Bundesliga and Brexit | Vital Football

Bundesliga and Brexit

B

BrickLatic

Vital Squad Member
just copied this headline i saw from a paper. its self explantery.

Germany's Bundesliga to EXPLIOT Hard Brexit and overtake Premier League

now then. whose in the no about german footy. furst does anybody think this could hapen. $ky money and all that keeps it in uk but rules make it harder. second. if it did hapen would it be good/bad for uk footy and teems like ares etc. whats the vewe then. rubbish or bring it on.
 
I've read plenty project fear and i suspect this is more of them same have you got the link full article to see the logic?

TBH from all we are hearing May and Robbins are trying very hard to ensure we leave the EU in name only if at all, so i dont think that much will change economically or with freedom of movement.

The Prem is by far the most lucarative league in the world and not so long ago i read an article that pointed out that even the lowest Prem side were considered amoungst the biggest income earners in Europe. I can't remember exactly but i think it was something like all 20 Prem clubs were in the top 30 clubs for income in world football based on the huge tv income. So I can't see how Brexit would effect that as people all over the world will continue to watch the league regardless of anything else.

If the story was suggesting freedom of movment would be an issue then i think that is very naive. May and Robins have already floated Freedom of Movement under a different name or preferential access to EU migration. Immigration minister Caroline Nokes even said she thinks freedom of movmenet will have to continue for the forseable future (as basically the govenment have made zero effort to work out any preperations or system to handle it). Then even if we did get the points based immigration system some Brexiteers have said we should implement all the top footballers would likely fulfil the criteria to come in for earning potential and the tax revnue they would pay. The only players who i could see being impacted by a points based system would be young players coming over to play in youth systems who are going to be on little to no money and developed into first teamers in years to come. So the FOM removal would likely make it harder for the top Prem sides to stock their youth systems with loads of promising European talent - that i think would be the main way the Bundeliga could reap a benefit. But it would probably help young British talent too.

The only thing i can think that Brexit could impact would be if the worst project fear predictions came true and the value of the pound dropped significantly it would mean buying players from Europe woud be more expensive. Due to the wealth provided by the Prem league deal the pound would have to drop massively for it to get to the point where our clubs would no longer be able to afford to sign top players and thus impact the popularity of the league. But a good example of football not being completely dependent on the economy is Italy and Spains economies are not in great health and haven't been for some time but they still boast massive wealthy clubs and have had the likes of Ronaldo, Messi playing there for years.

But if we did leave the EU and go to WTO terms the value of the pound would depend on quite a lot of factors. If we dropped corporation tax, deregulating in certain areas or removed all tariffs unilaterally like Singapore (as suggested by some Brexiteers) it would make us us drastically more competative than any EU country and trade with the rest of the world easier, likely attracting extra investment and businesses from the continent to move HQ's here. Then you assume there is a very good chance we would be able to agree to roll over existing EU third country trade deals with the likes of Canada, South Korea, Japan and Singapore (both not yet ratified) as neither ourselves or those countries would want to suffer any disruption. Plus the desire to sign new trade deals and that's not counting the option of any changing of interst rates or quantitative easing, or the trouble the EU would face as their current budget immedietely becomes insolvent if we left without any EU 'devorce' 40b payment. Add to the carnage that could be about to hit the Eurozone with the Italians planning to implement a budget that the EU have rejected while the ECB is still buying 5b a month in toxic debtor (down from 30b in September) any potential trade war between the EU and USA. All of those factors will effect the value of the pound and the Euro to varying degrees - so while the initial annoucnement of there being a WTO Brexit would see the pound drop in value immedietely there are so many variables it's near impossible to predict how much it would drop and for how long.

To be honest our big issue is the govenment are trying to poison the idea of anything other than Mays Chequers BINO deal. If that ever did get binned offand they had to make the best of a WTO Brexit i think they'd drastically change the way they are behaving and i think that ultimately everything would be fine after an initial recalibration period. But i think if we ever did start to plan for a genuine WTO Brexit we'd end up with a Canda Plus deal - which i think is the best outcome and leave the Premier Leauge uneffected and actually lead to a rise in the pound in the not to distant futue.
 
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BrickLatic said:
sorry king. should of put the link up with it. saw it when i was mooching about champ legue stuff.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...loit-premier-league-player-exodus-gareth-bale
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Thanks Brick, the theory is assuming that we would apply identical methods to signing current non EU players to all EU players after Brexit. I don't think that's likely to be honest - i think that if we ever got control of our boarders the whole immigration system would be overhauled.

At the moment I think brining in non EU workers into the UK is made deliberetly harder as the government has no control over EU migration and it's a poor attempt to balance things out - but i would imagine that football work permits would become much easier and the rules relaxed compared to what than they currently are.

As it stands nearly every half decent non EU player gets a work permit anyway and the UK government is not going to start turning away loads of players who would arrive and immedietely be paying huge tax revenues into the treasury. They say about 70% of the Premier League is foreign and the average wage is now 50k, and for arguments sake lets say every squad has 30 players in it and everyone of them is paying the top rate of tax and National Insurance (45% +12%) - when you put all that together it's well over 600m in potential tax revenue from foregin footballers in the Prem wages alone - before extra sponsorships, bonuses, etc. Granted i'm sure more than a few of those players have some creative accounting that exploits dubious but legal tax loop holes that politicans and celebs do - but whatever they take in reality it is a huge sum no UK government would want to lose. I suspect footballers would be granted special status as highly skilled workers and largely welcomed with open arms from a pure financial incentive.

So the guys theory about Brexit working out so badly for UK football is largely based on the UK Government creating a set of rules that would cut off their nose to spite their face. I know the Government is hopeless but when there is 600m sitting on the table i dont think they are that hopless they would throw it away especially when the latest budget has gone on something of a spending spree and they are now planning on borrowing more than previously expected - every penny will be needed.
 
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I'll refrain from the Brexit debate, however the article is somewhat fantastical. Unless there is an explosion in wealth of the Bundeslliga clubs then they still wouldn't be able to afford the talent that PL clubs currently pay. The attraction of the PL is the 6 or so huge clubs that have worldwide appeal and its competitive nature. Regardless in amongst the negotiations I'm sure the government have assured the PL there would be exemptions on freedom of movement for footballers, given the relative few numbers and the impact they have on the economy. Perhaps the quoted source of the article should be concentrating his efforts on innovative ways of making the bundesliga more competitive considering its won by the same club every year.
 
cheers king and miw. good to get input on sommart that made me think it were a possiblety. more cleer now. shouldnt need to embarass meyself in the alehouse at the weekend.
 
pies'r'us said:
I think Nigel Farage is a secret latics supporter and he's on this forum under the name of....
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I reckon there are a few UKIP sympathisers on this forum. I think there could well be issues regarding the freedom of movement of Labour. The bottom line is the footballers are in the same predicament as any other migrant workers. They can't be an exception to the rule.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
I reckon there are a few UKIP sympathisers on this forum. I think there could well be issues regarding the freedom of movement of Labour. The bottom line is the footballers are in the same predicament as any other migrant workers. They can't be an exception to the rule.
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The govt have assured the PL there will be.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Can't really argue with that.
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The UK Government has assured the EU that Freedom of movement wont change, along with anything else, they've also apparently been planning to give over some of our decision making powers over taxes - which is very concerning.

So English clubs and players getting getting hit by rising corp and personal tax rates dictated by the EU and enacted by May if she somehow got her BINO through is something clubs and players should probably worry about more than FOM issues in the event of a WTO situation.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The UK Government has assured the EU that Freedom of movement wont change, along with anything else, they've also apparently been planning to give over some of our decision making powers over taxes - which is very concerning.

So English clubs and players getting getting hit by rising corp and personal tax rates dictated by the EU and enacted by May if she somehow got her BINO through is something clubs and players should probably worry about more than FOM issues in the event of a WTO situation.
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One of the sticking points in the EU that has prevented further integration has been the unwillingness of member States to agree to a common fiscal policy, including taxes. Hence, countries in the EU tend to have different tax rates e.g. VAT, Income Tax, Corporation Tax etc. Also, countries have different public spending programmes e.g. The UK has a much lower State Pension than Germany or Scandinavian countries. Also, Countries like Finland spend more on education and health care per capita than we do. To suggest that the EU dictates tax rates etc is simply wrong.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
One of the sticking points in the EU that has prevented further integration has been the unwillingness of member States to agree to a common fiscal policy, including taxes. Hence, countries in the EU tend to have different tax rates e.g. VAT, Income Tax, Corporation Tax etc. Also, countries have different public spending programmes e.g. The UK has a much lower State Pension than Germany or Scandinavian countries. Also, Countries like Finland spend more on education and health care per capita than we do. To suggest that the EU dictates tax rates etc is simply wrong.
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I know they currently don't, which is why i never said they did.

The point was specifically the EU is currently asking to have a say in UK tax system to avoid us being able to take any competative advantage once we leave as part of Mays BINO 'devorce agreement' and according to all the sources that have spoken about it it's not been rejected out of hand like it should. If we conceeded that then there is no doubt the EU would push for us to bring our corp taxes (currently 19%dropping it to 18% in 2020) in line with the with the EU average of nearly 26%. So UK clubs and businesses would face a very real risk of seeing an additional 7% of their profits taxed than they currently do.

Junkers Septeber State of the Union speach stated the agenda was to appoint an EU wide Chancellor as part of their goal to integrate further financially including things such as taxes. May's deal is potentially going to skip a pile of steps that the other EU countries haven't gone through yet and jump to the end destination where the EU has a say in domestic countries taxation decision making. Effectively Chequers give the EU more control over our tax system than the EU have over any EU state currently - it's madness and no one on either side of the Leave or Remain debate should be happy with such a crazy concession.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I know they currently don't, which is why i never said they did.

The point was specifically the EU is currently asking to have a say in UK tax system to avoid us being able to take any competative advantage once we leave as part of Mays BINO 'devorce agreement' and according to all the sources that have spoken about it it's not been rejected out of hand like it should. If we conceeded that then there is no doubt the EU would push for us to bring our corp taxes (currently 19%dropping it to 18% in 2020) in line with the with the EU average of nearly 26%. So UK clubs and businesses would face a very real risk of seeing an additional 7% of their profits taxed than they currently do.

Junkers Septeber State of the Union speach stated the agenda was to appoint an EU wide Chancellor as part of their goal to integrate further financially including things such as taxes. May's deal is potentially going to skip a pile of steps that the other EU countries haven't gone through yet and jump to the end destination where the EU has a say in domestic countries taxation decision making. Effectively Chequers give the EU more control over our tax system than the EU have over any EU state currently - it's madness and no one on either side of the Leave or Remain debate should be happy with such a crazy concession.
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Allegedly, a major reason why people like Reece-Mogg, Johnson and others are so anti the EU is the tax avoidance measures that the EU is planning will make it more difficult for them to avoid tax paying tax altogether. Similarly, as you say, Corporation Tax will be used as a last resort means of attracting foreign investment into the UK. We will be much less attractive to foreign businesses if we do leave. The EU is the richest consumer market in the world.

A major reason why we have attracted so many top footballers into the EPL is the fact that they have been given low/no tax deals. I would think that those deals will still be on offer IF the players can get hold of work permits and or visas. This is still not clear, but I think, as specialist, highly skilled workers, they will be allowed in.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The UK Government has assured the EU that Freedom of movement wont change, along with anything else, they've also apparently been planning to give over some of our decision making powers over taxes - which is very concerning.

So English clubs and players getting getting hit by rising corp and personal tax rates dictated by the EU and enacted by May if she somehow got her BINO through is something clubs and players should probably worry about more than FOM issues in the event of a WTO situation.
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The EU has no jurisdiction on personal or corporate tax rates now, in the past or in the future. So looks like "project fear" form the Brexit side
 
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