Bit of Brexit info required.

[Bremen Tree]

Still waiting for the wording of a second referendum. Radfords suggestion of deal or no brexit rules out the top choice from the last vote!

Surely May could only go for My deal or no deal, unless you are going to start the transferable vote system and start going for three options
My deal, no deal, no brexit. Even then you could say it disenfranchises anyone who wants Canada, Norway etc.

How about a vote on the Irish border too ?
Border (simplifies everything), no border ?

Do you actually know what's in Norway deal?

The ECJ would no longer have any but the EFTA court would. None the less Norway has incorporated approx 70% of ECJ rulings

To have a Norway deal the UK would still have to be a member of the EEA and that requires acceptance of the four basic freedoms, including the free movement of people. You can opt out but the circumstance must be extenuating.

So, in principle the Norway deal is quasi membership of being a fully fledged member of the EU but with little or no say.

 

[toms]

Wrong. Polling the following morning says Leave voters thought we would be staying in the SM, because they were told we would by the lying, illegal leave campaign.

Sorry what leave voters were polled-how many? That's not what the leaflet said or countless remainer politicians.

This narrative about people not knowing what the voted for is a busted flush as borne out by practically every piece of media out there. There may be a few but there are also a few who have switched from remain to leave on the basis of what they have now seen of how the EU operates. The fact you still want to be part of this is really surprising. Take a good look at France, Italy most of the southern and eastern European states-all deeply unhappy with the EU spawning extremist left and right wing parties. Cant you see that people are deeply unhappy and don't you know that all empires eventually come to an end consumed by their own self importance and intransigence

 

[toms]

Just as a wild stab in the dark, but I’m sure that if you didn’t have confidence in someone, you wouldn’t vote for them.

Not true. You just may prefer the other guy or other gal

 

[toms]

Yes, because that's what JRM, Mark "twist the knife" Francois (sound suspiciously French..?) and others have been repeating. But when you think about it for more than a tenth of a second you realise its nonsense, right? The news does precious little analysis these days. It's all, these people said this and those people said that.

But the media are also spouting that she got more votes than last time without challenging the more salient point-this was about confidence, not preferred leader. Everyone spins everything to suit their argument, even you and me. Someone has to be more right though...which is ofcourse me and Lienking!

 

[toms]

Still waiting for the wording of a second referendum. Radfords suggestion of deal or no brexit rules out the top choice from the last vote!

Surely May could only go for My deal or no deal, unless you are going to start the transferable vote system and start going for three options
My deal, no deal, no brexit. Even then you could say it disenfranchises anyone who wants Canada, Norway etc.

How about a vote on the Irish border too ?
Border (simplifies everything), no border ?

Tell you what lets have a referendum as follow

No deal or May's deal

This would be the best way of implementing the referendum. Remain has already been ruled out on the first ballot

 

[Bremen Tree]

Sorry what leave voters were polled-how many? That's not what the leaflet said or countless remainer politicians.

This narrative about people not knowing what the voted for is a busted flush as borne out by practically every piece of media out there. There may be a few but there are also a few who have switched from remain to leave on the basis of what they have now seen of how the EU operates. The fact you still want to be part of this is really surprising. Take a good look at France, Italy most of the southern and eastern European states-all deeply unhappy with the EU spawning extremist left and right wing parties. Cant you see that people are deeply unhappy and don't you know that all empires eventually come to an end consumed by their own self importance and intransigence

You base the assumption of France on what exactly? I seriously doubt it is based on first hand experience. When was the last time you lived Europe amongst the inhabitants because you are so wrong, if ever?

For the last 3.5yrs I have lived in southern France and the folk there are not unhappy. They can see that it is not working and want changes but are fully behind the project.
.
The recent protests in France has nothing to do with the EU but Macron's policies around tax, wanting to change the employment laws etc.

 

[toms]

Do you actually know what's in Norway deal?

The ECJ would no longer have any but the EFTA court would. None the less Norway has incorporated approx 70% of ECJ rulings

To have a Norway deal the UK would still have to be a member of the EEA and that requires acceptance of the four basic freedoms, including the free movement of people. You can opt out but the circumstance must be extenuating.

So, in principle the Norway deal is quasi membership of being a fully fledged member of the EU but with little or no say.

Bremen and I are diametrically opposed on every issue that we have discussed but I must agree that Norway would not respect the result of the referendum. The best solution is a free trade deal and a pre agreed way forward on everything else including the Irish issue

I would be in favour of extending article 50 to test the good faith and best endeavours of the EU (as stated in the withdrawal agreement.).

 

[toms]

You base the assumption of France on what exactly? I seriously doubt it is based on first hand experience. When was the last time you lived Europe amongst the inhabitants because you are so wrong, if ever?

For the last 3.5yrs I have lived in southern France and the folk there are not unhappy. They can see that it is not working and want changes but are fully behind the project.
.
The recent protests in France has nothing to do with the EU but Macron's policies around tax, employment laws etc.

Yes Macron is trying to align things with what his masters say must be done. Macron is an EU stooge

 

[Bremen Tree]

Bremen and I are diametrically opposed on every issue that we have discussed but I must agree that Norway would not respect the result of the referendum. The best solution is a free trade deal and a pre agreed way forward on everything else including the Irish issue

I would be in favour of extending article 50 to test the good faith and best endeavours of the EU (as stated in the withdrawal agreement.).

A free trade agreement within the EU is pie in the sky. The EU will never accept that without the other freedoms.

 

[toms]

A free trade agreement within the EU is pie in the sky. The EU will never accept that without the other freedoms.

They have offered it

 

[Feco]

You're not exactly comparing apples with apple though! This was a vote in which only the Conservatives took part. Bit like having a second vote with only remainers voting (from the first poll), then claiming you have got 80% of the vote. Bit like the polls they quote when they only poll the members of the labour party on what they think of leave or remain.

She won 63% of those eligible to vote. The turn out was 100%.
The rules are the rules, and TM won handsomely within those rules.

Now you can always argue that the electorate is not truly representative of the nation.
For instance stopping 16 year olds having a vote in the 2016 referendum, when the result of the vote would not be activated until they reached legal adulthood, and their lives would be directly affected.

Meantime those over 75+ year olds who are less likely to be impacted by the referendum result could vote.

I appreciate there has to be a cut off point, and you accept the rules.

The ERG should do the same on last nights ballot which is every bit as valid as the referendum and accept the result.

If they can’t, then they should quit the Conservatives and continue their protest outside of the protection being a member of the Tories gives them.

I’m sure UKIP or The National Front would welcome them.

 

[Feco]

I'm sure she will chicken out, but she said NO BREXIT was a possibility if she WASN'T re-elected. May herself hasn't said anything about going for no brexit. There isn't time to have a second referendum before March 29th anyway. This means Parliament would have to extend/pull article 50 WITHOUT any "peoples vote" backing their decision ie going against the will of the 17.4 million even before having a vote.

Corbyn would probably want a no deal brexit anyway, then he can blame the tories, ride in on his white stallion to save us, and make things worse !

A deal has been negotiated, it just needs agreement of Parliament to become valid.
They say yes or no.
If they say no, it’s hardly TM chickening out.

As I said the other day, the options are all now clear. Just make decision so we can all move on.

 

[Feco]

Still waiting for the wording of a second referendum. Radfords suggestion of deal or no brexit rules out the top choice from the last vote!

Surely May could only go for My deal or no deal, unless you are going to start the transferable vote system and start going for three options
My deal, no deal, no brexit. Even then you could say it disenfranchises anyone who wants Canada, Norway etc.

How about a vote on the Irish border too ?
Border (simplifies everything), no border ?

I’m still waiting for your ideas on what trade deals we can do in the future.......

I posted a few days ago what type of referendum paper is being considered.....and it is being considered.

As for a vote on the Irish Border, I’m sure you would be delighted if all of Ireland had a vote on the pressing issues of Broxtowe.

 

[Feco]

All the journalists were saying the same

Adam Boulton wasn’t....

 

[Feco]

Sorry what leave voters were polled-how many? That's not what the leaflet said or countless remainer politicians.

This narrative about people not knowing what the voted for is a busted flush as borne out by practically every piece of media out there. There may be a few but there are also a few who have switched from remain to leave on the basis of what they have now seen of how the EU operates. The fact you still want to be part of this is really surprising. Take a good look at France, Italy most of the southern and eastern European states-all deeply unhappy with the EU spawning extremist left and right wing parties. Cant you see that people are deeply unhappy and don't you know that all empires eventually come to an end consumed by their own self importance and intransigence

So you knew and fully understood all the ramifications of what leave meant at the time of the referendum?

 

[Feco]

Not true. You just may prefer the other guy or other gal

So are you agreeing with me or not?

 

[toms]

So you knew and fully understood all the ramifications of what leave meant at the time of the referendum?

Yes

 

[toms]

So are you agreeing with me or not?

No. To have confidence in someone is more a question of trust and competence.

Few riots in Hungary now...happy happy people everywhere...populists I tell you...those pesky naughty and worthless people who don't agree with EU edicts

 

[toms]

She won 63% of those eligible to vote. The turn out was 100%.
The rules are the rules, and TM won handsomely within those rules.

Now you can always argue that the electorate is not truly representative of the nation.
For instance stopping 16 year olds having a vote in the 2016 referendum, when the result of the vote would not be activated until they reached legal adulthood, and their lives would be directly affected.

Meantime those over 75+ year olds who are less likely to be impacted by the referendum result could vote.

I appreciate there has to be a cut off point, and you accept the rules.

The ERG should do the same on last nights ballot which is every bit as valid as the referendum and accept the result.

If they can’t, then they should quit the Conservatives and continue their protest outside of the protection being a member of the Tories gives them.

I’m sure UKIP or The National Front would welcome them.

Feco are you saying those conservatives who did not vote for her should now vote for her deal when this could hasten a general election (DUP would vote against) and a potential defeat and loss of power for the conservative party?

 

[in_the_top_one]

Adam Boulton wasn’t....

Nor on 5Live.