FFP charges?

[BlackGold]

The dates are very important in this communication.
Basically it took the EPL 2 months to rule that these were not accepted - when we previously had thought they were.
First concern - if these costs are related to the ELF - how can the EPL make a judgement on them?
The lateness of informing us meant that we had no time to react to meet the 30th June deadline i.e. - rightly or wrongly we thought we were complicit and then at the last minute had to sell BJ or someone else to fund the missing £30m.
The EPL have to take some responsibility for this.

Do you think the EPL and Forest were not in communication in this period?
Genuine question, as maybe they were not, if the findings here are a presentation of documentary evidence i.e. emails, minutes, phone conversations etc.

I guess 28 days to sell BJ would be a tough ask.

 

[Polly 433]

Providing we don’t get relegated this debacle could have a silver lining in that EM has to see we build slowly and steadily. Stay in the league for three years as a minimum then build a young squad with potential investing a little each year to slowly improve. Expectations have to be lowered.

 

[Geedo61]

Do you think the EPL and Forest were not in communication in this period?
Genuine question, as maybe they were not, if the findings here are a presentation of documentary evidence i.e. emails, minutes, phone conversations etc.

I guess 28 days to sell BJ would be a tough ask.

I have no idea - it reads that there was a submission and a response.
I guess this was the same for all 20 clubs (or maybe just 14) - not just us.
Neither party are blameless in this - but only one of is suffering

 

[radfordinlondon]

Reality is that we didn't try to - we didn't think we needed to.
We appear to have been misled in regard to our COVID & Promotion Bonus exemptions. This is £30m that suddenly had to be accounted for, which we thought was exempt - even Keiron Maguire assumed/thought this to be true.
This £30m is actually more important than the selling of BJ as this would have bought us near to the threshold, without selling BJ.
If you remember the BJ money was to be used for financing this summers spend on Sangare, Murillo etc.
When the EPL informed us that we had to include the COVID/promotion bonus's in our accounts - that is what has f**ked us up - and will probably do so this year as well.

the promotion bonus was because we over estimated where we would finish. this is our mistake. the covid money is less clear but I do think we look absolute muppets for not checking and confirming it. having said that, the rules for the covid money seem about as fair as the spending cap.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Or better still EM gifting us some shares in his other holdings that was precisely where I was coming from. When you think about it Man U have this massive turnover but also a massive debt which doesn’t seem to be taken into account which suggests you could build up debt acquiring other business interests to boost revenue I’m not clever enough from a business point of view to think that one through to their but as a concept seems like a goer

that's exactly what the glazers did. bought manure with lashings and lashings of other people's money, I.e. debt.

 

[Polly 433]

that's exactly what the glazers did. bought manure with lashings and lashings of other people's money, I.e. debt.

Forest overspend by 34m. Man Utd in debt to tune of 3/4Bn. Guess who gets penalised for profit and sustainability. Seems fair.

 

[seasider red]

Forest overspend by 34m. Man Utd in debt to tune of 3/4Bn. Guess who gets penalised for profit and sustainability. Seems fair.

That's exactly the point it looks on the face of it as if building up debt to expand & diversify your business is OK

 

[BlackGold]

The Q+A from the beeb is quite interesting.

No doubt, some folk's screens will be covered in tea and crumpets, owing to white-hot outrage, and accuse the BBC of being boot-licking sycophants/woke/libtards etc etc:

"Willy-nilly spending has its downsides," (bbc fella muses over an 150m spend for a single player)...

"Why its a constant outrage that Manchester City have not been charged..."

Mainoo called up for England & reaction to Forest points deduction

Latest football news, including reaction to Nottingham Forest's points deduction and build-up to the women's Champions League.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[splitty62]

I disagree with the comment in the Athletic (was it?)
We have been found guilty for 2022/2023. BJ played in the 2023/2024 season against Sheffield Utd - we got no sporting advantage in the period we have been found guilty for due to him playing in August

I thought that also, as the 23.24 season isn’t being assessed here. Assessed period is up to end of June 23

 

[splitty62]

The 96m is the 3 year rolling total.
You have to take whatever we lost in year 1 off - probably £13m as that was the limit and replace with the 12m-17m projected - so in effect we remain around 96m against the 83m allowed.

I haven’t studied the report but does the project loss of 12-17m for this season come from the club who are standing by the fact the the sale of BJ was in last years account still. ? And if we admit that it doesn’t count to last years then it still needs to be moved to 23.24 accounts?

 

[in_the_top_one]

I thought that also, as the 23.24 season isn’t being assessed here. Assessed period is up to end of June 23

Indeed. But they criticised us for not rectifying the overspend as soon as possible. Indeed, the PL themselves said it would have been a mitigating factor if we had only overshot by a short amount of time. Us playing him months after he should have been sold has pissed them off and shown we weren't at all bothered about getting our house in order ASAP. I don't agree with that insofar as we missed the deadline and the window is the window, but playing him in the new season looks like taking the piss.

 

[Lienking]

I haven’t studied the report but does the project loss of 12-17m for this season come from the club who are standing by the fact the the sale of BJ was in last years account still. ? And if we admit that it doesn’t count to last years then it still needs to be moved to 23.24 accounts?

The BJ money was an attempt at a mitigating factor, but I can't see that the money was ever in the 2022/23 accounts. I worked as an accountant for 40 years, and the auditors always checked a random sample of invoices, delivery notes etc from the last day of one financial year , and the first day of the next to ensure that the cut off was correct. As I've said before , there may be possibilities of creating income (rather than work-in-progress) for massive projects over several years (building ships or nuclear power stations etc), but the simple sale of a footballer over two months AFTER the end of the financial year hardly falls into that category.

 

[Lienking]

,Yes it does.

We lost 15m in year 1 of the cycle, and 46m in year 2.

We then lost 34.5m in year 3.

From what I can see, we were knocked back on 10m of Covid claims and 20m of Promotion bonuses.

That means we have lost 81m in the first years of the current cycle - and we will have permitted losses of 81m for the 3 years

If your losses are correct, we didn't actually breach the £35 m loss target for 2022/23 . The problem seems to be due to the cumulative three year loss, mainly stemming from our promotion year bonuses. £20 million seems to be an awful lot to pay out in promotion bonuses. Probably over 10% of our income needed for the promotion year.

 

[radfordinlondon]

just spoke with a friend who says the greeks reporting we will be appealing. plenty of greeks piling into maranakis pointing out that you cant blow up bakeries in the uk.

 

[Marco Polo]

Em

just spoke with a friend who says the greeks reporting we will be appealing. plenty of greeks piling into maranakis pointing out that you cant blow up bakeries in the uk.

Embarrassing.

The rules aren’t fair but you can’t just ignore them then get cross that we’ve been docked points.

 

[Geedo61]

Em

Embarrassing.

The rules aren’t fair but you can’t just ignore them then get cross that we’ve been docked points.

Hopefully someone talks him round - we need to keep our heads down and take it on the chin.
We don’t need to become public enemy no. 1 - we need to concentrate on winning 4 football matches

 

[mao tse tung]

Thats how I read it as well.
The £30m knock-back for COVID and bonus's is what has done us - not the sale of BJ
I don't understand how the EPL can knockback our accounts/costs for the EFL promotion year?
Isn't this the game Leicester are playing in reverse?

Yes

 

[mao tse tung]

of course, its 81m for years 1+2,

Coupled to the upper projections, we'll be around 98m.

So maybe a couple of lowish sales might see us over the line.

Get to work, Ross!

Surely the projected losses must have excluded the sale of BJ; there is surely no way we have sold two players for 72m and still made a loss

 

[Marco Polo]

I wouldn’t put it past us

 

[chandos9]

just spoke with a friend who says the greeks reporting we will be appealing. plenty of greeks piling into maranakis pointing out that you cant blow up bakeries in the uk.

Can. Greggs is toast.