also quite instructive... a ‘wave’ of cases that peaked around a month ago... barely any increase in deaths.

526B24F5-192B-47A0-8791-FAFC352F7FBA.jpeg526B24F5-192B-47A0-8791-FAFC352F7FBA.jpeg

I also remember talk on here back at the beginning of August when cases started to rise of ‘wait 3 weeks’.... deaths and hospitalisation barely went up. So why the massive scaremongering now?

Question for Sincilbanks: as you tend to refute/dismiss any evidence that comes on here going against the government and mainstream media position of Covid panic and fear, and continued restrictions, is it safe to assume you would also support a second lockdown? If so, on what grounds?
 
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5A17CCD4-7C43-40BE-8C27-A26E6D2E430E.jpeg5A17CCD4-7C43-40BE-8C27-A26E6D2E430E.jpeg

Sorry for the double picture posts, although in this case, maybe it’s worth putting twice. Models based on the current data trends comparing the UK’s cases to France and Spain and not Whitty’s criminal ‘scenario’ of 50,000 cases he spouted yesterday.

Absolutely incredible that people like NottyImp actually believe the crap they read in the Guardian or what comes out of Chris Whitty’s mouth. Starting to think that these people are the real problem, because all the while they shout ‘conspiracy theorist’ or ‘anti-vaxxer’ at people questioning the junk science the British population are being fed, the more the criminals at the top will get away with it.

And if you think this is too extreme, then look what Hancock is planning for protecting the elderly:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/18/care...2IDjON9i9VDLAXW9YMI&__twitter_impression=true

Seriously... it’s time to wake up.
 
Then if you really want to get angry, watch this clip from the absolutely appalling Grant Shapps. Whatever side of the covid/lockdown debate you are on, surely it is now crystal clear that this government are simply not fit for purpose and need to be removed.

Agree with this!

Absolutely incredible that people like NottyImp actually believe the crap they read in the Guardian or what comes out of Chris Whitty’s mouth. Starting to think that these people are the real problem, because all the while they shout ‘conspiracy theorist’ or ‘anti-vaxxer’ at people questioning the junk science the British population are being fed, the more the criminals at the top will get away with it.

The Guardian is quite balanced, regularly presenting both sides and is making something of the Henegan/Sikora/Gupta view in recent days. Menawhile regular columnist Simon Jenkins presents pretty much your opinion on Covid. Don't forget it is a 'liberal' paper and is starting to get very worried about unintended consequences of lockdowns, and, especially, the impact on civil liberties, including some of the frankly East German style mutterings coming out of government.
 
SwedishImp said:
NottyImp won’t read this as he blocks any opinion or discussion that doesn’t follow his (or The Guardian’s) agenda. However, as his comments here have absolutely disgusted me, I’m going to address him directly just to get this off my chest.

If you want facts, there’s any number out there if you bothered to look. However, as is abundantly clear from your contributions to this thread (i.e. stupid sarcastic comments, personal attacks on people who have views that differ from yours, constant shares of fear-mongering, biased articles from the same source), I would submit that your intelligence and breadth of knowledge and research is so narrow that it is essentially irrelevant.

Therefore, for you to label people (usually with very good statistical evidence to support them) who are questioning the continuing shutdowns, media fear-mongering and damage to society as sociopaths is nothing short of a disgrace.

The vast majority of these people (as was seen at the London protests last Saturday) are honest, caring and hugely concerned about the direction of the Covid response and agenda, not for themselves but for their families, friends and humanity in general. This is of course not reported in the type of media outlets you favour – they’re much keener on labelling anyone who questions the narrative as a far-right, conspiracy theorist, lizard-loving nutter. But as has so often been the case during this crisis, this is simply not representative of what is happening on the ground.

What you appear to be espousing however (often with rather sociopathic levels of aggression and hostility it must be said) is total, unquestioning adherence to government dictates in the name of ‘protecting lives’. When actually, look further and you’ll see that these government dictates (not just in the UK but across the world) have been doing anything but protecting lives.

Seriously, if you or anyone else are that worried about a virus which is now estimated to be less dangerous than taking a bath, then society is now totally set up for you to lock yourself away at home for as long as you see fit.

So why don’t you just get on and do that until your unlicensed vaccine arrives, rather than attacking, insulting and guilt-tripping others who want to try and get on with their lives and rescue what’s left of society?
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What a load of crap, and dangerous crap too.
 
SwedishImp said:
As this will be my last post for a while, I thought I’d give my own ‘decent’ summary of where we’re at (mainly as a counterpoint to the narrative NottyImp loves so much in the ‘decent’ summaries he finds in The Guardian):

  • Current survival rate of 99.75% (significantly higher than that in the under 70s)
  • 94% of Covid deaths in the USA were in people with on average 2.6 other serious co-morbidities
  • Deaths and hospitalisations declining to very low levels in many countries (including the UK and pretty much all of Europe)
  • Continued suppression and non-reporting of declining deaths and hospitalisations in the mainstream media, instead heavy focus on ‘cases’ (which if you’d read Dr Kenrick’s excellent article I shared yesterday, you’d know is pointless)
  • Continued failure of the mainstream media and opposition political parties to challenge the government on their handling of the crisis, in particular the decision to withhold medical treatment to all non-Covid patients and care home residents during lockdown (leading to huge spikes in excess deaths), and enforcing ‘Do Not Resuscitate’ orders on the elderly without family consent
  • Fraudulent counting of official Covid deaths in the UK already confirmed and more of this coming to light in other countries (e.g. Italy, USA)
  • Continued use of a test (PCR-RP) that is unreliable and prone to picking up false positives, as well as cases that are so mild and non-infectious that they pose no threat to the community (even the BBC picked up on this over the weekend)
  • Proven treatments such as HCQ still being withheld or discredited despite significant research and evidence suggesting it is effective
  • Mask-wearing still mandatory in most countries despite there being no evidence that they prevent infection
  • Significant increases in suicides and other mental health related problems
  • Contractions of the economy at levels never seen before in history
  • Job cuts and unemployment rates increasing sharply and likely to also be at record levels once the furlough scheme comes to an end next month
  • Experimental vaccines being prepared for the UK that look likely to be unlicensed and rushed through testing
  • Australia already touting “no jab, no pay” for people on state benefits, and floating laws that would allow employers to sack workers who choose not to get vaccinated (and just as a reminder, this would be for an experimental vaccine for a virus that currently has an IFR no higher than a relatively serious flu season, probably even less than that for Australia).
On the final 2 points, there is currently a public consultation paper out in the UK on allowing unlicensed vaccines to be used for Covid 19 (the ‘consultation’ ends next week).

As you might expect (and hope), this has caused some concern among the general public and medical professionals. Here’s Dr Michael Yeadon’s letter to our beloved Matt Hancock. Shame he gets a bit personal at the end as I think this waters down his message, but it’s still worth a read.

Dear Mr Hancock,

I have a degree in Biochemistry & Toxicology & a research based PhD in pharmacology. I have spent 32years working in pharmaceutical R&D, mostly in new medicines for disorders of lung & skin. I was a VP at Pfizer & CEO of a biotech I founded (Ziarco - acquired by Novartis). I’m knowledgeable about new medicine R&D. I have read the consultation document. I’ve rarely been as shocked & upset.

All vaccines against the SARS-COV-2 virus are by definition novel. No candidate vaccine has been in development for more than a few months. If any such vaccine is approved for use under any circumstances that are not EXPLICITLY experimental, I believe that recipients are being misled to a criminal extent. This is because there are precisely zero human volunteers for whom there could possibly be more than a few months past-dose safety information.

My concern does not arise because I have negative views about vaccines (I don’t). Instead, it’s the very principle that politicians seem ready to waive that new medical interventions - at this, incomplete state of development- should not be made available to subjects on anything other than an explicitly experimental basis. That’s my concern. And the reason for that concern is that it is not known what the safety profile will be, six months or a year or longer after dosing. You have literally no data on this & neither does anyone else.

It isn’t that I’m saying that unacceptable adverse effects will emerge after longer intervals after dosing. No: it is that you have no idea what will happen yet, despite this, you’ll be creating the impression that you do.

Several of the vaccine candidates utilise novel technology which have not previously been used to create vaccines. There is therefore no long term safety data which can be pointed to in support of the notion that it’s reasonable to expedite development & to waive absent safety information on this occasion.

I am suspicious of the motives of those proposing expedited use in the wider human population. We now understand who is at particularly elevated risk of morbidity & mortality from acquiring this virus. Volunteers from these groups only should be provided detailed information about risk / benefit, including the sole point I make here. Only if informed consent is given should any EXPERIMENTAL vaccine be used.

I don’t trust you. You’ve not been straightforward & have behaved appallingly throughout this crisis. You’re still doing it now, misleading about infection risk from young children. Why should I believe you in relation to experimental vaccines?

Dr Michael Yeadon

And if after that, you want to go further on the vaccine trail – particularly with relation to the novel technology Dr Yeadon mentions – this video from Dr Carrie Madej is worth a watch:


Bye for now Chaps. Keep well.
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And repeat, what a load of dangerous crap
 
Just a query.

How many of us on here are absolutely, totally, one hundred percent certain that we do not have an underlying condition?

I went 53 years undiagnosed with asthma... Had covid struck prior to diagnosis, would I have been "safe".

Now consider those people who do have those conditions. Are they merely silent, at home, unproductive, non-contributory to society?

Of course they aren't. They include people of all manner of walks of life. From shop and factory workers to bus drivers to medical staff to teachers and lecturers to social workers to police to absolutely anybody.

The government have really bogged this up but that doesn't mean that it's fine for folk to throw others under the bus in order to allow themselves to enjoy some imagined freedom...

I really do take a dim view of anybody willing to gamble my life against their discomfort in being asked to wear a mask or take another precaution.
 
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