Brexit rolls on...

[JC21]

Bad, because long term they will result in less competition which will only benefit the huge German manufacturers.

Anyway back to the question:

Just as a matter of interest are you aware of the what the actual tariffs will be and how they are implemented?

For example:

How much will be levied on a saleable vehicle?

How much will be levied on a component?

I'm guessing you do not know.

You're not making any sense, how can a 'benefit' be bad for them?

How come Audi, BMW, Merc, VW etc DON'T want the tariffs if it will benefit them?

I may be wrong about this but I thought WTO tariffs for cars and parts was 10%

 

[Strett]

Nissan are already doing it...

https://www.business-live.co.uk/man...arebar&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sharebar

This will be great for U.K. jobs and the environment. Set up manufacturing parts next to the plants.

 

[Strett]

I've only ever driven an A class and that was ~10 years ago.

It’s a stalk on the steering wheel (assuming automatic, as 99% of Mercs are)

 

[mao tse tung]

I remember a drive (pardon the pun) to have over 50% of parts used in U.K. car production to be manufactured in the U.K., by 2022.

Parts suppliers are split into two catagories; those who supply direct in bulk, mainly foreign, and those who supply parts on a just in time basis, who typically need to be located within 30 minutes of the Vehicle Manufacturing Plant.

The JIT suppliers are described in the Automotive world as sequence suppliers; the parts are built to a pre determined specification and shipped in a particular order which is in line with the production plan.

The plan is issued as part of what is known as an 8 day message which is purely indicative, and confirmed by an EDI alert 8 hours prior to build on line, hence the necessity to be close to the Plant.

There will be no way of deviating from this method of production as it is not physically possible to pre build and store the finished part as there is such a diverse choice.

An good example of this is Bumper and Tail gate manufacture, a world leader of which is the French Company Plastic Omnium.

PO supply all of the big manufacturers and have plants close by.

Although the Bumpers are moulded and assembled in this country the base plastic used, the paints used, the electrical harnesses and electronic sensors and every other constituent part are not manufactured in the UK - the only aspect of that lot which will not attract a tariff is the minimum wage labour which assembles the parts

Although people will have you believe that the Bumpers are of UK manufacture, the truth is somewhat different.

 

[mao tse tung]

Nissan are already doing it...

https://www.business-live.co.uk/man...arebar&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=sharebar

This will be great for U.K. jobs and the environment. Set up manufacturing parts next to the plants.

They, like all manufacturers have been doing that for years - see earlier mail

 

[mao tse tung]

You're not making any sense, how can a 'benefit' be bad for them?

How come Audi, BMW, Merc, VW etc DON'T want the tariffs if it will benefit them?

I may be wrong about this but I thought WTO tariffs for cars and parts was 10%

"How come Audi, BMW, Merc, VW etc DON'T want the tariffs if it will benefit them?"

The answer is still the same

Because of the disruption to their supply chain - tariffs on car parts vary and are currently greater than what they will be on the finished product - but they can change that.

"I may be wrong about this but I thought WTO tariffs for cars and parts was 10%"

Well that explains why you are being obtuse.

They are not the same; there is not even a single tariff for car parts, they vary significantly according to the component.

Just to give you an indication of how the tariffs will impact; the general feeling in the industry is that tariffs on finished vehicles will result in a net increase of 6.3% in the show room.

As things stand, the increase in production costs due to tariffs on components will be somewhere between 12 and 20% depending on the complexity of build.

 

[JC21]

"How come Audi, BMW, Merc, VW etc DON'T want the tariffs if it will benefit them?"

The answer is still the same

Because of the disruption to their supply chain - tariffs on car parts vary and are currently greater than what they will be on the finished product - but they can change that.

"I may be wrong about this but I thought WTO tariffs for cars and parts was 10%"

Well that explains why you are being obtuse.

They are not the same; there is not even a single tariff for car parts, they vary significantly according to the component.

Just to give you an indication of how the tariffs will impact; the general feeling in the industry is that tariffs on finished vehicles will result in a net increase of 6.3% in the show room.

As things stand, the increase in production costs due to tariffs on components will be somewhere between 12 and 20% depending on the complexity of build.

We are discussing the tariff on the final product please forget about parts, I was never talking about that. For arguments sake, let's just say the tariff on parts makes every car in the world dearer.

The WTO tariff on cars is 10%, is it not? That 10% import tariff is going to increase the price of a German car which in turn will have effect on sales

 

[Calvin Plummer]

In general I would much prefer something smaller but with two kids, house renovations (now thankfully finished, I suppose), and the missus is into gardening, so I'm mostly all about the estates for a few years.

That's disappointing for a man who cares about the environment...

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Incidentally luxury goods are not nearly as price sensitive.

 

[in_the_top_one]

That's disappointing for a man who cares about the environment...

What, the gardening? I know - I've told her to stop...


Well, I'm trading in a diesel and shelling out thousands of pounds I don't really have to get a plug in car to be charged by my green energy provider.
I don't put many miles on cars having deliberately chosen to live close to where I work (again at extra cost) to minimise the commute. I will be driving on holiday to Wales, the South coat, and occasionally France, which means fewer/no family flights.

 

[in_the_top_one]

We could discuss the relative drag coefficients and weights of estates and hatchbacks but I don't think it would be very productive.

 

[Strett]

Incidentally luxury goods are not nearly as price sensitive.

Tell me about it. Last week a bottle of water was in my bag and I, uncharacteristically hadn’t tightened the lid. I was walking to my car with said bag on shoulder leaving a trail of water drops behind me. It now smells like wet dog. Looked at the price of a replacement and it’d gone up over £400!!! Taking the piss.

 

[JC21]

Incidentally luxury goods are not nearly as price sensitive.

You are correct about that but if you are spending £50,000 on a car, whatever model you choose is a luxury good. The important factor when considering price elasticity of demand in cars is the number of competitors.

 

[radfordinlondon]

I was born in the 70s. The flares, disco scene and bearded clams I was all too young for.

Bit early to be giving up the intel? The how old is apollyon fred is 600 odd pages and they are no closer to working it out!

 

[radfordinlondon]

Tell me about it. Last week a bottle of water was in my bag and I, uncharacteristically hadn’t tightened the lid. I was walking to my car with said bag on shoulder leaving a trail of water drops behind me. It now smells like wet dog. Looked at the price of a replacement and it’d gone up over £400!!! Taking the piss.

Wot luxury, i had to pay that to get a new waste disposer fitted- that didnt include the unit itself. Not sure when plumbers got £400 for a half day!

 

[mao tse tung]

We are discussing the tariff on the final product please forget about parts, I was never talking about that. For arguments sake, let's just say the tariff on parts makes every car in the world dearer.

The WTO tariff on cars is 10%, is it not? That 10% import tariff is going to increase the price of a German car which in turn will have effect on sales

FFS

You are just being ridiculous now!

You want to ignore serious cost implications because a) you do not understand their impact and b) it does not suit your argument.

You are not moving the goal posts you are running off with the fucking ball

Fine!

Discussion over

 

[mao tse tung]

We could discuss the relative drag coefficients and weights of estates and hatchbacks but I don't think it would be very productive.

We could indeed, but I think you will find that the discussion will be reduced to the fact that drag coefficients have more impact in Europe and they will not apply over here come January.

Wasnt there something on that big red bus about drag coefficient's being a European invention designed to shackle us permanently to the EU?

Or was that gravity?

 

[Strett]

We could indeed, but I think you will find that the discussion will be reduced to the fact that drag coefficients have more impact in Europe and they will not apply over here come January.

Wasnt there something on that big red bus about drag coefficient's being a European invention designed to shackle us permanently to the EU?

Or was that gravity?

Drag coefficient's. DRAG COEFFICIENT'S!!!!
All you have typed prior to this, irrespective if it contained a mere sniff of quality, should be discounted because of your apostrophe misuse!

Also gravity was invented in England, as well you know.

You disgust me.

 

[JC21]

FFS

You are just being ridiculous now!

You want to ignore serious cost implications because a) you do not understand their impact and b) it does not suit your argument.

You are not moving the goal posts you are running off with the fucking ball

Fine!

Discussion over

It's not a case of ignoring them, they exist but that isn't the topic of discussion. You specifically said tariff on cars and that German car manufacturers won't be bothered by them. Whatever else happens, whatever tariffs on parts, price increases, etc the tariff on the car itself will be an ADDITIONAL cost; one that BMW WILL be bothered about

 

[jbacsta]

I did not say that everyone likes German cars or that no one buys Japanese cars; I said that anyone who buys German cars now will not be swapping to Japanese, certainly not on the basis of price.

There are people who are avid Toyota buyers, primarily because they stole a march on environmentally friendly vehicles.

People buy Lexus on the basis that they get a great J D Power score on Quality, which is not all it is made out to be.

Mazda have aesthetics issues which are nothing compared to the reliability of their transmission systems; they may well do good deals on fleet sales but no one who did 30 minutes research would buy one privately.

A lot of people buy German for snob value, that will not change.

I appreciate that you are not going to accept that tariffs will have an effect on all car sales in this Country, and of course the more expensive cars will get hit harder than the cheaper cars, but that will not matter at the end of the day.

The people with the money who can afford expensive cars now will be able to afford the rises in price, and as most of those kind of people will tell you, buying the look is worth every penny.

Even clowns like Bactsa who claims to have dispersed with his Merc will still be buying German, only this time it will probably be a Lexus full of Bosche and Siemans and Blaupunkt equipment, running on Continental tyres.

Tariffs do not work; they never have done and never will.

Clowns like bacsta dispersing? with his merc. Ironic statement that.