Annual Accounts | Page 5 | Vital Football

Annual Accounts

bristolimp said:
Given todays news if MA wasn’t already a millionaire before he joined us I suspect he is now given his had 2 lay offs in 7 months. Who says failure is a bad word. Sometimes it pays
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He’ll have a decent coaching job with at a Premiership club within 6 months which will probably pay better than we did
 
Mattytindraws said:
Not at all. A little surprised that what was advertised as a mutual parting of the ways cost us, that’s all.
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Hi all,

Fascinating reading all the various comments. As usual, don't think it is productive giving a blow-by-blow response. We will ensure to answer any questions and provide a more detailed narrative at the forthcoming AGM (end of Feb - announcement due imminently)

I will provide one comment/context, however.

For clarity, UK employment law still very much applies to managers, coaches and players. Always surprises me why people think it does not.

Outside of being sacked for gross misconduct (high bar to meet the GM threshold), an (ex) employee is still due their notice and unused holiday pay on termination.

Another point to note is that it is customary for the notice period to match either way. Notice period to the club is effectively compensation should Bigger Club FC come in for your manager.

Now, in theory (only), if notice and holiday pay is 10 gold coins, yet the club and employee agree to a different (lower) sum, would this not be a mutual agreement?

Liam
 
clanfordimp said:
Your right we have no chance of mixing it with the big boys in this league financially.

Our board is fantastic but we would be cutting our cloth accordingly if we were in League 2, NL or NLN, our budgets would be relevant to the leagues we play because of the the people we would attract to the board and the money they would put in playing at those levels and our match day income at those levels would obviously reduce the further we dropped.

If we go on that we will never progress and will be forever a lower league team with a odd decent cup game.

I'm am not deluded and do realise that financially there are some teams in this league who are throwing money at it left, right and center and that is very difficult to compete against but you either try or you just roll over and I don't mean financially but in the players you recruit, that's the way we have to compete.

And let's not forget that despite all the big teams in this league with all the money they had, only a couple of seasons ago we weren't just competing with them we were sitting top of the tree so it can be done but recruitment to this is key and in my opinion our recruitment has deteriorated not got better!

It's not easy, I accept that but the only way we have a chance of competing at the top end of any league in relation to the budget we have is to recruit better, get the balance of recruitment right and then coach those players for the position's you have brought them in for and the formation and style you want to play.

That's how we have to do it along with maybe investing in an established centre forward or an experienced central midfielder every now and again but we can't just say we can't compete financially with teams, we have to find a way to compete.
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There is a cyclical and timing element to factor in. Every year the likes of Sunderland are in L1 they are going to throw the kitchen sink at it. The more teams there are like Sunderland, Ipswich et al the more teams there are throwing the k.s. and not every one of those clubs can fail to bag one of the three promotion places.

We have to bide our time, and (as you correctly point out) try to develop and/or sell players, recruit well and try to be ready when we are on an upward cycle, when there are less sides in the division who are 'going for it' as a matter of course. We have to be savvy and make sure we are in a position to go for it when there are less competitive seasons identified. We can't do it every season as we don't have the resources for that. Effectively we need to be sleepers that build steadily but can spring at the opportune moment.
 
Liam Scully said:
Hi all,

Fascinating reading all the various comments. As usual, don't think it is productive giving a blow-by-blow response. We will ensure to answer any questions and provide a more detailed narrative at the forthcoming AGM (end of Feb - announcement due imminently)

I will provide one comment/context, however.

For clarity, UK employment law still very much applies to managers, coaches and players. Always surprises me why people think it does not.

Outside of being sacked for gross misconduct (high bar to meet the GM threshold), an (ex) employee is still due their notice and unused holiday pay on termination.

Another point to note is that it is customary for the notice period to match either way. Notice period to the club is effectively compensation should Bigger Club FC come in for your manager.

Now, in theory (only), if notice and holiday pay is 10 gold coins, yet the club and employee agree to a different (lower) sum, would this not be a mutual agreement?

Liam
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Yes, in that context I guess so. Thanks for the insight and explanation.
 
Does show the mental state of football, which seems to be magnified further at L1 and above with some of the losses - Preston, being a fairly average sized club at Championship level losing, £32m in two seasons.

What we have had over the last 5 or 6 years is an incredible amount of investment into infrastructure as well, it's not just been about on the field and wages. The EPC, new pitch, electronic advertising, Legend's Lounge, Exec Box fit outs, Club Shop and tickets office had a face lifts, Fanzone, new 5G pitch, more seats added to increase capacity, and now the SW development - not to mention the general annual upgrades we probably do. After the SW development, I'm not sure what there is left do to?!

It'll be a big ask to take that next step and consistency be a mid-table and above L1 side and hinge on the continued generosity of Clive etc. It might come to a point where they can't, or don't want to, do that, which we obviously hope isn't the case. I hope we don't feel as though a ceiling has been reached, it feels like we're in a bit of a readjustment and/or end of squad cycles stage - lots of the squad are out of contract in the summer (probably 15 or so could leave either as out of contract or end of loan spells?).

Clive does make a comment about some potential news on a new key investor in the early stages of 2023, so we're still continuing to attract interest in investing in us.
 
Surely any new funds now a lot of the infrastructure and stadium upgrades are in place, will go on trying to get better results on the pitch in terms of players coming in and being able to be sold for profit?
 
Our accounts have attracted a five page thread on the Fishy...

https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1674052202/

On page 1 from LIncolnMariner 56....

"It is my understanding, from an avid Imps fan who sponsors one of the junior teams, is that Clive Nate’s steps aside as Chairman at the end of this season and will be replaced by the American investor who will then inject some funds into the club."
"According to my informant this is a little around ego in that if it’s his money driving improvement he wants the kudos and it not to go to Clive. No idea how true any of this is but he’s normally quite well informed on anything to do with the Chimps".

Even if Clive were thinking of doing this, i cant imagine for one moment it is something he'd be sharing with anyone. Whilst new income would of course be very welcome, ive never felt the club is in safer hands with our Clive at the helm and hope rumours of his departure are just the usual fishy BS, spurred on by acute jealousy.
 
It could be worse Preston’s accounts published today are scary £20 million loss last year, £86 million pound debt and wages are £178 of every £100 of income absolutely ridiculous.
 
clanfordimp said:
Yes and that is the point in what I was making.

If we can't compete with teams financially and buy off the peg players then we have to find different solutions.

To do that we have to have good recruiter's that work in tandem with the coach and his staff. The coach decides tactics and pattern of play and he tells the recruitment team this is what I am looking for see if you can find this or that sort of player.

You don't need to be spending millions or even hundreds of thousands but you probably need a bit of luck and the stars to align but there are nearly 1000 players released by clubs at the end of each season not to mention all those playing in non league and those who are up for loan from the EPL and EFL.

There are plenty of players out there it's just finding the right ones for your team and that obviously fit into your financial bracket.

Both the recruitment team and the coach are important in this but the coach always has to have the final say.

It's his team, his tactics and his neck on the line at the end of the day.
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It's that "luck" which probably underpins everything. The coach sets the tactics and style of play and then the recruitment find the type of player (and type of attitude) to fit in with the club- absolutely on the nose.

But it's still the luck of the draw how those players turn out when they arrive- Whittaker last season was very meh (compared to the hype) whereas this season his is gold. Nlundulu had more clubs chasing him than Johnson the previous season....go figure. The translation of what looks good on paper and video and what they is realised when the same players arrives with us.....may not be the same BUT, ultimately, that is the role of the recruitment team to get right.

That said, a four season contract should mean we give at least 2 seasons before we should see really a team shaped in the manager's ethos. Six months, considering MK inherited Ayoma, Robson, Poole, Sander, Sorensen, Hopper, Bishop, House, Jackson, Walsh and Kendall, is never going to be time to even begin to judge what is happening. However looking at the players who were here when MK arrived, you can see why, in the end, the team this season is now built around a defensive system.

The challenge with the accounts is to keep an income stream which matches the expenditure- investment is all well and good but we have to service that investment with an interest return each year so some of the overspend this season will be servicing the investment return. The more investment, the bigger the investment return. At least, as I understand it.
 
StrangelyBrown said:
The challenge with the accounts is to keep an income stream which matches the expenditure- investment is all well and good but we have to service that investment with an interest return each year so some of the overspend this season will be servicing the investment return. The more investment, the bigger the investment return. At least, as I understand it.
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There has been no “servicing of the investment” - assuming you mean dividends or something similar.

Loans are usually repaid with interest, but not share purchases - hence well renowned football finance experts citing our investors up as excellent custodians.
 
Liam Scully said:
There has been no “servicing of the investment” - assuming you mean dividends or something similar.

Loans are usually repaid with interest, but not share purchases - hence well renowned football finance experts citing our investors up as excellent custodians.
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Sound Liam- that's why I added "as I understand it". Cheers for clarifying.
 
StrangelyBrown said:
Sound Liam- that's why I added "as I understand it". Cheers for clarifying.
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Touting the money put by the board and supporters as "investment" is a complete misnomer. That implies that a return is expected on the money put in. Right now the only way those putting money in could expect any "return" on their investment is to sell their shares (which would only really recoup the money they have spent and not gain them any net return on their "investment".)

Until one or more persons is prepared to approach our "investors" with an offer to buy the shares (and ownership of the club) the money currently being put in is reinforcing the punchline to the old joke about "how do you make a small fortune in football..."

This is the huge difference between our owners and the likes of say Newcastle where when Ashley sold the club the new buyers had to buy out his loans to Newcastle to the tune of just over a 100 million quid as well as the roughly 200m quid for the shares. The new owners of Newcastle basically paid 300m quid for a 200m quid club making it a hugely unattractive proposition for all but the most profligate of buyers.
 
Liam Scully said:
Hi all,

Fascinating reading all the various comments. As usual, don't think it is productive giving a blow-by-blow response. We will ensure to answer any questions and provide a more detailed narrative at the forthcoming AGM (end of Feb - announcement due imminently)

I will provide one comment/context, however.

For clarity, UK employment law still very much applies to managers, coaches and players. Always surprises me why people think it does not.

Outside of being sacked for gross misconduct (high bar to meet the GM threshold), an (ex) employee is still due their notice and unused holiday pay on termination.

Another point to note is that it is customary for the notice period to match either way. Notice period to the club is effectively compensation should Bigger Club FC come in for your manager.

Now, in theory (only), if notice and holiday pay is 10 gold coins, yet the club and employee agree to a different (lower) sum, would this not be a mutual agreement?

Liam
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Depends on how long the notice is when any contract is signed. I guess a period of notice could be for example one month or one year. Surely no club nowadays where sacking a manager is a regular occurrence would have a notice the length of the contract. Remember MK is on a 4 year contract, nobody would give a rookie manager a 4 yr contract without a short notice period, would they? Christ I hope not !
 
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