Are we going to see even more injuries this season? | Vital Football

Are we going to see even more injuries this season?

Spursex

Alert Team
Over the last few weeks, there have also been a significant number of players suffering hamstring injuries. Including our own Micky van de Ven who pulled up during our 4-1 loss to Chelsea earlier this month. It feels like it could be a growing problem, and the data seems to back this up.

The fear from the players union and the clubs was that extending games and increasing in ball play times on these fast slick surfaces could result in increasing the incidence of soft tissue injuries, and that's what (so far) the stats are confirming:

Hamstring injuries are up 55 per cent on the four-season average — with 53 by this stage of the season compared to an average of 34. They have also increased by 96 per cent when compared to last season (27).

This data suggests that injuries and specifically hamstring injuries are on the up — and that concerns over changes to the added-time rules have been borne out.

As some of us feared, once again the PL have implemented a process that didn't take into account players genuine fears.

As fit as the players are, intensive regular match time has proved again and again that without extended rest periods, injuries will ensue.

Well done IFAB and FIFA (those responsible for implementing this) as once again they show they couldn't care less about the players welfare - so it's no wonder that the players union are so angry about this and are beginning to talk about taking militant action...

Here's what Webb said about it at the time:

Why more added time and yellow cards?​

"There are two focus areas going into the new season. One is around participant behaviour, the other is effective playing time. Going into the new season we are doing things a bit differently in terms of how we calculate the time that needs to be added at the end of each half.
"That's a requirement from the International Football Association Board and FIFA due to a change in the laws of the game that we have to add time more accurately throughout the world, not just in the English game. They've added the words around goal celebrations having to be added on at the end of the game and the general focus around more accurate calculation.
"What we saw at the World Cup and the feedback FIFA got back from that tournament was positive. As a result of that they lobbied the international board for some changes and that is now coming through to us and other competitions around the world as well.
"You will see more time on the board usually because we are going to be calculating how long it takes from a goal being scored to the game restarting and how long substitutions take.
"Instead of using a general rule of thumb of 30 seconds like we traditionally did, we will be adding on the actual time that is lost through the events, including penalty kicks as well as red cards."
'We want to be proactive'

"We are not just going to be spectators as people celebrate for three minutes or as substitutes take a minute and a half to walk off the field. We want to be proactive within the 90 minutes to try and get the game to restart as efficiently as possible, and also deal with those participants who act in a way that is designed to waste time or to delay restarts or to interfere with the possibility of free-kicks being taken quickly.
"That is going to be the focus on us using the tools that we already have within the game to ensure those actions are penalised appropriately.
"We need to do that consistently across all of our games that we serve and not only in weeks one, two and three, but throughout the season and every season as well."


'The added time will settle down'​

"We anticipate that the amount of added time will settle down a little bit. We saw some big numbers this last weekend [in the EFL]. The officials were pretty keen to apply precise and accurate calculations in certain areas that we talked about.
"They're also adding time for yellow cards and other certain situations to ensure that they were doing what was right to create a fairer game. We think it will settle down and players will modify their behaviours and restarts will happen more efficiently.
"Those numbers will come down a little bit and officials will settle down into what they're doing as well. Hopefully the game will be fairer as a result.


"We're expecting, based on the information we saw from last season where we had eight-and-a-half minutes on average added time in the Premier League, that number to rise to about 11 or 11-and-a-half minutes, but depending on match events. Not a crazy amount of additional time as we move into this early part of the season and beyond.
"We're hoping to stop the trend [of more added time]. Not only to increase expected playing time but also in terms of dealing with those time-wasting tactics that frustrate people. A team goes 1-0 up away from home and does everything possible to take every bit of time out of the game and to slow things down, stop free-kicks, kick balls away.
"They are the sort of things we think if we deal with consistently players will modify their behaviours and we will see a better game as a consequence."

If we're going to keep doing this, clubs will have to start demanding having an increase in squad sizes - which in turn will cause all sorts of consequential financial problems....

The players agents and the players Union are getting seriously concerned, and my bet is if this trend carries on until the end of the season, we're going to see a serious series of confrontations in the professional game and it will be another fit between the governing bodies, the clubs and the players as well as IFAB...

Already, I've been made aware the governments new body that will oversee the game think this is one of the areas they can/will step into - God help the game if they do!!

I've no idea how this new mess can be cleaned up, anyone care to suggest how it can be?
 
Think it was Matic that said this, "the Hamstring injury to VdV was probably caused by muscles cooling down because of the length of time spent by VAR reviewing things" think it was 7+ mins waiting around before VdV pulled up, makes sense to me.

A very good post there Ex!
Sorry if my post is only repeating what you wrote.
 
This current PL season started on Aug 11. It is now Nov 20 and there have been 12 PL games played for each team, between 1-3 ELC games played by each team and three international breaks equalling 6 games in total. Add to this another 4 European games for those teams inside those competitions.

In 14ish weeks, top level players will have played between 23-25 matches, travelled thousands upon thousands of miles, changing time zones regularly, and in some cases are expected to play (sometimes) more than 105 minutes per game. This doesn't include the different levels of training.

Spurs are about to embark on a month of 7 games in Dec I believe. A few teams will play 8.

As Pompey said, at the time I wondered if the long pauses in VAR check times may have contributed to VdV's injury, and if that might become an issue where we seeing coaches have to come on to the pitch to keep the players warmed up after x amount of minutes. I believe these thoughts are now being floated in the media and may start to be discussed in punditry if any more VdV-type scenarios pop up again.

All in all, it is pretty clear that players' fitness is an after thought. Many fans will show little sympathy because of how much they are paid, but most will become increasingly frustrated by their key players picking up more injuries.
 
This current PL season started on Aug 11. It is now Nov 20 and there have been 12 PL games played for each team, between 1-3 ELC games played by each team and three international breaks equalling 6 games in total. Add to this another 4 European games for those teams inside those competitions.

In 14ish weeks, top level players will have played between 23-25 matches, travelled thousands upon thousands of miles, changing time zones regularly, and in some cases are expected to play (sometimes) more than 105 minutes per game. This doesn't include the different levels of training.

Spurs are about to embark on a month of 7 games in Dec I believe. A few teams will play 8.

As Pompey said, at the time I wondered if the long pauses in VAR check times may have contributed to VdV's injury, and if that might become an issue where we seeing coaches have to come on to the pitch to keep the players warmed up after x amount of minutes. I believe these thoughts are now being floated in the media and may start to be discussed in punditry if any more VdV-type scenarios pop up again.

All in all, it is pretty clear that players' fitness is an after thought. Many fans will show little sympathy because of how much they are paid, but most will become increasingly frustrated by their key players picking up more injuries.
Yet more reasons for reducing the PL to sixteen teams and 30 matches, and doing away with international breaks mid season.
 
This current PL season started on Aug 11. It is now Nov 20 and there have been 12 PL games played for each team, between 1-3 ELC games played by each team and three international breaks equalling 6 games in total. Add to this another 4 European games for those teams inside those competitions.

In 14ish weeks, top level players will have played between 23-25 matches, travelled thousands upon thousands of miles, changing time zones regularly, and in some cases are expected to play (sometimes) more than 105 minutes per game. This doesn't include the different levels of training.

Spurs are about to embark on a month of 7 games in Dec I believe. A few teams will play 8.

As Pompey said, at the time I wondered if the long pauses in VAR check times may have contributed to VdV's injury, and if that might become an issue where we seeing coaches have to come on to the pitch to keep the players warmed up after x amount of minutes. I believe these thoughts are now being floated in the media and may start to be discussed in punditry if any more VdV-type scenarios pop up again.

All in all, it is pretty clear that players' fitness is an after thought. Many fans will show little sympathy because of how much they are paid, but most will become increasingly frustrated by their key players picking up more injuries.

The frustration that I know is beginning to boil over inside the players union is that these changes are being arbitrarily made without any investigation or reference to players well-being; from what I've heard, if by the end of the season this trend is confirmed, they'll almost certainly be talk of a players strike until changes are made and a new consultative process is in place.

Agents too are sick of it, what most fans don't realise that as players income is affected by injury, so is there's!
 
Who pays for player recovery/wages if a player is injured on International duty?

Compensation​

Following agreements between FIFA, UEFA and the European Clubs Association (ECA), when players are injured on international duty during major tournaments, the national governing body will be required to compensate the club which the player plays for:

This rule only applies, however, to injuries suffered in the final stages of an international football tournament. Therefore, if an England player is injured during the qualifying stages of the World Cup, the FA does not have to compensate the domestic club.

The World Cup tournament takes place English domestic game’s off-season, whereas the qualifiers take place during the domestic season. This mean any injury picked up during the qualifying stages will hit the club much harder – because they club will have lost a valued player and no compensation will be payable.

Furthermore, where a player suffers a career-threatening injury while training with their national team – such as happened to West Ham player Dean Ashton during training, a day before his England debut – clubs must carry on paying the player’s wages while they are out injured but will not be eligible for any compensation.

Basically, the same rules apply to UEFA competitions.
 
It is, but it will never happen, if anything UEFA FIFA have already planned and are implementing even more games.

Players aren't robots, despite what they think.
Next season's Champions League will be brutal. 8 - 10 games just to qualify for the knockout stage. And that's excluding any qualifying rounds the club will have to play.

There'll be no 'dead rubbers' either given that one of the main benefits of the Swiss Model is to ensure, as much as possible, that all of the games in the group stage have some meaning i.e. every club has something to play for until the end.

You can envisage how the top clubs in the PL could accommodate a reduction in the number of clubs in the Premier League because they'll be substituting matches against the likes of Sheffield United for more illustrious opponents in Europe.

It hard to see how clubs outside of the elite in the PL would agree to a reduction though. They're unlikely to be in the Champions League, it would be a significant loss of income and make it that much harder to stay in the PL.
 

Compensation​

Following agreements between FIFA, UEFA and the European Clubs Association (ECA), when players are injured on international duty during major tournaments, the national governing body will be required to compensate the club which the player plays for:

This rule only applies, however, to injuries suffered in the final stages of an international football tournament. Therefore, if an England player is injured during the qualifying stages of the World Cup, the FA does not have to compensate the domestic club.

The World Cup tournament takes place English domestic game’s off-season, whereas the qualifiers take place during the domestic season. This mean any injury picked up during the qualifying stages will hit the club much harder – because they club will have lost a valued player and no compensation will be payable.

Furthermore, where a player suffers a career-threatening injury while training with their national team – such as happened to West Ham player Dean Ashton during training, a day before his England debut – clubs must carry on paying the player’s wages while they are out injured but will not be eligible for any compensation.

Basically, the same rules apply to UEFA competitions.

I'm surprised the matter of compensation isn't a much bigger talking point really.
How much money is lost in wages and potential money lost via league positions if a player is injured on International duty. Whether it is during a World Cup final or stepping off the plane, it shouldn't really matter.

Everything feels likes FIFA, UEFA etc. are pushing for teams to HAVE to have 2 squads to be able to be competitive for an entire season.
 
I'm surprised the matter of compensation isn't a much bigger talking point really.
How much money is lost in wages and potential money lost via league positions if a player is injured on International duty. Whether it is during a World Cup final or stepping off the plane, it shouldn't really matter.

Everything feels likes FIFA, UEFA etc. are pushing for teams to HAVE to have 2 squads to be able to be competitive for an entire season.
And guess who'll be paying for it!
 
Next season's Champions League will be brutal. 8 - 10 games just to qualify for the knockout stage. And that's excluding any qualifying rounds the club will have to play.

There'll be no 'dead rubbers' either given that one of the main benefits of the Swiss Model is to ensure, as much as possible, that all of the games in the group stage have some meaning i.e. every club has something to play for until the end.

You can envisage how the top clubs in the PL could accommodate a reduction in the number of clubs in the Premier League because they'll be substituting matches against the likes of Sheffield United for more illustrious opponents in Europe.

It hard to see how clubs outside of the elite in the PL would agree to a reduction though. They're unlikely to be in the Champions League, it would be a significant loss of income and make it that much harder to stay in the PL.

I'm convinced that this will all lead to greater pressure to increase squad sizes, the bigger clubs when they start losing 3/4/5 players to injury will demand it, the smaller clubs will fight it as allowing squad to become 30/32/33/34 player will just be beyond them.

It's when it starts affecting PL domestic performances that the shit will hit the fan because if this new league format starts looking more attractive for the media companies, then it will get nasty.
 
The extra minutes for VAR / time wasting has indeed affected players as mentioned already on here. How long will this go on for??? I expect to season end, and in meantime players should do warm up movements to keep muscles from tightening up. Many years ago, myself as a weekend player used to use white horse cream before games.. anyone remember this ? lol
 
The extra minutes for VAR / time wasting has indeed affected players as mentioned already on here. How long will this go on for??? I expect to season end, and in meantime players should do warm up movements to keep muscles from tightening up. Many years ago, myself as a weekend player used to use white horse cream before games.. anyone remember this ? lol
I remember that stuff block D from when I played ore than 40 years ago. Gosh it had an awful smell which you can never forget!
 
I remember that stuff block D from when I played ore than 40 years ago. Gosh it had an
The extra minutes for VAR / time wasting has indeed affected players as mentioned already on here. How long will this go on for??? I expect to season end, and in meantime players should do warm up movements to keep muscles from tightening up. Many years ago, myself as a weekend player used to use white horse cream before games.. anyone remember this ? lol

awful smell which you can never forget!
Haha then add Deep Heat! esp' when you forget and go for a piss.....the pain n heat, oh! memories! Lol!
 
I wonder if the Gavi injury relates to what (I think it was) Spursex mentioned a while back about too much too young?
 
seen some mention online that in Rugby they have exercise bikes at the side for players to stay warm during longer stoppages - if they're going to keep having lengthy VAR checks this makes sense but the problem is you never know how long a VAR check is going to be.
 
We used to call it 'Winter green' probably all the same stuff.
Not as strong as Deep heat, aparrently there was a school of thought which pooh pood all this muscle rub stuff saying it actually took the heat out of the muscle into the skin
As you say PY, had to do the toilet stuff first.