Brexit rolls on...

[da fuq]

Copied

The refrigerated trucks will have to keep their engines running -> very polluting. They will also therefore need extra fuel, so there will have to be massive fuel supplies available.
The drivers will need toilets and food, at a minimum. The government will more or less need to build a small motorway service station for them all.
One park will, however, be nowhere near enough.
The whole thing just shows up the complete insanity of Brexit.

 

[da fuq]

Trump is not necessarily stupid but he is extremely thick. He also suffers from not knowing what he wants.

You are the one being fooled if you believe that this is all some master plan, that he is a seriously intelligent guy playing a role and duping people like me into underestimating him. He isnt. It's not an act.

He really is as unintelligent as he looks. He is an animal, who has spent his life living off pure instinct. It says so much about America that a man so totally devoid of any appreciable talents who lives totally of instinct has been able to remain exceptionally rich and actually grow in power, simply by nature of having started with a lot of money and the brazen assumption he will always have it as well as power and authority.

Everything he has done has demonstrated the weakness of the American system, the sycophancy of the Republicans and the awe in which Americans hold anyone with money; not Trump's genius.

If Putin was in Trump's position the fall of democracy would have been a foregone conclusion right now. Trump is merely acting on instinct that he can't stand to lose and needs the adoration. Don't overestimate him. His party is vastly more dangerous

Never said he was an intelligent guy however there are people far more intelligent and far more dangerous behind him and the Con is happening

FFS he became the President

How did he manage that

With smart media management and targeting the areas they needed to win

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Never said he was an intelligent guy however there are people far more intelligent and far more dangerous behind him and the Con is happening

FFS he became the President

How did he manage that

With smart media management and targeting the areas they needed to win

I agree there are smarter people behind him, but is he smart enough to listen to them when they contradict his instinct?

He needs a Dominic Cummings... But if classic Dom worked for Trump, Donald would have sacked him by now in a fit of pique.

By overestimation of Trump you also overestimate his opponents, and that is more dangerous. Part of the American dream died after 2008 and 8 years of Obama was not long enough to revive it, especially with an obstructionalist republican party.

They then put up a poor candidate over a populist promising things everyone knows can't be produced, but who want to imagine they can anyway. That's how he wins in 2016.

A black president came 20-40 years too early. There is still a segregationalist white boomer generation with money and venom who could never accept it. The dangerous thing is that the republicans have grown the belief that the Democrats are so dangerous to their ideology of America that any measure is justified to keep them out of power; even ending democracy itself.

The Tory party were going exactly the same way with Labour under Corbyn; any means, Including circumventing democracy and electing a narcissistic demogogue, were justified to keep him out. Why do you think I was so keen to see the back of him? It's deadly for democracy

 

[Apollyon]

I was once in a Sleaford Mods video. Does anyone admire me for that? I do hope so.

 

[Basha73]

I agree there are smarter people behind him, but is he smart enough to listen to them when they contradict his instinct?

He needs a Dominic Cummings... But if classic Dom worked for Trump, Donald would have sacked him by now in a fit of pique.

By overestimation of Trump you also overestimate his opponents, and that is more dangerous. Part of the American dream died after 2008 and 8 years of Obama was not long enough to revive it, especially with an obstructionalist republican party.

They then put up a poor candidate over a populist promising things everyone knows can't be produced, but who want to imagine they can anyway. That's how he wins in 2016.

A black president came 20-40 years too early. There is still a segregationalist white boomer generation with money and venom who could never accept it. The dangerous thing is that the republicans have grown the belief that the Democrats are so dangerous to their ideology of America that any measure is justified to keep them out of power; even ending democracy itself.

The Tory party were going exactly the same way with Labour under Corbyn; any means, Including circumventing democracy and electing a narcissistic demogogue, were justified to keep him out. Why do you think I was so keen to see the back of him? It's deadly for democracy

One of the less publicised or talked about issues in America was the fact that because Obama’s colour was such an issue for such a large number of Americans, the fact that Trump’s opponent was female also made his campaign easier.

There was no way that the lowest common denominator Americans were going to vote in a female president straight after having had a black one. The only surprise was that she came as close as she did to winning.

I hate the thought that these things are such an issue for so many people but at the same time I am under no illusion that our country is that much different under the surface.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Johnson's brother given a peerage and Theresa May's husband a knighthood. FFS.

Get rid of the honours system. It is laughably corrupt under any government of any party, including the opposition.

Get rid of the house of Lords. Replace it with a regional assembly for the upper chamber; two elected members from every county of the country, anyone who has ever been a member of or affiliated with a political party is ineligible to stand. Majority voting, but if three counties in the same wider geographical district vote against a policy it has to be amended and sent back to the commons.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Johnson's brother given a peerage and Theresa May's husband a knighthood. FFS.

Get rid of the honours system. It is laughably corrupt under any government of any party, including the opposition.

Get rid of the house of Lords. Replace it with a regional assembly for the upper chamber; two elected members from every county of the country, anyone who has ever been a member of or affiliated with a political party is ineligible to stand. Majority voting, but if three counties in the same wider geographical district vote against a policy it has to be amended and sent back to the commons.

I generally approve of a grown up chamber moderating the occasional recklessness of the HoC and I'm not sure that elected representatives are always the best people do to that. However, it does rely on selections being reasonably free from corruption and, as with so many things, faith in the decision makers is being cut into pieces as it goes down the waste disposal.

Evgeny Lebedev?! Surely that was only a flimsy attempt to draw fire from Claire Fox and Phillip TheBinMan May?

 

[ZedRed]

I was once in a Sleaford Mods video. Does anyone admire me for that? I do hope so.

I used to see Jason knocking about quite a bit in the early 2000s.

How is he these days chap?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Wow, just read this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...epstein?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Samsung_Internet

Epstein allegedly sexually trafficked the girl to powerful people to “ingratiate himself with them for business, personal, political and financial gain, as well as to obtain potential blackmail information”. They included “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”

That could be very explosive if/when the name gets out. In Epstein's timeframe there are only a very limited number of men that can possibly be.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Johnson's brother given a peerage and Theresa May's husband a knighthood. FFS.

Get rid of the honours system. It is laughably corrupt under any government of any party, including the opposition.

Get rid of the house of Lords. Replace it with a regional assembly for the upper chamber; two elected members from every county of the country, anyone who has ever been a member of or affiliated with a political party is ineligible to stand. Majority voting, but if three counties in the same wider geographical district vote against a policy it has to be amended and sent back to the commons.

I most certainly would make changes to the honours system and the HoL but I think a second elected chamber would be disastrous for democracy.

Having people who are not at the whim of the media and public, who are experts in their field is an incredibly important check and balance.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Wow, just read this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...epstein?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Samsung_Internet

Epstein allegedly sexually trafficked the girl to powerful people to “ingratiate himself with them for business, personal, political and financial gain, as well as to obtain potential blackmail information”. They included “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”

That could be very explosive if/when the name gets out. In Epstein's timeframe there are only a very limited number of men that can possibly be.

Could be Thatcher?!

Could be a non-British Prime Minister?

And could be bollocks anyway. They will need a few more testimonies than the one that is most often cited.


Clinton will be sweating a bit today. He crops up frequently!

 

[ZedRed]

Could be Thatcher?!

Could be a non-British Prime Minister?

And could be bollocks anyway. They will need a few more testimonies than the one that is most often cited.


Clinton will be sweating a bit today. He crops up frequently!

Perhaps like Prince Andrew, he might not be able to.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I most certainly would make changes to the honours system and the HoL but I think a second elected chamber would be disastrous for democracy.

Having people who are not at the whim of the media and public, who are experts in their field is an incredibly important check and balance.

That's a fair point actually.

I do like the idea of having individual regions represented though, so that regional concerns actually have a real voice on a very London centric government. Individual MPs can speak up but can't vote down legislation that doesn't suit their area.

But you have a good point about experts being involved as well.

Number one is that the sitting government must not be the ones that appoint members of the HoL. But that leaves the question; who does choose them? The Monarch?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

That's a fair point actually.

I do like the idea of having individual regions represented though, so that regional concerns actually have a real voice on a very London centric government. Individual MPs can speak up but can't vote down legislation that doesn't suit their area.

But you have a good point about experts being involved as well.

Number one is that the sitting government must not be the ones that appoint members of the HoL. But that leaves the question; who does choose them? The Monarch?

Maybe a compromise with half regionally represented though PR every x amount of years.

Then a cross party group to decide on the experts and number of each needed: economists, teachers, farmers, philosophers teachers, scientists etc. Then have their respective trade bodies decide on the representatives.

I do think we'd still miss the upper class element of actually not caring what anybody else thinks.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Maybe a compromise with half regionally represented though PR every x amount of years.

Then a cross party group to decide on the experts and number of each needed: economists, teachers, farmers, philosophers teachers, scientists etc. Then have their respective trade bodies decide on the representatives.

I do think we'd still miss the upper class element of actually not caring what anybody else thinks.

Maybe we could include the 30 highest value landholders in the country.

That would shock people when they saw who they were and how many were Chinese or Russian (I suspect)

 

[JC21]

Would also be curious to see JC answer.

I kinda wish this thread would just die a death to be honest, but I will give you an answer when I get round to it

 

[weejockmcplop]

Wow, just read this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...epstein?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Samsung_Internet

Epstein allegedly sexually trafficked the girl to powerful people to “ingratiate himself with them for business, personal, political and financial gain, as well as to obtain potential blackmail information”. They included “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders.”

That could be very explosive if/when the name gets out. In Epstein's timeframe there are only a very limited number of men that can possibly be.

I hate to be that guy but this is a conspiracy and goes much deeper than most in the press are asking about.

No-one knows where Epstein got his money from, there's no financial records for all the high value trades he was supposed to have made, and the guy who got him a lenient deal in 2007 or whenever it was said:

Acosta later said he offered a lenient plea deal because he was told that Epstein "belonged to intelligence", was "above his pay grade," and to "leave it alone"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Acosta

Maxwell's dad was a CIA man too. Epstein was also hired as a teacher (despite being unqualified) by the father of attorney general Barr, who also worked for the CIA.

Its pretty clear that this is an intelligence operation of some kind.

 

[pebble]

I hate to be that guy but this is a conspiracy and goes much deeper than most in the press are asking about.

No-one knows where Epstein got his money from, there's no financial records for all the high value trades he was supposed to have made, and the guy who got him a lenient deal in 2007 or whenever it was said:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Acosta

Maxwell's dad was a CIA man too. Epstein was also hired as a teacher (despite being unqualified) by the father of attorney general Barr, who also worked for the CIA.

Its pretty clear that this is an intelligence operation of some kind.

Dylan still cares about JFK, hence 'Murder most foul'. That spurred me to read 'Deep politics and the death of JFK' by Peter Dale Scott (Professor of English at the University of California).

Bit of a brain-number, so many names ( he doesn't for one second believe Oswald killed JFK, but he's not going to speculate on who really planned it), but an interesting angle on Watergate. Scott suggests the original plan was to compromise Democratic politicians by providing call girls and bugging the encounters, which he says was normal practice for the Mob (with tacit approval from the CIA and the FBI).

He says Nixon was damned, like JFK, for wanting to pull out of Vietnam. They just turned it on its head, exposed the buggers, and brought him down.

But the underlying sleaze and potential blackmail no doubt still goes on. Epstein might just be a more recent exponent.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Dylan still cares about JFK, hence 'Murder most foul'. That spurred me to read 'Deep politics and the death of JFK' by Peter Dale Scott (Professor of English at the University of California).

Bit of a brain-number, so many names ( he doesn't for one second believe Oswald killed JFK, but he's not going to speculate on who really planned it), but an interesting angle on Watergate. Scott suggests the original plan was to compromise Democratic politicians by providing call girls and bugging the encounters, which he says was normal practice for the Mob (with tacit approval from the CIA and the FBI).

He says Nixon was damned, like JFK, for wanting to pull out of Vietnam. They just turned it on its head, exposed the buggers, and brought him down.

But the underlying sleaze and potential blackmail no doubt still goes on. Epstein might just be a more recent exponent.

That doesn't fit with with narrative of the end of the war though.

America withdrew from Vietnam in 73. That was a year after Watergate broke, but long before it got anywhere near the president.

And certainly when I was teaching/reading about Vietnam I never came across any indications that there was any strong opinions to stay.

America had been bled out by the war with no victory likely. Nixon promised Peace with honour in 68 and 72. Everyone knew that meant getting out with an acceptable period of time before South Vietnam fell. It fell in 75, so he got that. I just don't see any shadow group who expected anything better

 

[pebble]

That doesn't fit with with narrative of the end of the war though.

America withdrew from Vietnam in 73. That was a year after Watergate broke, but long before it got anywhere near the president.

And certainly when I was teaching/reading about Vietnam I never came across any indications that there was any strong opinions to stay.

America had been bled out by the war with no victory likely. Nixon promised Peace with honour in 68 and 72. Everyone knew that meant getting out with an acceptable period of time before South Vietnam fell. It fell in 75, so he got that. I just don't see any shadow group who expected anything better

I take your point, but the author has clearly read an awful lot and appears to know what he's talking about.

It just struck me that I'd never heard of Watergate described as a plot which originally had another goal, but was turned around to unseat Nixon.

One thing Peter Dale Scott's book does is increase my respect for James Ellroy's trilogy which presents the same history in a fictionalised form. Bugging and blackmail are part of the narrative. Epstein therefore seems to fit neatly into the narrative, which is frankly too nasty for me to really want to contemplate.