Coronavirus | Page 56 | Vital Football

Coronavirus

Sincilbanks said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53990068

Regular mass testing of people without symptoms is seen by ministers as the best passport to further easing of lockdown restrictions until a vaccine is developed.

Simple kits with rapid results, used weekly, can give assurances people don't have coronavirus. That's what the new funding for trials and pilot schemes is all about - but that's a long-term goal.

It's good they've woken up to the maths of rapid but slightly more unreliable testing as a way out, but really they've just worked out that massive and regular testing is the answer now? NOW? Jesus christ on a bike, we're governed by a group of incompetent idiots...

For those interested in this
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“The way out" is to test more? Are you serious? Have you not seen what's happened in Leicester and the north-west? More testing capacity introduced, more testing of asymptomatic people, more positive cases (on an unreliable test); no increase in deaths and hospitalisations; lockdown and more ruination of education, the economy, mental health, and the health of anyone who doesn't happen to have tested positive for Covid.

So I'm very curious. What makes you think that 'a slightly more unreliable' test would make that situation any better at all?

One other point. You say we're governed by a group of incompetent idiots (which I agree with), but yet you follow all the instructions they set out for you? Why?
 
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Chesterimp said:
Explain that to the family of the otherwise healthy 32 year old my son's A&E doctor girlfriend recently had to zip into a bodybag.
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My mother has friends of friends who had to shut down their business due to the unsustainable losses from the Covid lockdown 3 months ago. In total despair and desperation, they decided that the best way out would be to set fire to their car with themselves locked inside it.

I too deeply sympathise with the friends and loved ones of the 32-year old chap you mentioned. This is a tragedy. But tragedies happen for all kinds of reasons - as I hope this post demonstrates all too clearly.

The statistics are very clear. Deaths of 'otherwise healthy' 32-year olds from Covid alone are incredibly rare in this 'pandemic', and therefore in my view must not be used to guilt-trip people into believing the lockdowns and attacks on basic freedoms are justified.
 
Sincilbanks said:
Meanwhile my partner returned to work yesterday and one of her first jobs today was to "persuade" the head of English that cramming 40-odd students in the library after she'd done every assessment during the holidays that concluded 22 students was the max to fit in and still have social distancing was simply wrong and stupid. This is the second day after the return to school. She also had to move 10 6th form students who simply rearranged the desks to sit near one another so they could chat sans masks.

This is after those same students spent the lockdown and summer having sleepovers, partying and going on holiday.

There is no way any precautions are going to be observed for a fortnight never mind the rest of the term. If we don't catch it in this household it will be a miracle, and I for one will be blaming it at exactly those "healthy 20-30 somethings" who don't seem to give a rats ass for anyone else or for following the rules designed to protect anyone else.

You wouldn't catch me within a million miles of an airport populated by those kinds of people.
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One observation here. I assume your partner wears a mask all day while at school? If that's the case, why do you think it will be 'a miracle' if you don't catch the virus in your household? Are you saying that masks don't work?
 
NottyImp won’t read this as he blocks any opinion or discussion that doesn’t follow his (or The Guardian’s) agenda. However, as his comments here have absolutely disgusted me, I’m going to address him directly just to get this off my chest.

If you want facts, there’s any number out there if you bothered to look. However, as is abundantly clear from your contributions to this thread (i.e. stupid sarcastic comments, personal attacks on people who have views that differ from yours, constant shares of fear-mongering, biased articles from the same source), I would submit that your intelligence and breadth of knowledge and research is so narrow that it is essentially irrelevant.

Therefore, for you to label people (usually with very good statistical evidence to support them) who are questioning the continuing shutdowns, media fear-mongering and damage to society as sociopaths is nothing short of a disgrace.

The vast majority of these people (as was seen at the London protests last Saturday) are honest, caring and hugely concerned about the direction of the Covid response and agenda, not for themselves but for their families, friends and humanity in general. This is of course not reported in the type of media outlets you favour – they’re much keener on labelling anyone who questions the narrative as a far-right, conspiracy theorist, lizard-loving nutter. But as has so often been the case during this crisis, this is simply not representative of what is happening on the ground.

What you appear to be espousing however (often with rather sociopathic levels of aggression and hostility it must be said) is total, unquestioning adherence to government dictates in the name of ‘protecting lives’. When actually, look further and you’ll see that these government dictates (not just in the UK but across the world) have been doing anything but protecting lives.

Seriously, if you or anyone else are that worried about a virus which is now estimated to be less dangerous than taking a bath, then society is now totally set up for you to lock yourself away at home for as long as you see fit.

So why don’t you just get on and do that until your unlicensed vaccine arrives, rather than attacking, insulting and guilt-tripping others who want to try and get on with their lives and rescue what’s left of society?
 
SwedishImp said:
Seriously, if you or anyone else are that worried about a virus which is now estimated to be less dangerous than taking a bath, then society is now totally set up for you to lock yourself away at home for as long as you see fit.
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The source of this "fact" was interviewed yesterday. He was embarrassed to have made a booboo. The comparison should have been with bathing for a year, not taking a single bath.
 
Bazzzer said:
The source of this "fact" was interviewed yesterday. He was embarrassed to have made a booboo. The comparison should have been with bathing for a year, not taking a single bath.
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probably told by the powers that be to do a "u-turn" to keep the public in line . After all u-turns seem to be the in thing :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
SwedishImp said:
One observation here. I assume your partner wears a mask all day while at school? If that's the case, why do you think it will be 'a miracle' if you don't catch the virus in your household? Are you saying that masks don't work?
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Yes she does wear one all day

Because it's a boarding school with boarders who return to all points West in the UK and world during the weekend. The boarding houses do not have any meaningful element of social distancing in them and there hasn't been much attempt to make it so, coupled with all the evidence so far is the students don't give a monkey's about the restrictions placed upon them and this is a text book example of an almost closed society with just enough freedom to catch it elsewhere and bring it into the school. There were already several cases in the school in March as students brought it back from their skiing holidays I see no reason to see why that shouldn't happen again as students mingle outside of school with no thought to the consequences of bringing it in from a wider circle.

Are masks effective? Yes, are masks 100 percent a prevention? No-ones saying that are they? It's about viral dosage and exposure to virus isn't it.

She's effectively in the same position as any public transport worker dealing with a wider community, a good proportion of which aren't interested in following the rules, with no idea of how many of the students / staff might have the virus and even less idea of how many are pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic.

My experience of working for a public transport company shows to me that they are in a high risk profession in relation to their contact with the public. 9 drivers of my company have died so far never mind the quantity that have fallen ill and needed treatment.

She has done everything within her power to keep herself and her staff safe, some of it though is completely beyond her control, like the willingness of her colleagues and the students to follow the rules to the benefit of everyone. We already know there are many people at large (some of whom post on this very thread) who are simply not interested in doing that...
 
A Lincoln United Development squad player has tested positive according to the Echo
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/...-tests-positive-football-lincolnshire-4484933

Further, our local rag reports that two local cricketers have tested positive, tho not from cricket contact - from the village team down the road from us, and where our younger son played before moving away. Interestingly the article states, "The cases are the first reported in local cricket since the recreational game was given the green light to return in July" , which has to be a credit to the way the cricket fraternity have managed things
 
SwedishImp said:
“The way out" is to test more? Are you serious? Have you not seen what's happened in Leicester and the north-west? More testing capacity introduced, more testing of asymptomatic people, more positive cases (on an unreliable test); no increase in deaths and hospitalisations; lockdown and more ruination of education, the economy, mental health, and the health of anyone who doesn't happen to have tested positive for Covid.

So I'm very curious. What makes you think that 'a slightly more unreliable' test would make that situation any better at all?

One other point. You say we're governed by a group of incompetent idiots (which I agree with), but yet you follow all the instructions they set out for you? Why?
Click to expand...

Because we wouldn't need the crippling economic lockdown we have if we had introduced a rigorous and extensive testing regime we had the time to prepare for. The time this government wasted doing absolutely nothing due to it's complete incompetence and inability to take this virus seriously in the time granted to us. I follow the instructions because it's the only logical way to remain safe after our incompetent government dropped the ball completely.

If you read this thread from the beginning I have been completely consistent in this approach, I have advocated rigorous and extensive testing since this thread has been created.

There is extensive evidence that much more of a slightly more unreliable test is easily as statistically effective as a more reliable but less easily available test. Just watch the video for one piece of evidence (and it's not even a BBC or Guardian piece)

Or you can read this:
https://abbott.mediaroom.com/2020-0...amping-Production-to-50-Million-Tests-a-Month
 
And, perhaps if we had a competent government that had even bothered to read the 2016 pandemic report rather than masturbating over Brexit, we would have been better prepared across the board.

The blame for our current predicament lies squarely at the door of Boris Johnson and the Tory party.
 
NottyImp said:
And, perhaps if we had a competent government that had even bothered to read the 2016 pandemic report rather than masturbating over Brexit, we would have been better prepared across the board.

The blame for our current predicament lies squarely at the door of Boris Johnson and the Tory party.
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Johnson is so out of his depth its embarrassing, and we now seem to be run by an unelected head of state. Sadly not HM who could do a better job despite her age, but President Cummings. Yet such is the woeful state of our politics that I'm grateful it's not Corbyn in no 10. And if he's not also grateful, he's even more stupid than he appears to be.
 
Don't know if this has been posted before, or if others have heard it before, but heard the expression "covidiot" earlier today. Telecon with my son and granddaughter about he she got on back at school this week, and that's how he described the lads who are deliberately trying to flout the mask wearing rules.
 
Sincilbanks said:
Because we wouldn't need the crippling economic lockdown we have if we had introduced a rigorous and extensive testing regime we had the time to prepare for. The time this government wasted doing absolutely nothing due to it's complete incompetence and inability to take this virus seriously in the time granted to us. I follow the instructions because it's the only logical way to remain safe after our incompetent government dropped the ball completely.

If you read this thread from the beginning I have been completely consistent in this approach, I have advocated rigorous and extensive testing since this thread has been created.

There is extensive evidence that much more of a slightly more unreliable test is easily as statistically effective as a more reliable but less easily available test. Just watch the video for one piece of evidence (and it's not even a BBC or Guardian piece)

Or you can read this:
https://abbott.mediaroom.com/2020-0...amping-Production-to-50-Million-Tests-a-Month
Click to expand...

No major issue with extensive testing, just as long as higher numbers of asymptomatic/mild 'cases' are not used to implement and justify lockdowns.

Fortunately, Dr Malcolm Kendrick's blog saved me a longer response. I would urge anyone with an interest in the Covid situation (which should be everybody given how we've all been affected) to read this.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/
 
Sincilbanks said:
Yes she does wear one all day

Are masks effective? Yes, are masks 100 percent a prevention? No-ones saying that are they?
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You're right. Even the UK's Deputy Chief Medical Officer says the evidence is "not every strong in either direction."

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/29/evidence-face-coverings-not-strong-says-jenny-harries-13194494/

Although this is a continuation of a gradual watering-down of what she has said previously...

July 2020: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53371441

March 2020: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html

And the Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at Oxford (Sunetra Gupta) believes it's probably better to let children be exposed to the virus anyway:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html

No doubt your partner has done selfless, brilliant and diligent work in getting her school prepared, and I'm sure she is also only following government guidance.

But as you've said repeatedly (and I completely agree), the government are incompetent and don't have a clue what they're doing. So why are they pushing for masks when there appears to be no solid evidence that they actually do any good?

And sorry, but for me, "might be effective" isn't enough of a reason to make them mandatory, especially when there's a good amount of counter evidence to say they "might be harmful" as well.

Maybe it's time - especially given the tiny numbers of serious Covid cases - to give people the choice?
 
Surely, even if quantifiable benefits of mask wearing are unproven, there is likely to be some - perhaps even a small % - reduced transmission, or likelihood of receiving a slightly reduced viral load. That could be a life or death difference for someone.

I don't really see how wearing a mask is being taken to represent the downfall of liberal free society. If anything it should strengthen that society by demonstrating civic responsibility and respect for other people.

In the Far East, mask wearing is normal during flu season, and in Japan many people even wear masks when they have a cold, out of courtesy and respect for other people. Heaven forbid that type of altruism should get in the way of every man for themselves western culture!

But just remember, if you have asymptomatic COVID and are out in the community choosing not to wear a mask, you are inflicting that personal choice on other people. It's the very nature of a community - your decisions affect other people.

Don't worry, at the end of the day we currently have one of the most libertarian PMs in our history. We are not going to be made to wear face masks everywhere we go for ever more! Take one for the team!
 
SwedishImp said:
You're right. Even the UK's Deputy Chief Medical Officer says the evidence is "not every strong in either direction."

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/29/evidence-face-coverings-not-strong-says-jenny-harries-13194494/

Although this is a continuation of a gradual watering-down of what she has said previously...

July 2020: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53371441

March 2020: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html

And the Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at Oxford (Sunetra Gupta) believes it's probably better to let children be exposed to the virus anyway:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html

No doubt your partner has done selfless, brilliant and diligent work in getting her school prepared, and I'm sure she is also only following government guidance.

But as you've said repeatedly (and I completely agree), the government are incompetent and don't have a clue what they're doing. So why are they pushing for masks when there appears to be no solid evidence that they actually do any good?

And sorry, but for me, "might be effective" isn't enough of a reason to make them mandatory, especially when there's a good amount of counter evidence to say they "might be harmful" as well.

Maybe it's time - especially given the tiny numbers of serious Covid cases - to give people the choice?
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*Shrugs* You questioned my reasoning, I answered it. Wearing a mask or not is not the heart of the grim reality of working in close proximity to a bunch of people who couldn't give a rats ass about other peoples safety. The 9 drivers who were working compatriots of mine attest to that...
 
simes69 said:
Surely, even if quantifiable benefits of mask wearing are unproven, there is likely to be some - perhaps even a small % - reduced transmission, or likelihood of receiving a slightly reduced viral load. That could be a life or death difference for someone.

I don't really see how wearing a mask is being taken to represent the downfall of liberal free society. If anything it should strengthen that society by demonstrating civic responsibility and respect for other people.

In the Far East, mask wearing is normal during flu season, and in Japan many people even wear masks when they have a cold, out of courtesy and respect for other people. Heaven forbid that type of altruism should get in the way of every man for themselves western culture!

But just remember, if you have asymptomatic COVID and are out in the community choosing not to wear a mask, you are inflicting that personal choice on other people. It's the very nature of a community - your decisions affect other people.

Don't worry, at the end of the day we currently have one of the most libertarian PMs in our history. We are not going to be made to wear face masks everywhere we go for ever more! Take one for the team!
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"Surely, even if quantifiable benefits of mask wearing are unproven, there is likely to be some - perhaps even a small % - reduced transmission, or likelihood of receiving a slightly reduced viral load. That could be a life or death difference for someone."

I don’t disagree with any of your sentiments at all Simes69. But the reality is there’s just as much evidence out there that masks cause harm as well as reduce risk of infection. SPR have a good repository of fully-referenced research and articles both for and against masks. Worth a quick look just in case you’re thinking I’m talking out of my behind.

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

"In the Far East, mask wearing is normal during flu season, and in Japan many people even wear masks when they have a cold, out of courtesy and respect for other people."

But they still have the same issues with flu as any other country. And while I love Japan and the collectivist spirit of its people, it's also a fact that they - and other countries in the Far East - predominantly wear masks to protect them from pollution and not to protect against infectious disease.

"I don't really see how wearing a mask is being taken to represent the downfall of liberal free society."

I think people's concerns go way beyond that. In terms of psychological impacts, mask-wearing is without doubt the most obvious physical and visual sign that a pandemic and health emergency is still ongoing. We know already from the SAGE minutes that the government want to keep people worried and threatened, and so the mask is probably the best way of keeping that fear and panic going. Obviously this fear will be to varying degrees, but for some people, the fear is massive and life-threatening in itself. Professor Michael Levitt did a good interview on how Covid panic can shorten lives recently, which you can find here:


Honestly if we’re saying wearing a mask ‘could be a life or death difference’, then I’d say the same could be true for not wearing one as well. Don't get me wrong. I’m not against masks completely. If people feel safer wearing them, then wear them. But when the science is so flaky and the psychological effects are potentially so bad, then I absolutely do not think they should be mandatory. And I certainly don't think people should be accused being sociopaths or "not giving a rat's ass" about their fellow man if they chose not to wear one.

"We are not going to be made to wear face masks everywhere we go for ever more!"

I’d encourage you to take a look at Klaus Schwab’s and Thierry Malleret’s book ‘Covid-19: The Great Reset’. Mr Shwab is the head of the powerful and highly-influential World Economic Forum so please be assured this is not a ‘conspiracy theory’. But if his opinion is worth anything, this is set to go on for an awfully long time unless people enforce a change of direction.

https://www.amazon.com/COVID-19-Great-Reset-Klaus-Schwab/dp/2940631123
 
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