Aston Villa v Liverpool - Sat 2nd Nov, 3pm - Match Thread

[Melon Donkey]

I heard we'd be top 3 if we went on HT scores can't be arsed to check but it suggests we've conceded a few leads this season, not just a couple.
We have to cut it out and only then will we be fine, such small margins I know and I'd pay the entrance money just to watch Jack Grealish

We would be 2nd according to junior 1 who depressed me further after the result Saturday with this stat

Difficult one.
I remember saying after the Palace game I thought we were too gung ho after going down to 10 men.
The thrown away leads and points show we are not being coached, being given instructions or have the game craft to see things out positively.
It points to Deano's philosophy being what it is , an expansive attacking game whatever the match circumstances.
Its costing us at the moment .

But .....

This time last year we (well I certainly was ) were coming off the back of being bored rigid by Bruce's restricted style of play . At times we were defending a 1 nil loss. The football style was just muddled with the eye watering passes sideways and backwards. It was very pedestrian like and easy to play against . Cut the wings off then we were done .

I guess we are looking for something we may not get with Deano' s philosophy. However , with the durge we have suffered for what's seems an age, going back before Bruce. I for one will put up with the rough for the smooth we are getting .

 

[Villan57]

I'm with you to a point Melon but where we were last season is starting to become irrelevant now, it's starting to sound like it's ok to throw away leads because we were so bad this time last season or an excuse. It's starting to grate on me
We do indeed have a much better side than at any time in the last 10 years and a manager who is 99% backed (there are always a few who don't)

We are now top flight and playing well enough to win but lack some guile when it comes to seeing us over the line, this is where JT should come into his own. His experience with Chelsea should shine now, shouldn't it?

Something or someone triggers panic mode in the second half of games, what it is I don't know.

There again I get nervous watching us, so I guess nerves just get to players the same

 

[JP Healy]

Just an afterthought but l thought Tom Heston had enough time to come off his line and intercept the cross for the equaliser. Winner? Men on the posts every time. Those who disagree might concede that sometimes attackers outjump defenders. Defensive errors sum up our season. Missed Jack big time Saturday with his ability to keep possession and draw fouls. Cop out ball to Wes invariably means we lose possession. Still proud of the boys, Great effort against one of maybe one of the top half dozen teams in Europe. Healthy financial position will almost certainly mean a top striker will arrive in January. Despite the disappointment of the Pool game,it was a great game with an electric atmosphere. The Villa are back.

 

[Melon Donkey]

I'm with you to a point Melon but where we were last season is starting to become irrelevant now, it's starting to sound like it's ok to throw away leads because we were so bad this time last season or an excuse. It's starting to grate on me
We do indeed have a much better side than at any time in the last 10 years and a manager who is 99% backed (there are always a few who don't)

We are now top flight and playing well enough to win but lack some guile when it comes to seeing us over the line, this is where JT should come into his own. His experience with Chelsea should shine now, shouldn't it?

Something or someone triggers panic mode in the second half of games, what it is I don't know.

There again I get nervous watching us, so I guess nerves just get to players the same

Agree. Sooner or later it will wear thin. Made a similar point over the weekend about how this time last year we would have snapped someone's hand off to be gutted about losing to liverpool in the last seconds . We cannot keep saying it forever.

Regarding Terry, I'm sure he passes on his experiences but once they cross the white line etc.
Nothing coaches can do where players don't track runners or mark their man at corners or even worse jump like a fairy and turn their back when defending a cross (still haven't forgotten that from Taylor v Burnley)

 

[Fulford]

That's the key though that was pretty much a one-off it's becoming a regular occurrence with us

They haven’t done it since as far as I know.

 

[danvilla2]

Elmohamady should have done better for the equaliser as well.

It’s El Ghazi marking from watching the extended highlights again because I’m still gutted about the result, there are a few attacks where Robertson gets goal side, so the warning signs were there.

I’m not scapegoating but when we’re winning El Ghazi needs to remember a school boy basic - stay goal side.

 

[Villan57]

It’s El Ghazi marking from watching the extended highlights again because I’m still gutted about the result, there are a few attacks where Robertson gets goal side, so the warning signs were there.

I’m not scapegoating but when we’re winning El Ghazi needs to remember a school boy basic - stay goal side.

Unfortunately, it's just come on the midlands news and I've seen it again, the first time since seeing it live, Why didn't Howrahan make a bit more of a gut-busting effort to stop the cross coming in for their first and WTF is he doing marking Mane for the second.
I just knew I shouldn't have watched it again

 

[gmvillan]

Unfortunately, it's just come on the midlands news and I've seen it again, the first time since seeing it live, Why didn't Howrahan make a bit more of a gut-busting effort to stop the cross coming in for their first and WTF is he doing marking Mane for the second.
I just knew I shouldn't have watched it again

Coaches assign players for set-pieces, including when they come on as a sub. I would suggest that Kodja was probably the one assigned to Mane as it had been Wesley before he was replaced. The first goal was simply down to ElGhazi taking his eye off Robertson. Your scapegoating of Hourihane might be slightly more palatable if you didn't deliberately misspell his name as if to emphasize the point that you don't like the pronunciation or something.

 

[Villan57]

Coaches assign players for set-pieces, including when they come on as a sub. I would suggest that Kodja was probably the one assigned to Mane as it had been Wesley before he was replaced. The first goal was simply down to ElGhazi taking his eye off Robertson. Your scapegoating of Hourihane might be slightly more palatable if you didn't deliberately misspell his name as if to emphasize the point that you don't like the pronunciation or something.

I actually spotted him marking Mane and remarked to the bloke next to me before the corner came in, and my next words were and there you go.
I don't blame him I blame whoever thinks he should be anywhere near the box on an opposition corner.
I suppose you scapegoating Elghazi is ok?

 

[McParlandTheGreat]

My 2d. DS's approach may look as though it's risky, if one's thinking of a particular game. But it's the approach which is most likely to get us producing the performances he wants in the longer run. The lads put in a brilliant effort on Saturday and that will pay dividends in future games. We were undone by two outstanding goals.

Liverpool have got where they are by refusing to compromise. Klopp has never flinched from his attacking approach, even though in the early days there were disappointments. DS won't flinch either.

 

[CDX_EIRE]

.

Liverpool have got where they are by refusing to compromise. Klopp has never flinched from his attacking approach, even though in the early days there were disappointments. DS won't flinch either.

Drawing comparisons is risky business but Liverpool were notorious for poor game management a couple seasons ago. If you go back and look at some of their results they threw away a lot of leads. Some of this is a pure quality issue too as has been noted we don’t have quality sitting on the bench so I think more than ever at the club we can talk about shared accountability between manager and players.

I have to agree with @V57 about Hourihane both goals start with him. I’m not saying it’s 100% his fault of course it isn’t but he stands off Mane because he is afraid of his pace and then for the corner he doesn’t react and run with him. El Ghazi, Kodjia and Deano share blame too for not tracking, for ball watching and for decision making.

Personally I think Deano is least culpable of anyone. Both Liverpool goals were crosses but Liverpool don’t just pump balls into the box they keep playing and playing so I don’t know what Konza is going to do any differently to Hourihane. There is a criticism here about defending deeper and deeper but the solution to that can’t be to put another center back on. There is an argument for Lansbury but we’ve seen so little of him it’s hard to know if he was mentally fit enough to be that disciplined. Apart from sticking on Kodjia I think Deano played the only cards he had - its such a shame Davis was injured or dare I say Wesley wasn’t still on the pitch.

 

[Silhillvilla]

Wow , the Hourihane bashers have some new material to work with. This could be a long week

 

[gmvillan]

I actually spotted him marking Mane and remarked to the bloke next to me before the corner came in, and my next words were and there you go.
I don't blame him I blame whoever thinks he should be anywhere near the box on an opposition corner.
I suppose you scapegoating Elghazi is ok?

I wasn't and have never scapegoated ElGhazi. It was just a statement of fact about what went wrong on the goal, unlike your tendency to blame Hourihane for anything and everything.

 

[gmvillan]

One thing that is not being discussed much in the course of post-game analysis is Ming's tendency to keep dropping deep. The disallowed Liverpool effort reminded me of the Brighton game when he was constantly dropping off an extra yard or two while the rest of defence was pushed up. The Brighton free-kicks, where they dummied the ball caused us problems (one led to a goal) because Mings was falling for the dummy and dropping deep, playing the entire team onside. The same thing happened with the Firmino effort - he was two yards behind the rest of the defence. I hope that they can show him this on film and correct it. It's a matter of timing (when to drop and when to hold) and right now he is causing us to be under more pressure than needed.

 

[CDX_EIRE]

Wow , the Hourihane bashers have some new material to work with. This could be a long week

No bashing of Hourihane at least from me it’s my observation - except for massive mistakes there is rarely a single point of failure for a goal.

For the first goal in real time we all look at El Ghazi but I think Hourihane gave Mane a fraction too much respect. It’s bloody tough because Mane can do him at that range but he’s done anyway. El Ghazi is a clear culprit but for me there shouldn’t be a ball in the box

Second goal is indefensible in my opinion. 3 points of failure - Hourihane loses Mane, Kodjia doesn’t attack the ball and DS doesn’t put a man on the post.

I feel stuck in no mans land because I neither love nor hate him. Any criticism no matter how minor seems to bring a backlash. I think he is a good solid dependable squad player. A lad who can make a difference when chasing the game and who can do damage against the right teams.

Having a lad like him proves that at least for a team of our level your best 11 depends on who you’re facing. If we need to flood the box when we attack Hourihane is the man but if we need to retain possession Douglas is better.

He probably knows it himself but he’s always going to have to continually prove himself. He can certainly do a job at this level but it’s hard to see him as a nailed on starter even in this squad.

 

[BodyButter]

No bashing of Hourihane at least from me it’s my observation - except for massive mistakes there is rarely a single point of failure for a goal.

For the first goal in real time we all look at El Ghazi but I think Hourihane gave Mane a fraction too much respect. It’s bloody tough because Mane can do him at that range but he’s done anyway. El Ghazi is a clear culprit but for me there shouldn’t be a ball in the box

Second goal is indefensible in my opinion. 3 points of failure - Hourihane loses Mane, Kodjia doesn’t attack the ball and DS doesn’t put a man on the post.

I feel stuck in no mans land because I neither love nor hate him. Any criticism no matter how minor seems to bring a backlash. I think he is a good solid dependable squad player. A lad who can make a difference when chasing the game and who can do damage against the right teams.

Having a lad like him proves that at least for a team of our level your best 11 depends on who you’re facing. If we need to flood the box when we attack Hourihane is the man but if we need to retain possession Douglas is better.

He probably knows it himself but he’s always going to have to continually prove himself. He can certainly do a job at this level but it’s hard to see him as a nailed on starter even in this squad.

I fully agree. Hourihane isn't the man for a backs to the wall performance. If we'd had another Marv on the bench, we might have won that game. That said, if we had another Marv, he wouldn't be on the bench.

 

[danvilla2]

One thing that is not being discussed much in the course of post-game analysis is Ming's tendency to keep dropping deep. The disallowed Liverpool effort reminded me of the Brighton game when he was constantly dropping off an extra yard or two while the rest of defence was pushed up. The Brighton free-kicks, where they dummied the ball caused us problems (one led to a goal) because Mings was falling for the dummy and dropping deep, playing the entire team onside. The same thing happened with the Firmino effort - he was two yards behind the rest of the defence. I hope that they can show him this on film and correct it. It's a matter of timing (when to drop and when to hold) and right now he is causing us to be under more pressure than needed.

I really like Mings, but I don’t think he’s God Mk2 just yet from seeing him this season for his positioning as you point out and 57 did, which costs us a lot more than people think and his all round occasional sloppiness which has cost us a few times.

If he wants to reach the heights that JT has hit, he needs to be faultless game after game after game. I want to see ten games solid now from Mings where he’s faultless because he’s using up his quota quickly.

 

[onlyteaminthemids]

I don’t blame hourihane for their goal, that shit just happens sometimes. Would though blame him for the pass to that lump of a no.9, when he could have had a dig and made it 2-0. The angle was awkward, but no worse than the one targett had against Brighton.
It’s not even as if he’s normally a bottler - the smethwick playoff goal proves that, but I think the occasion got to him. Luis was amazing on Saturday - if he stays on I think we probably hold out for at least a draw

 

[JP Healy]

I actually spotted him marking Mane and remarked to the bloke next to me before the corner came in, and my next words were and there you go.
I don't blame him I blame whoever thinks he should be anywhere near the box on an opposition corner.
I suppose you scapegoating Elghazi is ok?

Clearly,every goal conceded since he joined the club is his fault. Every goal he scored clearly a fluke. Connor has strengths and weaknesses but l do find constant criticism unjustified.

 

[Jamie_K]

It’s El Ghazi marking from watching the extended highlights again because I’m still gutted about the result, there are a few attacks where Robertson gets goal side, so the warning signs were there.

I’m not scapegoating but when we’re winning El Ghazi needs to remember a school boy basic - stay goal side.

Yeah, have since seen it back and you're right. Hardly surprising is it, tracking back and work rate have been his biggest flaws.