The VAR / Refereeing Thread | Page 28 | Vital Football

The VAR / Refereeing Thread

80deg16minW said:
The new referees haven't had a chance to make a mistake that sticks with them. As I said earlier, I wish someone would do a 10 year analysis of all the calls made to see where a good benchmark truly lies and if there is any bias.

How would you like to work in an error prone environment where you do a decent job, but when you do make an error the national press highlight it to everyone.


No wonder we don't have decent refs, much like we don't have decent people becoming politicians.
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Spursex said:
You'll find many ref bias analysis/studies on line, and as you might expect, they are really all inconclusive but do show weighting to 'big' teams, 'home' teams in decision-making, so pretty much as you expect - the conclusions in many of the studies was this was bought about by media/social pressures and is in fact 'only human'...and on and on...

But I agree you can't educate, inform and improve these brave souls when with the slightest error they are ripped to shreds - what is most important to me is that not once has anyone been able prove that this is due to 'crooked' decision-making.
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But the key difference is culture. In most of the 24 years of PGMOL, the culture has been an arrogant one. It was at its worst under Mike Riley who just took the wrong team culture he experienced as a ref and amplified it when he became the boss. He thought they were untouchable. Then the net circled on them and it hit absolute crisis point.

Unfortunately, those refs weren't brave souls. In my opinion, brave souls would have gone against the toxic governance bodies they worked for and said that their profession required them to use the laws of the game. That is, after all, the profession they chose. A good financial controller won't allow a booking of a bad purchase order by the sales team on a Friday afternoon to make the company's weekly commit. Referees should be no different.
 
muttley said:
In business they call it the third/third/third rule. A third are competent enough. A third can be nurtured to be competent enough. You need to clear out and replace the final third who will never make it.

Unfortunately, with PGMOL Webb started with 10/20/70. He's coming up to round 2 of culling this summer of the original 70% that included Dean, Moss, Mason etc

Have you noticed how the new referees in the PL aren't getting as much stick as the old guard? It's still the usual suspects.
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Must admit that is true regards the newbies.
 
So had a laugh on Saturday. Free-kick on the edge of the box at my local Combined Counties side. Referee starts walking his 10 steps to advise where the wall should be and I shouted the numbers out loud. He got to 9 and we all went mad when he stopped. Another free kick happened 10 mins later. This time there were 10 of us home fans shouting out the numbers. He had no choice but to make it 10 yards.

You see a count of 9 steps so much in televised football. Only refs know why they do it.
 
muttley said:
So had a laugh on Saturday. Free-kick on the edge of the box at my local Combined Counties side. Referee starts walking his 10 steps to advise where the wall should be and I shouted the numbers out loud. He got to 9 and we all went mad when he stopped. Another free kick happened 10 mins later. This time there were 10 of us home fans shouting out the numbers. He had no choice but to make it 10 yards.

You see a count of 9 steps so much in televised football. Only refs know why they do it.
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They've probably measured their stride as 1.11 yds. :giggle:
 
Nottingham Forest have submitted a formal request to the PGMOL asking for the audio recordings between officials during their defeat by Everton to be made public.

A club statement went on to say: "The club has requested this be shared for three key match incidents - Ashley Young’s challenge on Giovanni Reyna (24th minute), Ashley Young’s handball (44th minute) and Ashley Young’s challenge on Callum Hudson-Odoi (56th minute).

"We firmly advocate for the broader football community and supporters to have access to the audio and transcript for full transparency, ensuring the integrity of our sport is upheld."
 
muttley said:
So had a laugh on Saturday. Free-kick on the edge of the box at my local Combined Counties side. Referee starts walking his 10 steps to advise where the wall should be and I shouted the numbers out loud. He got to 9 and we all went mad when he stopped. Another free kick happened 10 mins later. This time there were 10 of us home fans shouting out the numbers. He had no choice but to make it 10 yards.

You see a count of 9 steps so much in televised football. Only refs know why they do it.
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Only refs know what they do , full stop.
.
 
muttley said:
But the key difference is culture. In most of the 24 years of PGMOL, the culture has been an arrogant one. It was at its worst under Mike Riley who just took the wrong team culture he experienced as a ref and amplified it when he became the boss. He thought they were untouchable. Then the net circled on them and it hit absolute crisis point.

Unfortunately, those refs weren't brave souls. In my opinion, brave souls would have gone against the toxic governance bodies they worked for and said that their profession required them to use the laws of the game. That is, after all, the profession they chose. A good financial controller won't allow a booking of a bad purchase order by the sales team on a Friday afternoon to make the company's weekly commit. Referees should be no different.
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Refereeing is an entirely different vocation. So I would disagree with any
Spursex said:
You'll find many ref bias analysis/studies on line, and as you might expect, they are really all inconclusive but do show weighting to 'big' teams, 'home' teams in decision-making, so pretty much as you expect - the conclusions in many of the studies was this was bought about by media/social pressures and is in fact 'only human'...and on and on...

But I agree you can't educate, inform and improve these brave souls when with the slightest error they are ripped to shreds - what is most important to me is that not once has anyone been able prove that this is due to 'crooked' decision-making.
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Most of the ref bias analysis I have come across has been done by supporters of supposedly hard-done by teams. Which includes anyone who recently lost a contentious game.
 
muttley said:
But the key difference is culture. In most of the 24 years of PGMOL, the culture has been an arrogant one. It was at its worst under Mike Riley who just took the wrong team culture he experienced as a ref and amplified it when he became the boss. He thought they were untouchable. Then the net circled on them and it hit absolute crisis point.

Unfortunately, those refs weren't brave souls. In my opinion, brave souls would have gone against the toxic governance bodies they worked for and said that their profession required them to use the laws of the game. That is, after all, the profession they chose. A good financial controller won't allow a booking of a bad purchase order by the sales team on a Friday afternoon to make the company's weekly commit. Referees should be no different.
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Refs need to be arrogant. And rebellion isn't easy. It's easy to talk about but when your family's future depends on your job you don't tend to bite the hand that feeds you.
 
80deg16minW said:
Refs need to be arrogant. And rebellion isn't easy. It's easy to talk about but when your family's future depends on your job you don't tend to bite the hand that feeds you.
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Arrogance is the last thing they need. They need to be non-emotional and direct communicators. No more, no less. That shoudn't stop them being career driven. Just think about the world's best ever referee, Pierluigi Collina. There are way too many attention seekers out there.

Mike Dean's personality should be documented into the referees playbook as to what NOT to be if you want to be successful in the next era.
 
muttley said:
Arrogance is the last thing they need. They need to be non-emotional and direct communicators. No more, no less. That shoudn't stop them being career driven. Just think about the world's best ever referee, Pierluigi Collina. There are way too many attention seekers out there.

Mike Dean's personality should be documented into the referees playbook as to what NOT to be if you want to be successful in the next era.
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I do wonder if Ref's should be personality profiled, or simply just good communicators?
 
muttley said:
Arrogance is the last thing they need. They need to be non-emotional and direct communicators. No more, no less. That shoudn't stop them being career driven. Just think about the world's best ever referee, Pierluigi Collina. There are way too many attention seekers out there.

Mike Dean's personality should be documented into the referees playbook as to what NOT to be if you want to be successful in the next era.
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There is a difference between being arrogant and a downright prick.
 
Spursex said:
I do wonder if Ref's should be personality profiled, or simply just good communicators?
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You would think that they could at least perform psychometric testing on their employees and, with an open mind, look for patterns. I can imagine if you're a high improvisor that might not be the best trait when you're paid to enforce the laws. Then again, when dealing with people, perhaps being able to improvise helps you to adapt better in the pressure cooker that is refereeing. As we both know, there are definitely the tools in place if there is the willingness to adopt analysis to improve.
 
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