Afghanistan n/g | Vital Football

Afghanistan n/g

I wouldn't pretend to know the details but you would think the Afghan army would be very well armed and trained given 20 years of western support. For them to fold so easily just doesn't add up.

I'm not a fan of us getting involved in other countries internal affairs because to Bidens point you can't get back out unless they choose to take control of their own security.

I feel for the relatives of the Afghan and Western service men and women who gave their lives for what appears to be in vain.

I also feel for the people of that country who don't want to go back to the barbary of Taliban rule but we armed their forces and we trained their forces but their forces would appear not to want to fight for a different Afghanistan - maybe, just maybe too many would prefer Taliban rule over "western" democracy.

Other than getting our people and those Afghans who worked for us we should stay out of it. We gave the Afghani people a chance of a kind of democracy but their armed forces clearly can't or won't fight for it.
 
RIP Afghanistan.
You have to feel for the families of those 457 British service personnel who gave their lives in an attempt to see off the Taliban and the thousands who have been injured and will have to carry for the rest of their lives the memories of that dreadful twenty year conflict.
The US suffered many more casualties along with other NATO members, we can only hope now the Taliban will be a tad more understanding with the people of Afghanistan that they were 20+ years ago.
 
valenciagill said:
The women there will be the first to find out , unfortunately.
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I thought this was done on the us president thready thingy.

There is no surprise whatsoever that the takeover has been so quick. Should not listen to the media.

A corrupt government backed by the us was not popular at all in the country. The army was not fully trained it just had money and resources pumped in to support the us arms industry. The soldiers were just there for the pay, why would they die for someone elses imposed wishes.

The US created the monster of the Taliban and islamist extremists and then f the country over to make a buck from the turmoil.
The people were f over by the government and the taliban so exactly where were their lives improved.

As i said before destabilise a country and then keep them down while the war machine makes their profit and then just pull out leaving the country worse than when you went in.
 
markinkent said:
I wouldn't pretend to know the details but you would think the Afghan army would be very well armed and trained given 20 years of western support. For them to fold so easily just doesn't add up.

I'm not a fan of us getting involved in other countries internal affairs because to Bidens point you can't get back out unless they choose to take control of their own security.

I feel for the relatives of the Afghan and Western service men and women who gave their lives for what appears to be in vain.

I also feel for the people of that country who don't want to go back to the barbary of Taliban rule but we armed their forces and we trained their forces but their forces would appear not to want to fight for a different Afghanistan - maybe, just maybe too many would prefer Taliban rule over "western" democracy.

Other than getting our people and those Afghans who worked for us we should stay out of it. We gave the Afghani people a chance of a kind of democracy but their armed forces clearly can't or won't fight for it.
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Biden! He and his war hungry arms gang are not blameless as he has supported the us actions since day one and in fact was part of an administration that was in charge for much of this f up.

It was Biden that announced when they were leaving at which time about 15% of the country was under taliban control. Since then day by day more had been taken. We must remember that the country was run by the taliban when the us went in.
 
It's bad news whatever way you look at it Jerry.
Blaming the US or UK doesn't change anything.
It's the girls snatched off the streets that will pay the price.
 
Jerryattrick said:
I thought this was done on the us president thready thingy.

There is no surprise whatsoever that the takeover has been so quick. Should not listen to the media.

A corrupt government backed by the us was not popular at all in the country. The army was not fully trained it just had money and resources pumped in to support the us arms industry. The soldiers were just there for the pay, why would they die for someone elses imposed wishes.

The US created the monster of the Taliban and islamist extremists and then f the country over to make a buck from the turmoil.
The people were f over by the government and the taliban so exactly where were their lives improved.

As i said before destabilise a country and then keep them down while the war machine makes their profit and then just pull out leaving the country worse than when you went in.
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Spot on. I wouldn't be surprised if a major portion of the Afghan army had Taliban sympathies anyway. Fingers crossed for the Afghan people that the Taliban are a lot more tolerant....I highly doubt it though.
 
valenciagill said:
It's bad news whatever way you look at it Jerry.
Blaming the US or UK doesn't change anything.
It's the girls snatched off the streets that will pay the price.
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The case when the the taliban moved out last time was that young girls were being raped and many areas of the country worse off under the new government.
It not a case of blaming but a view on the actual circumstances that caused the issue instead of believing that the Taliban mysteriously appeared.
The situation was purposely created and it will continue unless people realise what their governments are up to.
 
mehmets_curlies said:
Spot on. I wouldn't be surprised if a major portion of the Afghan army had Taliban sympathies anyway. Fingers crossed for the Afghan people that the Taliban are a lot more tolerant....I highly doubt it though.
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They certainly wont be more tolerant unless a deal has been made to give them money.
The groups we have financed, armed and directed in Afghanistan, Syria and Libya were all extremists and that was encouraged along with terrorist training so no surprise that they turn out to be well- intolerant extremists.

When Isis were growing it was obvious that they would be a danger that could not be controlled. Instead of wiping them from the face of the earth the west funded and armed them.
 
valenciagill said:
Yes , and those modern weapons have been given over to the taliban. They may now have access to helicopters.
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No really that much use to them though. They will find their standard 4x4 far more useful. Also depends whether the trained pilots defect to the taliban

Biggest problem for the taliban is they might find being in opposition and seizing control is a lot easier than being the government. Western aid will stop and who knows if their sympathisers in Saudi and Pakistan will fill the gap in economic aid.

I don't know but I suspect the afghan economy can stand on its own two feet. Its the people who will suffer of course.
 
Jerryattrick said:
Biden! He and his war hungry arms gang are not blameless as he has supported the us actions since day one and in fact was part of an administration that was in charge for much of this f up.

It was Biden that announced when they were leaving at which time about 15% of the country was under taliban control. Since then day by day more had been taken. We must remember that the country was run by the taliban when the us went in.
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Problem is Jerry what were the options? Remain there forever? At what human and financial cost ? At the end of WW2 we occupied Germany while it transitioned back to a friendly government it didn't take that long as it already had the basis of western values

Afghanistan never did and likely never will. I agree with your point that many in the afghan security services were just there for the money and had no time for the corruption in government.

After many years of arming and training their security services at what point do you say over to you to determine your future?

It's a shit outcome for the civilians but I hope it serves to teach us to stop meddling in other countries or better to say ideologies. Im not sure that we have too many successes to reflect on.
 
markinkent said:
It's a shit outcome for the civilians but I hope it serves to teach us to stop meddling in other countries or better to say ideologies. Im not sure that we have too many successes to reflect on.
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Yep, too many white saviours trying to save the world.

The mistake is thinking we are all the same underneath, just with different colour skin. They are Muslims, they are not the same as us.
 
markinkent said:
Problem is Jerry what were the options? Remain there forever? At what human and financial cost ? At the end of WW2 we occupied Germany while it transitioned back to a friendly government it didn't take that long as it already had the basis of western values

Afghanistan never did and likely never will. I agree with your point that many in the afghan security services were just there for the money and had no time for the corruption in government.

After many years of arming and training their security services at what point do you say over to you to determine your future?

It's a shit outcome for the civilians but I hope it serves to teach us to stop meddling in other countries or better to say ideologies. Im not sure that we have too many successes to reflect on.
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Germany had millions of dollars plus resources poured into the country and industries under the marshal plan.
Afghanistan had little in comparison.

The uk has a poor record of leaving occupied/colonial countries in a settled state. India for example where we left early and resulted in the displacement or death of millions.

The US of course are experts at this.
We were there for years so where was the exit plan or state building during that period. No plan for removing those who worked for or helped US and uk troops.

We did nothing about the imprisoned terrorists there and they have now been released.

Media seems to just concentrate on womens rights ffs. Not a priority when shelter, starvation or death is on your doorstep.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Yep, too many white saviours trying to save the world.

The mistake is thinking we are all the same underneath, just with different colour skin. They are Muslims, they are not the same as us.
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Indians were also hindus in 1947, destabilised countries in south America were all christians, the people of Yugoslavia were mainly christians, etc.
 
Most of the Afghan army may have been in it for the money, but they hadn't been paid for months. Then they hear that the government has legged it to safer countries and left them to it. So naturally they legged it too.
In the west there will be a lot of egg on a lot of faces in various governments, not only US and UK, but EU and others even Turkey had 500 troops guarding the airport. Once Joe Biden decided to get out sharpish the other governments had little choice but to follow.
Going in, in 2001 was wrong and as usual ill thought through, as many said at the time, Sadly the west's (in the end this was a NATO operation) reputation is now in the gutter. Politicians must now accept trying to impose western values on 'third world' countries is a non starter. Now we are out let's stay out!
 
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