ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
I'm adhering to the rules too. I've got just as much right to a hospital bed as your wife
Coronavirus vaccine
- Thread starter Bromley_GFC
- Start date
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Yes, ultimately I agree with you about that.
Which is why, going back to my original post on this today, I was kinda calling for more transparency, and more attention to be given to answering people's questions, allaying people's fears, and debunking dangerous conspiracy theories/misinformation.
If that was happening more then I think the percentage of people refusing to have the vaccine would be very low, probably way below 10% or even 5%.
Captainreblue
Vital 1st Team Regular
As I understand it listening to a scientist yesterday on BBC breakfast, taking the vaccine doesn't actually stop you contracting covid and its still unproven whether it stops you transmitting it to others, but what having the vaccine does do is reduces the severity of it and the likelyhood of you dieing/getting seriously ill from it.
If those that don't want to have the vaccine then fine, take your chances.
If those that don't want to have the vaccine then fine, take your chances.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Is that the case?
I'm not saying that you're wrong but I think it is quite clear that different people are under different impressions about what the vaccine can do, how it works, how long it'll be effective, what the differences are between the different vaccines. who will be given which one, etc., etc.
Is this because the government and the scientists aren't being clear? Or is it because they don't actually really know themselves?
It seems to me that there is widely divergent opinions about the virus and the vaccine amongst the scientific community. There is by no way a consensus of opinion between the scientists. And if that's the case what hope is there of the general population understanding things?
If it really is simply a case of, "Just trust the government, they're here to help", I'm afraid I'm a little sceptical. Sorry.
Nobby_66
Vital Football Hero
Apologies but your post suggested otherwise
Nobby_66
Vital Football Hero
Van Tamm did exactly that on the PMs briefing when the first vaccine came out, hence my quote from him earlier
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Thank you. That's interesting.
Is that something that all (or the majority of scientists) are saying, or is there disagreement about this, do you know?
I thought I'd heard that the vaccine would protect you from catching the virus. But I might have got that wrong.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
I missed that before. Thanks.
shotshy
Vital Champions League
I’m more for grown ups making their own decisions
Nobby_66
Vital Football Hero
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
Thanks for that. I've no idea if the guy is right or even ball park right and probably should not have posted it.
Captainreblue
Vital 1st Team Regular
As I understood it, according to the scientist yesterday (think he was an epidemiologist) he said that you need to contract Covid first which then triggers a response from the vaccination, meaning you still technically get Covid but the chances of getting seriously ill are the % chances the vaccine state.
Agree there are so many conflicting opinions from scientists on what exactly the vaccine achieves its impossible to know who or what to believe bth.
Agree there are so many conflicting opinions from scientists on what exactly the vaccine achieves its impossible to know who or what to believe bth.
jogills
Vital Football Hero
Stop obssessing over Islam and all will become clear
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Thanks nobs.
So there are a couple of things in there that immediately trouble me.
Firstly, this definitely gives the impression that the Oxford vaccine and the Pfizer/Moderno vaccines work in different ways? The latter use, "technology known as mRNA...Using mRNA in this way is a new method." - This relates to my initial questions about how sure can we be that this new technology is safe? It could be brilliant but perhaps it might instead be disasterous? Maybe we wont know until later down the line.
It also relates to my question about who gets to take which vaccine? How is that decided?
Secondly, there are lots of mentions of how effective the vaccines are: Pfizer "95%", Moderno's "94.5%", Oxford "62%" but after a second dose "90%".
Yet here on the BBC they tell us that mathematical models have estimated that between 99 and 99.5% of people recover from the virus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52301633
If this is is true, what's the point in the vaccine for nearly everybody?! Shirley the only people who need to take it are those who might die or get seriously ill?
I'm not anti-vaccine, I just want it explained to me why it is necessary for everybody to have it. I simply don't understand why giving it to the elderly, the vulnerable and the health workers isn't sufficient.
It's not too difficult a question and I jsut want someone to give me an answer!
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Captainreblue
Vital 1st Team Regular
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
You are definitely posting in the right place then - a football fans forum.
What I have seen, phase 1 is to vaccinate the sections of the population that make up the 99% that are at risk of dying. This is done in bands with the eldest going first, and the youngest "at risk" group (50-55) being the last of the 9 groups. After that, stage 2 will be a review and it is then when it will be decided whether the rest (eg under 50 - no health conditions) will be vaccinated.
You need.to wait until it is confirmed that everyone is going to be.vaccinated before asking why. And tbh, you can read up on it yourseld
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
If you're right about that (your first paragraph) then that's completely fair enough. My worry is that it wont be as simple as that and that people who refuse to take the vaccine might have their freedoms (travel, movement, public assembly) curtailed. It'll still be somebody's 'choice' whether or not to have the vaccine but the consequences of not taking it will mean there is actually little 'choice'.
And personally speaking, I really don't want to catch this virus. I'm not elderly or vulnerable but neither am I young or fit. I've abused my body a fair bit during my adult lifetime and I'm pretty sure that if I caught this it would hit me for fcking six. My mum is a helath worker and she caught it months ago. It was really bad. Worse for her husband who ended up in ICU. Bioth have recovered and are fine now, thankfully. So please, don't misunderstand me and think I'm not taking this thing seriously.
It's just I'm a freedom loving guy and have a suspicious mind. Am seriously confused why everyone must take it. If indeed everyone must. And am worried that people might be forced into taking it simply to retain certain freedoms. Or that people will just take it anyway (even if they have doubts, questions or fears) simply because they're so desperate to return to normal life.
I'm well at the back of the queue and not quite sure how they'd call me anyway (I'm not registered with a doctor and have no address). When it does get to be my generation's turn to be jabbed we might know more. I'll probably, though by no means certainly, be contacting them to ask for my jab!
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
Both fair comments. And both mildly amusing too. Thanks.
LockdownLife
Vital Squad Member
The more people that take it then the less the effectiveness of the vaccine matters.
If we nearly all take it and its 90% effective then the unlucky 10% are basically vaccinated through herd immunity. The chains of transmission get decimated, the R number drops and the virus largely dies out.
If not enough of us take it then there is the chance old Doris, who was happy to get vaccinated but falls in the unlucky 10%, dies because not enough of her fellow citizens decided to take the vaccine.
That's the theory anyway.
Currently we're using restrictions to try and break the chains of transmission. But the vaccine will kinda do that for us. IMO therefore if you refuse the vaccine then we still need to use the restrictions on you to break chains.
If you want to drop the R number then you can choose vaccination or restrictions. If you want neither then you need to accept an overwhelmed NHS and deaths of thousands. The government will do what they can but its now really up to us citizens to define what route our country can go down.
If we nearly all take it and its 90% effective then the unlucky 10% are basically vaccinated through herd immunity. The chains of transmission get decimated, the R number drops and the virus largely dies out.
If not enough of us take it then there is the chance old Doris, who was happy to get vaccinated but falls in the unlucky 10%, dies because not enough of her fellow citizens decided to take the vaccine.
That's the theory anyway.
Currently we're using restrictions to try and break the chains of transmission. But the vaccine will kinda do that for us. IMO therefore if you refuse the vaccine then we still need to use the restrictions on you to break chains.
If you want to drop the R number then you can choose vaccination or restrictions. If you want neither then you need to accept an overwhelmed NHS and deaths of thousands. The government will do what they can but its now really up to us citizens to define what route our country can go down.
ARFUR CONNELL
Vital Reserves Team
I hope everyone gets vaccinated. The first wave affected the old in particular, then when it mutated it affected much younger folk. If it mutates again, then who knows how much it will affect even younger people
