Bury | Page 103 | Vital Football

Bury

Anyway in other news now this is sorted there's the small matter of further points deduction for Bolton yet. I'm guessing the EFL will go down one of option 1 - They've been punished enough so not fair to add their twicky icky time or option 2 - It's taken so long to sort this that it would be unfair to give them a further points deduction this far into a season. After all we have to recognise that big club Bolton are the victims here really.
Hope I'm totally wrong on this. Tick tock.
 
hulloutpost said:
Good, glad that's been put to bed by The EFL. Message to clubs - if you cheat and burn don't expect those that you have disadvantaged to bail you out.
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In a nutshell. Their plea for 'compassion' from the other clubs was the epitome of delusion.

"There are owners and chief executives in that room today who run their club in a proper way financially, efficient and sustainable and it is only right we think of their needs as well."

I would love to know what the numbers from the vote were.
 
hulloutpost said:
Anyway in other news now this is sorted there's the small matter of further points deduction for Bolton yet. I'm guessing the EFL will go down one of option 1 - They've been punished enough so not fair to add their twicky icky time or option 2 - It's taken so long to sort this that it would be unfair to give them a further points deduction this far into a season. After all we have to recognise that big club Bolton are the victims here really.
Hope I'm totally wrong on this. Tick tock.
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There's a good article in today's Daily Mail about the EFL and references this. For some reason their case has to be heard by an independent disciplinary panel. This hasn't been convened yet, but once it is it will be looking at both their cancelled game from this season and also the one against Brentford from last season. Article suggests further points deductions are highly likely.
 
I don't think Bury were ever going to get put back into League 2 with all that has gone on. And with Dale still in charge, no one is going to help him out. But I feel that the system that is in place has ultimately punished the wrong people - namely the fans, the staff and the town. They are the football club, not the owners who have got them into this mess, and I still feel a lot of sympathy for them.

There's no doubt that Bury have gained an unfair advantage over the years, which in turn has disadvantaged other teams, and they now have to face the consequences. But this has been allowed to happen due to poor and weak governance by the EFL.

If the situation was reversed, would any of us just shrug our shoulder and say "well, we've gained an unfair advantage over the years as a result of our dodgy owners, so lets pack it all in, forget about the last 135 years and just start a new phoenix club"? I certainly wouldn't.
 
It will be interesting to see now what happens to the club. Dale has to face up to the option of making payments to those named in the CVA or winding up the club (notwithstanding the ongoing investigations into his actions). The buyers who are lining up around the corner to buy Bury the EFL club, now won't be willing to spend quite as much for a 7th tier club. Will he sell up just to get out, or will he be forced to cut his losses in the face of making those payments, or will he make the payments in order to keep control of the real estate, or (finally) will legal challenges take the ball away and leave him out in the cold regardless?

Quite frankly, I don't really care, but somehow I would prefer an option where Dale doesn't benefit from overseeing the demise of the club.
 
Edinburgh_Imp said:
I don't think Bury were ever going to get put back into League 2 with all that has gone on. And with Dale still in charge, no one is going to help him out. But I feel that the system that is in place has ultimately punished the wrong people - namely the fans, the staff and the town. They are the football club, not the owners who have got them into this mess, and I still feel a lot of sympathy for them.

There's no doubt that Bury have gained an unfair advantage over the years, which in turn has disadvantaged other teams, and they now have to face the consequences. But this has been allowed to happen due to poor and weak governance by the EFL.

If the situation was reversed, would any of us just shrug our shoulder and say "well, we've gained an unfair advantage over the years as a result of our dodgy owners, so lets pack it all in, forget about the last 135 years and just start a new phoenix club"? I certainly wouldn't.
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There was certainly at least 1 Darlington fan who used to pop up on here when their cheating was in full swing. He loved that they were spending money they knew they could not afford in an attempt to get promoted, also said if it goes wrong they will pick up the pieces and start again. Went by the name of Quakerz if memory serves. There really is no hope for some.
 
cherryexile said:
It will be interesting to see now what happens to the club. Dale has to face up to the option of making payments to those named in the CVA or winding up the club (notwithstanding the ongoing investigations into his actions). The buyers who are lining up around the corner to buy Bury the EFL club, now won't be willing to spend quite as much for a 7th tier club. Will he sell up just to get out, or will he be forced to cut his losses in the face of making those payments, or will he make the payments in order to keep control of the real estate, or (finally) will legal challenges take the ball away and leave him out in the cold regardless?

Quite frankly, I don't really care, but somehow I would prefer an option where Dale doesn't benefit from overseeing the demise of the club.
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He can write off a huge chunk of that, can't he? Isn't a company he owns one of the largest creditors? Personally hope he ends up behind bars as happened to the crook at Darlington.
 
RedImp73 said:
There's a good article in today's Daily Mail about the EFL and references this. For some reason their case has to be heard by an independent disciplinary panel. This hasn't been convened yet, but once it is it will be looking at both their cancelled game from this season and also the one against Brentford from last season. Article suggests further points deductions are highly likely.
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An independent panel ???
Surely the Football League has rules?
All other leagues deduct points and deduct them promptly if a team fails to fulfil a fixture.
 
Impartiality said:
He can write off a huge chunk of that, can't he? Isn't a company he owns one of the largest creditors? Personally hope he ends up behind bars as happened to the crook at Darlington.
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There is the possibility that the acquiring of the CVA using votes that were effectively himself could be deemed improper and improper to the extent of being illegal.
I think its currently under investigation.
 
RedImp73 said:
There's a good article in today's Daily Mail about the EFL and references this. For some reason their case has to be heard by an independent disciplinary panel. This hasn't been convened yet, but once it is it will be looking at both their cancelled game from this season and also the one against Brentford from last season. Article suggests further points deductions are highly likely.
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Looked online at the article. A few bleaters supporting Notlob on the comments section. ' if it was their club etcetc', ' scared of Notlob making up the points blah de blah ', 'kick a team when its down drivvel, drivvel'. They still have delusions of grandeur. No doubt they forget their one time chairman or whatever position he held, who said words to the effect of not wanting relegation from the premiership, whilst they bimbled about in that league. All the crap about u23 players and their health & safety, Jeez it was for one match!. Them and Bury have opened a can of worms.
 
There is a good piece on the BBC news website about Bury fans. Afraid I'm not computer wise to put it on this site.
 
That MP is a piece of work talking about ‘self interest’. Probably never set foot in Gigg Lane, if he’d taken even a passing interest in the club over the previous 10 years he might have been able to intervene in its appalling management.
 
They're now trying to get into the NL, and if they think the EFL treated them harshly...

Amazing how many people want to help after the horse has bolted.

As the Accrington Chairman says, the MP's want Bury back in the EFL under the same owner and *then* look at a deal when they should have been asked for re-entry with a new deal in place and even then unlikely to be let back in.
 
Luke Imp said:
They're now trying to get into the NL, and if they think the EFL treated them harshly...

Amazing how many people want to help after the horse has bolted.

As the Accrington Chairman says, the MP's want Bury back in the EFL under the same owner and *then* look at a deal when they should have been asked for re-entry with a new deal in place and even then unlikely to be let back in.
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Can't see the Conference taking them. They're generally stricter than the EFL.
 
Luke Imp said:
They're now trying to get into the NL, and if they think the EFL treated them harshly...

Amazing how many people want to help after the horse has bolted.

As the Accrington Chairman says, the MP's want Bury back in the EFL under the same owner and *then* look at a deal when they should have been asked for re-entry with a new deal in place and even then unlikely to be let back in.
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Yeah where are all those buyers he apparently had lined up when they were wanting an extended deadline...
 
hulloutpost said:
Anyway in other news now this is sorted there's the small matter of further points deduction for Bolton yet. I'm guessing the EFL will go down one of option 1 - They've been punished enough so not fair to add their twicky icky time or option 2 - It's taken so long to sort this that it would be unfair to give them a further points deduction this far into a season. After all we have to recognise that big club Bolton are the victims here really.
Hope I'm totally wrong on this. Tick tock.
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Unfair on the other 22 teams who do not know where they are in relation to BWFC in the table.
Really unfair to Donny rovers and their fans who had the fixture pulled who no notice and don't know what's happening with the re-arrangement.
Damn, I can't say that though, because of course Bolton are the victims here.
 
And if Bolton claw their way into survival contention only to eventually suffer another huge points deduction, I'd have some sympathy with the fans and new management team - but this should have been addressed weeks ago now so everyone understands exactly where they stand.
 
Edinburgh_Imp said:
There's no doubt that Bury have gained an unfair advantage over the years, which in turn has disadvantaged other teams, and they now have to face the consequences. But this has been allowed to happen due to poor and weak governance by the EFL.
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I think there has to be a caveat with that, though. There is no way the EFL or anyone else could have foreseen the degree of financial profligacy going on at Bury. For a lower division club with 3,000 fans to be £17 million in debt can only be the result of wrongful trading - deliberate misfeasance - and to a catastrophic extent.

The EFL has traditionally granted its members an element of trust: that they will manage their affairs with at least some prudence. The rules will probably have to change now, but there has to be some element of self-help too: to blame the EFL for Bury's plight, as the deluded Forever Bury movement and one embarrassing MP would have you believe, is simply wrong. The (allegedly overwhelming) majority vote against Bury yesterday tells you exactly what the other members think of that concept. Bury's demise is quite simply the result of a deliberate decision to cheat everyone else - HMRC, football clubs, football supporters, the general public, local businesses, charities and individuals - and there are several people associated with the club in the last ten years who are either responsible or complicit. An investigation - ideally a criminal one - into the running of the club during that time would certainly lay the blame at the correct doors.

The conduct of a club must be indivisible from its owners, otherwise there can be no culpability and everyone is free to cheat everyone else with impunity.
 
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