Andy Hess | Page 2 | Vital Football

Andy Hess

Wayne.Kerr said:
I still think it was a mistake to put Hess in charge after we got promoted to what is now the Championship. It was a time when Scally could have established us in that division. We lost players who were never replaced and I believe Hess' inexperience took its toll in the end. If he came back to manage now, I think he'd do things quite differently.
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I’d say Hess did establish us in that league. We were comfortable for three seasons. People may argue that was because of Taylor’s recommended signings, but that’s just an opinion, not a fact. We will never know if we’d have done better under Taylor the whole time, or if a more experienced manager replaced him rather than Hess. But he did a bloody good job for three years whilst also contributing as a player. I can’t think of a more successful modern-day player manager.

I think by 2003 we were as established as any small team in that division. We started the 2003/04 season with optimism but we had an ageing squad and a lack of resource. We had brilliant servants on good wages nearing the end of their contracts, with no assets to sell after Marlon was sold in late 2003 (and even he went for pittance). Our last class and consistent player (Shaw) was sold shortly after, and we were left with injury-prone Wallace and Johnson, Sidibe, and then Agyemang, who never fulfilled his potential.

Our form before Marlon left was decent - he and Wallace were scoring goals (I particular recall Millwall and Norwich home games). We just about competed after he left until Shaw left. Then we turned to absolute shit and ended up panic-buying Henderson and Gary Wales.

We could argue Hess fucked up signing Wallace and Johnson, but Wallace especially was brilliant when fit.

For a club of our size, we did bloody well having five straight years up there. Not many do that. A few similar have been up there in recent years (Colchester, Peterborough, Scunthorpe to name a few), but none have lasted the five straight years we did. Yes, Hess run out of ideas and probably left five months late. But to blame his inexperience is inaccurate in my opinion. It didn’t help, of course, but it was more a resource thing - average/old players in particular.

I also wouldn’t have Hess back now. Maybe when we’re in the conference, though!
 
bathnightattheminogu said:
I don’t post on here much anymore though I do read the site most days.
I just felt that I had to say, ffs Wayne, grow up.
You seem to be getting more cantankerous by the day and just seem to argue for the sake of arguing.
You have now resorted to childish one word retorts without any reason or thought.
Get a grip man!
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Get a grip? I come up with my views on Hess and it's shot down in flames instead of being accepted as an opinion.
 
OK opinions. I don't think anyone else could have given us the relative success we enjoyed in the championship, other than Andy Hessenthaler. No one else could have galvanised that group of players to achieve what they did and all done on a modest and declining budget. He ended up with a reduced backroom staff and insufficient resources to renew. That is not to criticise anyone for that situaution because we had small crowds for the division and no sugar daddy.

Time and tide caught up with that team and Hessenthaler himself but it was a special time to be a Gills fan. Taylor turned the job down and expressed concern at the expectations placed on the new manager. He also made clear just how much it would cost to produce a competitive team. We did far better than any outside Kent expected.
 
NathanH_GFC said:
I’d say Hess did establish us in that league. We were comfortable for three seasons. People may argue that was because of Taylor’s recommended signings, but that’s just an opinion, not a fact.

Then we turned to absolute shit and ended up panic-buying Henderson and Gary Wales.

!
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A deal for Chris Hope had been agreed in March after the Gillingham verses Scunthorpe match. Chris feared the deal wouldn't go through when Taylor left. As this story appeared in an official matchday programme when Chris was featured in the stars of the past article then this can be taken as fact rather than opinion.

Marlon King was signed prior to Hess being made manager. Even if Hess's announcement was delayed a week, the deal would have happened at a speed only seen on transfer deadline day. Worth baring in mind Hess was playing every Saturday in a different league to King so Hess would not have come across King prior to the signing. While who recommended King has not been confirmed by club source, I find it remarkable and a stretch to think a player who at the time was focused on his playing would Have extensive knowledge of players in lower leagues.

I'm sure Shaw would also be a Taylor signing for similar reasons to King, even if he signed days after Hess was made manager. Plus Shaw was being linked with us on rumour sites prior to Hess taking over.

Interesting you claim three of our most successful signings as Hess signings but then continue by suggesting all future signings were terrible. Hess's problem is that he was too loyal to his former aging team mates and offered new contracts rather than release and replace. All the players signed by Pulis that he got promoted with stayed a new contract too many.

And that shit panic buy would be Darius Henderson who left us and then spent a number of seasons playing in the premier league? I liked Darius Henderson despite being the Wilkinson at the time. LookiNg at his stats he was reasonably prolific everywhere except at Priestfield.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
Get a grip? I come up with my views on Hess and it's shot down in flames instead of being accepted as an opinion.
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Mr Pot: "Hello Mr Kettle"
Mr Kettle: "Oh hi Mr Pot!"
Mr Pot: "Hmm, I notice you happen to be black"
Mr Kettle: "Fickle off you racist can't"
 
I don’t know any differently to argue with the credibility of your comments Baghdad, but not sure I agree with your logic. Hess was playing on a Saturday so couldn’t have seen King/Shaw play live, agreed - can you remind me which matches of ours Taylor missed to specifically watch them on those Saturdays, as I’m pretty sure he was in our dugout watching Hess? I’m not suggesting they were Hess signings, I just don’t buy into the fact the only reason we had three good years is because of the scouting/recruitment done for him.

Henderson was definitely a panic-buy in my opinion. We were all chuffed when he went out on loan, and even more chuffed when he came back a better, fitter player. He had a decent 2004/05 season for us once he returned from the loan, and then went on to be a good player for other sides. He clearly developed throughout his career and I actually liked him, but I’d say pre-Swindon loan he was no better than Bas Savage was in 2007 (in fact probably worse, as Bas actually caused opposition problems).
 
Nobody is claiming Hess is the world's best manager .He made mistakes same as all of our managers to one degree or other.Hess by championship standards was probably on a low wage and he was playing a lot of the time.To say the club did not get value is madness.Hess more than earned every penny he earned during that spell with us.If only everyone during our history had done as much and cared as much we would not be where we are now.
 
NathanH_GFC said:
I don’t know any differently to argue with the credibility of your comments Baghdad, but not sure I agree with your logic. Hess was playing on a Saturday so couldn’t have seen King/Shaw play live, agreed - can you remind me which matches of ours Taylor missed to specifically watch them on those Saturdays, as I’m pretty sure he was in our dugout watching Hess? I’m not suggesting they were Hess signings, I just don’t buy into the fact the only reason we had three good years is because of the scouting/recruitment done for him.
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If Taylor was doing his job then as the manager he would have been interacting with the scouting team and might have popped over the Barnet on the odd occassion if they were playing one Tuesday we weren't. As per Hope's comments that his move was discussed in March then I think it likely we had already approached Barnet and Millwall about King and Shaw before Hess was made manager.

Hess was fortunate that he inherited a team of leaders that Pulis signed and then the extra quality that Taylor was almost certainly responsible for. Where credit can be given to Hess is that he got the best out of those players he inherited where he could have got things wrong and the team underachieved. Hess was intelligent enough to realise he shouldn't tinker too much with the system that Pulis and Taylor was following.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
If Taylor was doing his job then as the manager he would have been interacting with the scouting team and might have popped over the Barnet on the odd occassion if they were playing one Tuesday we weren't. As per Hope's comments that his move was discussed in March then I think it likely we had already approached Barnet and Millwall about King and Shaw before Hess was made manager.

Hess was fortunate that he inherited a team of leaders that Pulis signed and then the extra quality that Taylor was almost certainly responsible for. Where credit can be given to Hess is that he got the best out of those players he inherited where he could have got things wrong and the team underachieved. Hess was intelligent enough to realise he shouldn't tinker too much with the system that Pulis and Taylor was following.
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Hess’ Championship teams had a style of play that was distinctly different from the teams of Taylor and Pulis before him.

We also consistently finished above teams with far greater resources than our own.

To simply dismiss his achievements as the work of Taylor and Pulis is utterly ridiculous.
 
nibbles said:
Hess’ Championship teams had a style of play that was distinctly different from the teams of Taylor and Pulis before him.

We also consistently finished above teams with far greater resources than our own.

To simply dismiss his achievements as the work of Taylor and Pulis is utterly ridiculous.
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I didn't dismiss his achievements. My point was that he built upon the foundations that other managers put down and got the best out of them. He didn't build the squad but he set them up correctly to be competitive. What I mean by saying he was fortunate is that usually when we hire a new manager then he gets the job because the prior manager failed and the inherited team is unbalanced and full of players simply not up to scratch. He inherited a squad that needed very little tinkering and a spine of players who were good for 3-4 years before age caught up with them.
 
You have described the work of a good manager Rob.

Pulis, Taylor and Hess were all very good indeed in my opinion. I think some fans tend to overestimate Pulis's achievements and underestimate the other two.

Taylor & Hess are long time friends and colleagues and the idea that they would not have discussed those players together is unthinkable.
 
jogills said:
Taylor & Hess are long time friends and colleagues and the idea that they would not have discussed those players together is unthinkable.
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I find it unthinkable that any manager would discuss the transfer policy with one of his players in terms of who a club's transfer targets should be. Although it wouldn't be surprising if it was discussed with Butler since he was part of Taylor's coaching team.

Speculation on my part but the day after we won the play off final I would have expected Taylor to hand Scally a shopping list of targets.

The only time I think Taylor and Hess would have had a dicussion was after Taylor had left and Hess was in the process of being named manager.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
I find it unthinkable that any manager would discuss the transfer policy with one of his players in terms of who a club's transfer targets should be. Although it wouldn't be surprising if it was discussed with Butler since he was part of Taylor's coaching team.

Speculation on my part but the day after we won the play off final I would have expected Taylor to hand Scally a shopping list of targets.

The only time I think Taylor and Hess would have had a dicussion was after Taylor had left and Hess was in the process of being named manager.
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Wrong Rob. Hess was part of the coaching team the year we went up, which was why Smith/Pennock were captain during the season. If you’re going to discredit people, make sure your facts are correct.
 
NathanH_GFC said:
Wrong Rob. Hess was part of the coaching team the year we went up, which was why Smith/Pennock were captain during the season. If you’re going to discredit people, make sure your facts are correct.
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I'll clarify my point better. Hess was primarily a player who helped with some coaching. I don't think Hess was in a senior enough coaching position that he would be involved in the scouting side of things. Pre-match he'd be warming up rather than warming the other players up. Hence why I described him as a player as that was his main role.

I mention Butler as he was assistant manager if I recall and was in semi retirement as a player. He made a handful of late substitute appearances in the final run in to the season and started the season not intending to be a player. Butler as the most senior member of the coaching and management team would have been Taylor's sounding board.
 
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