👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread | Page 56 | Vital Football

👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread

PL Standings: Week 32 2016/17 . Guardiola’s first season
PositionClubPlayedWonDrawnLostGoal DifferencePoints
1Leicester City3119932366
2Tottenham Hotspur32171143262
3Arsenal3117772258
4Manchester City3116692454
5West Ham United31131261253
6Manchester United3014881150
7Southampton3113810947
8Stoke City3213
 
PL Standings: Week 32 2016/17 . Guardiola’s first season
PositionClubPlayedWonDrawnLostGoal DifferencePoints
1Leicester City3119932366
2Tottenham Hotspur32171143262
3Arsenal3117772258
4Manchester City3116692454
5West Ham United31131261253
6Manchester United3014881150
7Southampton3113810947
8Stoke City3213
Yeah they were only 8 pts behind us in 4th with a game in hand.

What i find more shocking is how we ended up finishing 3rd in a 2 horse race. Even for Spurs that took some doing.
 
Tactics, tactics, tactics. It's all on Ange. The problem seems to be that his game plan relies on scoring more goals than the opposition. Fine if it works, but we are conceding too many and not scoring enough.

We did have a team that conceded 65 goals one season, but scored 115. So the strategy can work but the GD ratio is not favouring Ange at the moment. Either he needs to tighten the defence or the strikers need to be more effective. Ideally, both would be good!
 
I’m convinced our problems stem from the midfield , and have done for a long while .
We need to win the ball
, keep the ball
, stop it getting to our back line , whilst at the same time , moving it forward , at pace , to our forwards .

We haven’t had a midfield that can do that for a long time .
Absolutely. I wonder if that young Croatian could be tempted. What's his name?
 
Here is an excerpt from Jack Pitt-Brooke's article in The Athletic. It is well worth a read.


You can get a sense of where this might end up. Many or even most Spurs fans proudly inside the tent, in communion with their leader and one another, convinced of the rightness of his message and his methods. Some fans will prefer to station themselves outside the tent and plead with those inside it to make more of an accommodation with the real world. This distinction, inside or out, does not leave much room for fans who might consider themselves Ange-agnostic or Ange-ambivalent. But that is the way of the world.

Maybe it was inevitable that it would come to this. English football has a strange relationship with foreign managers who arrive here with a clear set of ideas. We always tell them that theories and philosophies are all well and good but that the ultimate idea must always be to simply Win Football Matches. And that the way to do this is with pragmatic common sense. (Only in this country do we think that the way to implement an idea is to water it down, but then English anti-intellectualism has very deep roots.)

It was like this when Guardiola arrived here in 2016, was berated for saying that he was not a “coach for tackles”, before going on to win five Premier League titles in his first seven seasons. It was the same for Marcelo Bielsa when he took over at Leeds United in 2018, before winning the Championship and then guiding Leeds to a ninth-place Premier League finish, their best for a generation. Neither man diluted his approach in order for it to work. Neither decided to meet the English media halfway. Had they done so, defending deep, keeping it tight, no-nonsense common sense football, it is hard to imagine that they would have had the same success.
 
Here is an excerpt from Jack Pitt-Brooke's article in The Athletic. It is well worth a read.


You can get a sense of where this might end up. Many or even most Spurs fans proudly inside the tent, in communion with their leader and one another, convinced of the rightness of his message and his methods. Some fans will prefer to station themselves outside the tent and plead with those inside it to make more of an accommodation with the real world. This distinction, inside or out, does not leave much room for fans who might consider themselves Ange-agnostic or Ange-ambivalent. But that is the way of the world.

Maybe it was inevitable that it would come to this. English football has a strange relationship with foreign managers who arrive here with a clear set of ideas. We always tell them that theories and philosophies are all well and good but that the ultimate idea must always be to simply Win Football Matches. And that the way to do this is with pragmatic common sense. (Only in this country do we think that the way to implement an idea is to water it down, but then English anti-intellectualism has very deep roots.)

It was like this when Guardiola arrived here in 2016, was berated for saying that he was not a “coach for tackles”, before going on to win five Premier League titles in his first seven seasons. It was the same for Marcelo Bielsa when he took over at Leeds United in 2018, before winning the Championship and then guiding Leeds to a ninth-place Premier League finish, their best for a generation. Neither man diluted his approach in order for it to work. Neither decided to meet the English media halfway. Had they done so, defending deep, keeping it tight, no-nonsense common sense football, it is hard to imagine that they would have had the same success.
It's a very good article.
 
Here is an excerpt from Jack Pitt-Brooke's article in The Athletic. It is well worth a read.


You can get a sense of where this might end up. Many or even most Spurs fans proudly inside the tent, in communion with their leader and one another, convinced of the rightness of his message and his methods. Some fans will prefer to station themselves outside the tent and plead with those inside it to make more of an accommodation with the real world. This distinction, inside or out, does not leave much room for fans who might consider themselves Ange-agnostic or Ange-ambivalent. But that is the way of the world.

Maybe it was inevitable that it would come to this. English football has a strange relationship with foreign managers who arrive here with a clear set of ideas. We always tell them that theories and philosophies are all well and good but that the ultimate idea must always be to simply Win Football Matches. And that the way to do this is with pragmatic common sense. (Only in this country do we think that the way to implement an idea is to water it down, but then English anti-intellectualism has very deep roots.)

It was like this when Guardiola arrived here in 2016, was berated for saying that he was not a “coach for tackles”, before going on to win five Premier League titles in his first seven seasons. It was the same for Marcelo Bielsa when he took over at Leeds United in 2018, before winning the Championship and then guiding Leeds to a ninth-place Premier League finish, their best for a generation. Neither man diluted his approach in order for it to work. Neither decided to meet the English media halfway. Had they done so, defending deep, keeping it tight, no-nonsense common sense football, it is hard to imagine that they would have had the same success.

Yet the first thing Pep did with Kyle Walker was teach him to be a defender first and knock Poch's philosophy out of him of "just get forward at all times". Pep's biggest collection of players has always been defenders, especially centre halves, but they have to be able play a bit. One of his most defensive smart players is his most dangerous in the attacking third, KDB. Another is Bernardo Silva.

As for Bielsa, I don't get the analogy. He took 2 seasons to get Leeds up and had lost his job within another 2 years. They were every neutrals pet club for playing nicely but losing. That was because they shipped goals due to his tactics. He burnt the players out and broke a fair few.

I'm hoping Ange is way more Pep than Bielsa if I'm honest.
 
It is a truism that it is easier to defend than attack, whether in warfare or sport. I also believe that that defending as far as possible away from from your base has benefits but only to a point. We make it far too easy to break our lines with minimum cover in reserve. Fine if we are scoring for fun but not just playing keepball. I get that Ange wants more from the front 3/5 but hey, the opposition also knows that it is easier to defend than attack. Just saying.
 
How did we do in the first 10 games before our schedule went nuts and injuries hit us hard? He has a very small squad for the style he wants to play. We don't have much resilience in that regard.

I have said this before as well....the first chunk of games that we found success...nobody was ready for us or AP's tactics and kind of surprised everyone. We have all seen teams starting to adjust and now they know how to play against that singular tactical setup. If we don't adjust or change tactics, I don't think it really matters who we trot out there...
 
I have said this before as well....the first chunk of games that we found success...nobody was ready for us or AP's tactics and kind of surprised everyone. We have all seen teams starting to adjust and now they know how to play against that singular tactical setup. If we don't adjust or change tactics, I don't think it really matters who we trot out there...
I tend to disagree with this, it's not like we were carving teams apart. Our wins are coming in very similar fashion now and just squeezing over the line against the majority of teams.
 
I tend to disagree with this, it's not like we were carving teams apart. Our wins are coming in very similar fashion now and just squeezing over the line against the majority of teams.
Spurs are like my fave engine the V8, but due to reasons beyond our control it is only firing on 4 cylinders, and I believe that is what opposing Teams have spotted not just the way we play. COYS


Yes to both. We were scoring. Everybody was scoring.
 
I am not exactly sure what the argument is....teams gameplan and watch film. When AP first arrived, we started playing 100% different from we did the year prior....even we were all shocked at how fast we adapted to APs system....we went from a extremely passive boring counter attack only team....to a very aggressive possession oriented team.

I believe this was unexpected...for sure at how fast we employed it....and we reaped the benefits rightfully so and banked a lot of points.

But teams adapt and learn and explore counter tactics....and eventually someone will figure it out and WHAM...everyone starts using it to some extent.

This is my opinion on the story arc of this season. (and I do know injuries and bad luck ravaged us for a bit...our issue was compounded by our extreme lack of quality depth in those areas)