A wash-up of topics | Page 3 | Vital Football

A wash-up of topics

SedgleyImps points about Taylor and Ferguson were very pertinent. Might be worthwhile looking into those two particular histories.
I know them and hope futsal will be as successful as them.
All I'm saying is that is very disappointing he can't show even small sigh of improvement,change ,different approach.
As it stands he looks like poor people's Kennedy.
 
The sad thing is in todays society you can believe these half brains doing this sort of totally unacceptable rubbish . We are very lucky to have both Liam and Harvey making themselves available around the Fan Zone and I have thanked them both for what they are doing for our Club and would suggest that anybody else does the same when appropriate. Regarding Harvey and his family, they are very welcome at LCFC and to our City and it is great to have them.
The stuff about Jovon is also very unfair, we have a young lad been thrown into the first team as the last forward standing virtually, he is doing his best in a very tough League and gets abused for it. Give him a break ! Just imagine if he is your family and how you would react to some of the rubbish he gets from half wits. Hopefully he will be out of the firing line shortly and get experience elsewhere.
UTI.
 
Football history is littered with some of the best managers in the world not making a difference when they first changed clubs- Alex Ferguson was one game away from the sack at Utd (Forest in the FA Cup). Thankfully the board understood much more than a number of clueless fans about long term planning.

Managers don't make a difference when they first join way more times than you get a new "bounce"- under the Messiahs we lost 5 out of the first 11 league games in 2016/17...... ridiculous hyperbole doesn't make your point, it completely reverses it.
Understand that. All I'm saying he (skubala) didn't show any signs of positive change. Don't expect him hit the ground and winning every game but he took us back. Lost as many games at home as MK in the whole last season.
I'm disappointed with lack of attacking intent and any signs of what he actually wants to do
 
Great post Liam. Excellent leadership. Perhaps paraphrasing a little but reassuring to see board agree model/method/vision whatever you want to call it is still right one overall but mistakes have been made recently with some of the implementation. Think this echoes general consensus amongst most reasoned minded supporters. Sounds like we are now having to hit a bit of a refresh due to this. I am sure most supporters will stick with club through this, many of us have been through much worse! Also good to see board listen to constructive criticism. Just sorry about the few who belong in the gutter who have resorted to abuse, no need for this at all.
 
Great post Liam. Excellent leadership. Perhaps paraphrasing a little but reassuring to see board agree model/method/vision whatever you want to call it is still right one overall but mistakes have been made recently with some of the implementation. Think this echoes general consensus amongst most reasoned minded supporters. Sounds like we are now having to hit a bit of a refresh due to this. I am sure most supporters will stick with club through this, many of us have been through much worse! Also good to see board listen to constructive criticism. Just sorry about the few who belong in the gutter who have resorted to abuse, no need for this at all.

I agree with this and I think it's the right way to go too... I'm just wondering how much is realistically implementation/execution issues or if this is always going to bloody hard?

There are a lot of people after the types of player we want - most teams have had to cut their cloth accordingly (obviously with some exceptions) but everyone is looking for value. And no longer are we just competing with teams in England - the success of the young England age groups and players like Sancho have seen the proliferation of English academy players across Europe. Standard Liege have an English kid from Tottenham's academy who couldn't get in their first team, Anderlecht have one from Chelsea, watch Juventus the other day and one of their best young players is a lad from Islington released by Chelsea.

Obviously we're not competing with Juventus and Borussia Dortmund but if those players go there, the next tier are moving around the Premier League, then Championship and then competing with other clubs around Europe in smaller ponds like Belgium or Scotland... it's a tough ask. Even Ireland now - lots of teams like MK Dons, Fleetwood, Leyton Orient have signed from Ireland recently, Trai Hume was one we were after but couldn't compete for... it's an incredibly competitive market.

Not trying to be glass half-empty about it but just in terms of selling on to bigger clubs and finding the right player - what differentiates us or allows us to have hope we can be successful speculating to accumulate at this level? Every club has access to the same data now - wannabe scouts on Twitter even have access to it (someone with the time and inclination on Twitter can (and did) identify a kid playing in the Ecuadorian league now so they probably can for PL2 players! How do we identify talent that other clubs can't spot? Or is it more likely than not we end up with your Max Sanders, Tashan Oakley-Boothe, Luke Plange types (I appreciate some of these are loan but thinking u23 Premier League type players) because the ones destined for Championship and beyond careers are out of our price range?

And even some of our biggest successes like a Scully or Edun have ended up back at this level again or only been able to move up within it like a Poole. I personally think some of our good players now are probably looking at a similar ceiling, even if they will be very good for us.

I obviously don't have the answers - just think it's a hard job and will sometimes be a hiding to nothing and that's before you throw in a few ropier signings outside of that academy focus.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if those abusing our investors will be expecting them to dip in their pockets again to fund some new January signings?
If I was receiving abuse like that I might think twice about sticking anymore money in and invest it elsewhere.
Some of our so called supporters have the brains of an amoeba.
 
At least Donald Trump made infantile derogatory nicknames for his opponents - what on earth are you doing it for our own manager who has only just started?
What I'm doing for our manager ?
Going to every game, supporting him and his team no matter what, never even thought about booing him or any previous managers, I'm simply always there.
And what I'm doing on here ?
Since it's a forum posting how I feel about trash he is serving. Talk to talk so far no front foot football...
 
Great to see Liam Scully come on here with his OP and it says a lot about the way the club is run with such a transparent approach that I was actually expecting it!

Just to add to everyone who is repulsed by the actions of a minority criticising our investors and Liam himself. It's an utter disgrace and the action of completely self-entitled morons.

I'm also unhappy with how Makama has been hung out to dry by some. He is essentially trhe equivalent of cannon fodder. There are a few posters on here who have stooped to this although usually in the heat of the moment during match threads. Those doing it 'in person' are reprehensible bullies.

Happy New Year and keep up the good work Liam!
 
So it has come to this, our "world class fans" at the first sign of any adversity whatsoever in our climb up from the National conference and at least some of our fans think the solution is to approach Liam in public and with his family and give him the benefit of their "wisdom". It beggars belief, it really does... Football fans have to be some of the most entitled, completely self-unaware bunch of peasants in the world. This is utterly ridiculous and these fans need to take a long hard look at their life and their behavior.
 
Greetings, everyone,

I'd like to take a moment to address several recurring topics and concerns that have been discussed on the forum. Before I begin, please understand that these are my personal thoughts, not an official club statement. I recognise the importance of transparency during challenging times and appreciate your feedback, but hope you understand I can’t commit to responding point by point.


The Model

Let's begin with our club's approach, often referred to as "the model."

Our progression from the National League to League One is seen as a fairytale. There is no doubt when living it, that was the overall feeling. In reality – and the information is all publicly available for you to see - a more accurate description would be a (very) well-executed plan that was suitably resourced.

Let me be clear: there is no sleight or hint of negativity in this. But our income, plus the ability of our investors to top that up, meant we had competitive budgets akin to our league positions achieved. For the plan to work, it still needed people to action the plan and action it well. Our success in this time is a proud and worthy achievement and there are countless stories of clubs with similar/more resources and massively underachieved. You only need to look at 21st and 24th place in League Two right now to see this first-hand. Therefore, we should always look back at those times with great pride.

However, competing with larger clubs in League One necessitates a different approach. Instead of referring to it as a "model," let's call it our "method."

Our method is to (on the whole) sign players pre-peak and work with them to develop them into their peak.

To add more detail, this may be end of pathway players either at end of contract and free of compensation (so 25 years old), or end of pathway (24 and under), but with agreements from their club to smaller fees, with a shared future interest in their development.

The other market is undervalued marketplaces, where we see traits and attributes comparable to League One but at smaller fees/salaries than those established/proven in the division.

Of course, the downside is that there will be bumps on the road. We will live the whole development journey, and with high-reward strategies, there is also risk.

I could further justify our approach, but the best way to detail this is to describe the alternative.

We could opt for a low-risk, low-reward strategy. In reality, I think we could be functional and sign a few more 'sure things', but these would never be the division's standout performers. Maybe unfairly, but let's call it a team of solid citizens. The truth is we would be more consistent, but we would have a hard ceiling, and the reality is we could bob in and around mid-table League One for a few years with relative certainty. Naturally, as someone in favour of the alternative, I'd argue that the fans would soon get fed up with this approach and lack of year-by-year progression, but I wholly accept I have bias.

We believe our current method is the right path for long-term success. This is then where we have to link in the game model…


Game Model / Style of Play

Our game model isn't solely about formations; it encompasses our playing style, player attributes, and team setup. Our head coach has the authority to have first and last say on who fits this model while we maintain some core principles. This approach is common among successful clubs and is more flexible than some may perceive.

One of the elements within this is that we wish to have playing traits that are similar to football, which is played higher up the pyramid.

This is important for two prime reasons.

1 – If we are to resell players for any real value, they will have to demonstrate this in a relatable team.

2 – If we are to recruit players based on sharing future success, we need to demonstrate we are committed to point 1. Without this, they would favour upfront fees, which again would be beyond us.

Investment/Projected Losses

We have been open and transparent regarding projecting £3m losses this financial year. We will also soon publish last year's results, which aren't a million miles away from this years projected, despite achieving a total club record for player sales.

The investors, which at this current time is predominantly the Jabara family, have signed up to these losses as we are in a building stage, but we all agree that this is not sustainable in the long term.

Redistribution/reform will help, but we also need to self-serve, realise previous investments, and see supported commercial strategies come to fruition. An example is the matchday programme, which was a £10k loss-making item per annum, which c240 on average purchased. We have to be more savvy with how we apply our resources to deliver a return, and this is where we are currently focussing our attention.

It should also be noted how the investors, in particular Clive in the past, have made commitments to things that underpin the club in the medium/long term. If it was a vanity project or an investment made selfishly, he/they could have poured their money into short-term projects, which no doubt would have provided more immediate returns. Crass, I accept, but I refer to this like junkies on a shot of heroin. Many owners go from one shot of heroin to the next until they get fed up and leave the club in no better (or even a worse place) than they found it. Clive, Harvey and others continue to act selflessly and without exception. I'll do more on this later, but I have no hesitation in saying people need to be careful what they wish for. Not least a group of fans who opted to provide Harvey with some pretty curt treatment and words walking down the steps post-Bolton. I have no hesitation in saying massive shame on you. Not least, as it was done so cowardly.


Fan Feeling

On this more broadly, do I understand the current level of frustration? 100% I do. Please be assured I am as equally frustrated.

That said, that is a key reason why we took action. One we would rarely consider, in particular mid-season.

I wholly and firmly believe Michael is the right person for Lincoln City. Like Clive, Harvey and others, he is selfless, genuinely wants to build something, and has a track record of doing what he says he is going to do.

Undoubtedly, we are at a really challenging period if we look down a short-term lens. Performances, in particular at home over the last 30 months need to be more entertaining, and the highs need to do more to make the lows worth it.

However, we are in a building phase. Or, to be more accurate, a short/sharp demolition stage to re-build. The reason for the demolition to rebuild is 100% on me as CEO. Not Jez, not Clive, Harvey, Michael etc etc. We have made some missteps in the past 20 months and must be accountable for that. We are, and your criticisms are valid.

But… I'd like to think we are on a path to rectifying this, and we really need your support in doing so. I could list many mitigating factors, but I don't feel the need to defend my/our record.

What I will say is IF we eat ourselves at this pivotal time for the club, we will only create a lose-lose.

I know many of you provide us with your unconditional support. Likewise, I feel the generosity of others who are on the fence. I accept that. My only plea is that we stick together. If we remain together, we will be stronger for it.

I will say I have been personally upset at a couple of incidents/abuse I have received when out with my family. I have no objections to taking feedback or criticism 1:1, but I would ask if this doesn't involve my wife or young children. On a similar note, I find it challenging to take some of the reactions towards one of our young players, who is in a tough situation, doing his very best. To scapegoat a young player is disappointing, not least when most of the criticism is not fair and accurate, but that is Pandora box and one I will refrain from opening further.


Context

So, overall, we sit just outside the top third of teams from PL-League Two in terms of net performance over the past 5 seasons (36 from 92 to be specific). Within this period, we have invested time and money into strategies and projects that will provide returns to the club long after I am gone. We are trying to get the balance right between short-term and long-term and accept we have got a few things wrong along the way.

I wholly and entirely respect and understand your frustration, and I assure you we are all working tirelessly to give you a club to be proud of.

I hope this post goes someway to providing clarity and explanation where needed, and close by asking you to stand by us, accepting this comes with an expectation to deliver in the future.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

Liam
Hello Liam, thank you very much for your post. I, like all right minded fans, deplore the abuse given to Harvey, your family and yourself. It has no place at our club.
All I would say with regard to the method is that I believe the Board should be mindful of the need for some "solid citizens" in the team. One of whom is Adam Jackson, a very good player for us since he has been at the club. With him, a midfield general and a seasoned striker ( Bridcutt and Marquis are past examples) the other 8 younger players can be developed around them. I know Alan Hansen famously said you never win anything with kids but there is a lot of truth in that.
 
First, thank you Liam for your usual openness and willingness to come on the forum and explain what is going on behind closed doors. Actually, the doors are not that closed - it frustrates the hell out of me to read things on this forum from some people who don’t seem to have a clue what is happening on a day-to-day basis at the club, but knee-jerk react at a poor run of form or poor performance without showing the slightest understanding of what is actually going on across the board over the last two or three months. Most of us watch and read what is going on and tend to understand it and just have the patience to carry on in the hope that things will turn around in the near future. Everything at the club points to this happening, though not immediately. Personally I could see the Christmas fixtures would more than likely end in a loss for us, and I don’t see anything changing in the next three or four weeks with the upcoming fixtures. But, I do see some potential for the club turning things around in February given a) the fixtures, b) the potential outcome of the January window, c) the return of one or two injured/suspended players, d) more time for MS to spend with the players to instil his own brand of football. I’m not saying it’ll all come good overnight, but hopefully we will see the start of some improved performances. At the same time, let’s not put too much expectation on Freddie (if he comes back) and Jack Moylan. They are also young players and L1 is a particularly unforbidding league (I refer to the other clubs, not our own supporters).
Patience is, and always was the watchword. If you don’t have patience, either go and support a Man City, Arsenal or other Premiershite club. We don’t want you at Lincoln. We have also, in my 54 years supporting the Imps, never looked realistically at playing in the Championship (notwithstanding the Blackpool PO Final). I have a mate who supports Rotherham - he told me that there is a world of difference in the standards between L1 and the Championship - and he should know with their yo-yo existence over the last few years. Our club has a huge amount of work to do to achieve Championship football and the sooner some supporters understand that the better, instead of just mouthing-off disrespectfully at the genuine people who devote their lives to running our wonderful club - long may they stay with us and continue to be open and honest and relate to the true supporters.
By the way, I truly feel for Jovon (NOT Jovan) Makama- he is 19 years old and is still learning his trade. Most games he has come up against experienced Championship, or better, defenders and has not been overawed. Yes he was naive and way out of his depth when he first came into the side, but recently he has shown that he has very good close control and has dumped some of those defenders on their backside. He has shown an improvement and I hope he can do a Freddie Draper and really come into his own. Keep it up Jovon 👍
I still hope that, despite my advancing years, I will one day soon see the Imps playing league football in the Championship, but whatever happens, the Imps are my club - always have been and always will be. I’m just so grateful for the Cowley era, and the legacy they left, and for the genuine and honest people who run the club these days and relate to the true supporters.
Up the Imps!
 
I agree with this and I think it's the right way to go too... I'm just wondering how much is realistically implementation/execution issues or if this is always going to bloody hard?

There are a lot of people after the types of player we want - most teams have had to cut their cloth accordingly (obviously with some exceptions) but everyone is looking for value. And no longer are we just competing with teams in England - the success of the young England age groups and players like Sancho have seen the proliferation of English academy players across Europe. Standard Liege have an English kid from Tottenham's academy who couldn't get in their first team, Anderlecht have one from Chelsea, watch Juventus the other day and one of their best young players is a lad from Islington released by Chelsea.

Obviously we're not competing with Juventus and Borussia Dortmund but if those players go there, the next tier are moving around the Premier League, then Championship and then competing with other clubs around Europe in smaller ponds like Belgium or Scotland... it's a tough ask. Even Ireland now - lots of teams like MK Dons, Fleetwood, Leyton Orient have signed from Ireland recently, Trai Hume was one we were after but couldn't compete for... it's an incredibly competitive market.

Not trying to be glass half-empty about it but just in terms of selling on to bigger clubs and finding the right player - what differentiates us or allows us to have hope we can be successful speculating to accumulate at this level? Every club has access to the same data now - wannabe scouts on Twitter even have access to it (someone with the time and inclination on Twitter can (and did) identify a kid playing in the Ecuadorian league now so they probably can for PL2 players! How do we identify talent that other clubs can't spot? Or is it more likely than not we end up with your Max Sanders, Tashan Oakley-Boothe, Luke Plange types (I appreciate some of these are loan but thinking u23 Premier League type players) because the ones destined for Championship and beyond careers are out of our price range?

And even some of our biggest successes like a Scully or Edun have ended up back at this level again or only been able to move up within it like a Poole. I personally think some of our good players now are probably looking at a similar ceiling, even if they will be very good for us.

I obviously don't have the answers - just think it's a hard job and will sometimes be a hiding to nothing and that's before you throw in a few ropier signings outside of that academy focus.
agree it is a tough market, but some clubs - even ones higher up than ours may not be as well run, and may be missing some of the talent.

First couple of thoughts to help our chances:
continue to beef up the academy. Before we give up and say all the best talent is going higher, youngsters develop at different ages. Draper is a prime example, Derby missed there, didn’t think he was worth hanging onto. We have quite a few youngsters that could be developing as draper has, but maybe 1st team ready in six months, or 12.
continue to beef up the coaching side. Best way to attract and develop the rough diamonds into decent first teamers (and £££ assets).
Appleton for example had a great rep for developing the kind of player the club is talking about. His time coincided with the best loans, plus scully, bramall, Edun - seeing us as an option, and developing during their time with us. Assuming it turned out Kennedy didn’t have these skills, or the reputation (according to the board/was this one of the mistakes alluded to in the op?), you have to hope scubala was interviewed about this and his reputation for carrying this model out was checked even more thoroughly this time.

remains to be seen if there are improvements to existing players (and by extension the game play itself) in the second half of the season. on top of this the window is particularly interesting - whether the type of player we bring in matches the CEO’s description. Is scuba asking jez to bring in more montsma than O’Connor? Also the type of player scuba thinks is surplus.
I am still hoping we can make signings in certain areas, to aid overall improvement. rather than total rebuild.

uti.
 
Thank you Liam an excellent post the abuse giving to Liam and our investors is scandalous and should not be happening.

People need to remember where we have been recently playing at Tamworth and Dartford for example be careful what you wish for.
 
agree it is a tough market, but some clubs - even ones higher up than ours may not be as well run, and may be missing some of the talent.

First couple of thoughts to help our chances:
continue to beef up the academy. Before we give up and say all the best talent is going higher, youngsters develop at different ages. Draper is a prime example, Derby missed there, didn’t think he was worth hanging onto. We have quite a few youngsters that could be developing as draper has, but maybe 1st team ready in six months, or 12.
continue to beef up the coaching side. Best way to attract and develop the rough diamonds into decent first teamers (and £££ assets).
Appleton for example had a great rep for developing the kind of player the club is talking about. His time coincided with the best loans, plus scully, bramall, Edun - seeing us as an option, and developing during their time with us. Assuming it turned out Kennedy didn’t have these skills, or the reputation (according to the board/was this one of the mistakes alluded to in the op?), you have to hope scubala was interviewed about this and his reputation for carrying this model out was checked even more thoroughly this time.

remains to be seen if there are improvements to existing players (and by extension the game play itself) in the second half of the season. on top of this the window is particularly interesting - whether the type of player we bring in matches the CEO’s description. Is scuba asking jez to bring in more montsma than O’Connor? Also the type of player scuba thinks is surplus.
I am still hoping we can make signings in certain areas, to aid overall improvement. rather than total rebuild.

uti.

Yeah I think the point on a course correction post Kennedy is important - people talk about players being attractive to other clubs if we are winning games but having 25-35% possession at home was never going to see City loan Morgan Rogers or Lewis Fiorini too us. Not a good showcase for their talents.
 
It comes down to whether you have faith in the board and central figures like Jez and Liam. I sense several on here and other forums are pretty sceptical. I remain supportive, partly as I am in general a half glass full kind of person.
I think the board including Clive, have presided over a successful period in the clubs history. In terms of our standing we are as successful a club as for most of my 60 year imp supporting life. However, not everything is aligned, including the onfield entertainment, particularly at the Bank. It has been a disappointing period, with substandard performances, and it has gone on for too long.
I think that is one of the reasons that Kennedy was sacked.Liam Scully suggests in his long communication, that mistakes have been made and appointing Kennedy appears to have been one of the major ones.
Skubala is a proven coach but not at league level, so again risk has been taken in the appointment. I prefer this risk/ reward model to forever appointing journeymen , as many clubs seem to do. I think things will likely get worse, before they stabilise, particularly given the run of fixtures. However, I expect a transformed style of play sometime in the New Year.
 
I have full support in the board who have injected more financial support than any board in our long history. I also think Liam is an excellent CE.

However I am not sure yet whether they haven't made the same mistake with MS as they did with MK. Both speak/spoke, and clearly, interviewed very well - without any historical evidence at our level of being able to get a side playing in the style the board clearly want.

There is a world of difference coaching a U21/U18 side to play in your favoured style, and coaching a league team like us with some older pros and playing against managers who have far more experience and know-how than you will find in opposition U21 managers.

Time will of course tell with MS, but we could find in a years' time that Liam is talking of the last three years mistakes rather than the last two. I sincerely hope not.