👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread | Page 48 | Vital Football

👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread

Spursex said:
Got to disagree with your last sentence; many of us who go have seen the performances and not got carried away, if anything that happens more here than at the stadium! It will not be an abject failure by any stretch of the imagination for those of us who have witnessed the inconsistencies in our performances - even in the games we've won!

I predicted we'd end up come the end of the season with 66 points, I think many others here got carried away, I don't blame them, but do think that many have just got carried way and Saturday was a big drop-down to earth for them; it just wasn't for me!
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Exactly, the season is played out over 38 games. There's a tendency on here to throw the baby out with the bath water whenever we lose (or win unconvincingly), but we are still in our infancy.

If Chelsea can be patient with Poch, I think Ange deserves at least a bit of a chance to rebuild.
 
None of the above explains to me why we looked leggy and got run off the park by Fulham. I do get some of the other points, especially the VDV dependence.

Ange's job is to get his players physically and mentally ready for these PL games. To me, he seemed to do neither and then couldn't even change it during the match. This moment is lower than crashing out of the Carabao earlier in the season when he made 8 changes.

I guess it is all about what happens next. If he continues with the definition of insanity, then we will underachieve this season.
 
Spur1882 said:
So, at the beginning of the season many people and pundits were predicting us to get relegated or be in a relegation scrap...............and now people are calling 6th position a failure??? 16 years since we last won a trophy, I get it, but gee we're an impatient mob of supporters. I would have taken 6th at the beginning of the season, if that meant being back in Europe and us playing exciting football. Ange teams tend to kick on in his second season of tenure, but no.....let's get rid at end of the season and jump aboard the manager merry-go-round again! I will judge him at the end of next season. This club needs stability above all things - 10 managers in last 16 years. The right people have come in for recruiting and we can see a shift happening. We wanted a front foot playing manager and the difference in game style compared to last 3 seasons is chalk and cheese. Perspective is needed here. Fulham have beaten Man U, Arsenal, and just lost to Liverpool 4-3 at Anfield. It was always going to be a tough game at Craven Cottage. Every player was not switched on for the game. It was ugly to watch, but even the best teams have these types of games by their standards. It wasn't the first, and it won't be the last (for now). The average age of our squad is 25.3 years. Look at the age of some of our first team players
Brennan Johnson 22
Dejan Kulusevski 23
Manor Solomon 24
Pape Matar Sarr 21
Pedro Porro 24
Destiny Udogie 21
Radu Dragusin 22
Mickey van de Ven 22
Christian Romero 25
These 'kids' are still in the infancy of becoming very good players, some are in their first season in the PL. Lets all show some calm and let these players develop. With a few more additions to strengthen some positions and allow the squad to rotate, I can see us next season kicking some 'Arse', so to speak!
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A sensible voice of reason. Thank you 1882.
I hated our performance on Saturday just as much as I was delighted with our performance against Villa. I expected ups and down this season but still think we are good enough to achieve the 4th spot I’ve been predicting since early season. I will judge Ange when he has got HIS squad in place playing his style of football. If he fails then he isn’t for us but I believe he will succeed. Keep the belief chaps.
 
muttley said:
None of the above explains to me why we looked leggy and got run off the park by Fulham. I do get some of the other points, especially the VDV dependence.

Ange's job is to get his players physically and mentally ready for these PL games. To me, he seemed to do neither and then couldn't even change it during the match. This moment is lower than crashing out of the Carabao earlier in the season when he made 8 changes.

I guess it is all about what happens next. If he continues with the definition of insanity, then we will underachieve this season.
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Is he flogging them in training still?

Given there is 10 games to go in a season after the winter World Cup/extended season, that seems pretty silly.

I've no faith he will change, the system relying on one player in VDV is a system that won't ever work over the course of a season.

Not finishing in the CL spots now is a failure, targets change from the start of the season.
 
steveperryman said:
We were full strength Niall. We did turn up for the game but then switched off for the entire second half once again.

I'm not expecting Rome, nobody's expecting that tbf. What we need to see is progression & i'm afraid to say we've not seen much of that in recent weeks.

We won well at Villa, took our chances & really took the battle to them. Can anybody hand on heart say we did that against Fulham? We were awful, lazy even. We surrendered the game without as much as a fight.

For me to change my tune Ange & his players are going to have to haul ass & prove they're willing to fight for the cause, cos i'm just not seeing it at the moment.
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Hi SP
I totally take and agree with your point re 'The Fulham' game as, I said 'no excuses', and that our midfield didn't turn up.
However, what I won't accept is the generalised criticism levelled at us when actually we're playing pretty decent football.
We're in the top 6 for goals scored, and actually higher in goals, scored from open play.
Our possession stats are right up among the best.
Yup a DODGEY goal by Man C put us out of the FA Cup, and we were poor in that game.
We lost the Carabo Cup on pens playing a weakened team.
I don't accept that we played great football under either Conte or Mourinho, but there were flashes of what we could be.
We're still currently in the midst of a rebuild, with many on these very pages putting us at best 8th.
But we're within reach of top 4.
Given where we've come from, and where we need to go, I think we're doing OK, yup still work to be done.
I don't think it is, as you've said on many Occasions SP 'Kamikaze' football, for me it's, attacking, front foot, possession based football, with goals, spread throughout the team.
Yes there are time when I say, bring on such and such or take so and so off, or we need to cram the midfield now to close the game off, I do think we're guilty of losing the first goal, at times which makes us chase the game.
In short I (among many) wanted football in a 'swashbuckling way' win, lose, or draw, and bar the FA Cup game and last Saturday, we've largely got it...
I've said we won't see improvement until mid April, let's, see where, we end up, I still say 4/5th.
 
To me it is just more of the same. Our annual EPL season arc:

-We surprise everyone at some point during the season and are considered world beaters and contenders. Then.....

WHAM

-Adversity hits and we swan dive from 30,000 feet....back to pretender status.

-We crash out of every tourney's usually embarrassingly so.

-In the end we settle into our status as an 'almost' team but are really never taken seriously to take that next step.

This team, this club, has taken many positive steps and are hopefully beginning to change our annual story detailed above.

Is AP the guy....I don't know. One thing is certain....next year he will be judged, and there will be no excuses.

Do we have the right players....some yeah, many no, and of course our depth is non existent.

I am a realist at heart, and accepting the rebuild pain...like some here predicted that we would end up around 6th-8th, probably closer to 8th. They say the table doesn't lie....so guess we are doing better than expected for now.

I will end by saying....I still see a terribly inconsistent team that wilts alarmingly under pressure from any team and lacks leadership on and off the pitch who stubbornly refuse to adapt and dictate matches.

AP still has a lot of work to do....
 
Considering where we were this time last season, I never expected us to have a good season at all. If anything, I think Ange is suffering at times like this because the team did so well, so early.

I think I predicted we would finished 6th before the season started and I've not really changed on that stance. 5th is doable though.

Unfortunately I think we've got a few players who have completely lost form at a time when we really needed them - Biss, Bents, Madds and Kulu - and we have a few others with weird form quirks like Bren performs better as a sub, Son runs hot and cold at the moment, and Pedro Porro's passing has gone a bit off.
 
Spursex said:
!I predicted we'd end up come the end of the season with 66 points, I think many others here got carried away, I don't blame them, but do think that many have just got carried way and Saturday was a big drop-down to earth for them; it just wasn't for me!
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After twelve games I was predicting 22 wins, eight draws and eight defeats for 74 points and probable third place. That seemed entirely possible at the time, but was probably somewhat over optimistic, given that our early season fixture list was somewhat friendly.

Not helped by the mid season injury difficulties, and enforced absentees, we are now looking at an entirely different scenario, and have already used up seven of the projected defeats with a number of tough fixtures to come. Unfortunately we continue to squander points in fixtures where we should reasonably expect to fare better.

I'm still punting for us to match the 21/22 outcome of 71 points for fourth place, but it will be a tough ask now. The final ten games of the season will serve as a genuine guideline of exactly where we are at.
 
Yonks ago we were a buying club of top players .....we set the stall for English Clubs when we bought Ardiles and Ricky Villa, then the likes of Gaza and Lineker to name but a few -then we lost our way and started selling the great players at the wrong time e.g Modric Berbatov Carrick to name but a few ...we now have a core of young players some of who will grow into class acts....will we buy to compliment or sell them off....?
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
Yonks ago we were a buying club of top players .....we set the stall for English Clubs when we bought Ardiles and Ricky Villa, then the likes of Gaza and Lineker to name but a few -then we lost our way and started selling the great players at the wrong time e.g Modric Berbatov Carrick to name but a few ...we now have a core of young players some of who will grow into class acts....will we buy to compliment or sell them off....?
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The Club is clearly in a sound financial position, and with a return to Europe this will be strengthened further next season. I've generally gained an impression over the last year or two that Levy is prepared to invest in the team like never before, in order to firmly establish us as one of the leading Clubs in Europe, fulfilling a lifetime ambition for him. Consequently I'm expecting to see more significant signings over the next season or two, providing that we continue an upward trajectory, and can attract some of the best. Selling our better or most promising players will definitely not be on the agenda.
 
Niall D said:
Hi SP
I totally take and agree with your point re 'The Fulham' game as, I said 'no excuses', and that our midfield didn't turn up.
However, what I won't accept is the generalised criticism levelled at us when actually we're playing pretty decent football.
We're in the top 6 for goals scored, and actually higher in goals, scored from open play.
Our possession stats are right up among the best.
Yup a DODGEY goal by Man C put us out of the FA Cup, and we were poor in that game.
We lost the Carabo Cup on pens playing a weakened team.
I don't accept that we played great football under either Conte or Mourinho, but there were flashes of what we could be.
We're still currently in the midst of a rebuild, with many on these very pages putting us at best 8th.
But we're within reach of top 4.
Given where we've come from, and where we need to go, I think we're doing OK, yup still work to be done.
I don't think it is, as you've said on many Occasions SP 'Kamikaze' football, for me it's, attacking, front foot, possession based football, with goals, spread throughout the team.
Yes there are time when I say, bring on such and such or take so and so off, or we need to cram the midfield now to close the game off, I do think we're guilty of losing the first goal, at times which makes us chase the game.
In short I (among many) wanted football in a 'swashbuckling way' win, lose, or draw, and bar the FA Cup game and last Saturday, we've largely got it...
I've said we won't see improvement until mid April, let's, see where, we end up, I still say 4/5th.
Click to expand...
Our defensive displays are shocking for a top tier PL outfit. I dunno who sets our stall out in that department but they ought to be sacked. If as Ex says we're relying on one man, we're well & truly stuffed.

I hate losing Niall, more than you could ever imagine but to lose with nothing more than a whimper is unforgivable. There were so many things wrong with the display that i wouldn't even know where to begin. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with losing if you give your all, fat chance of this lot ever doing that.

Fair play, some of the lads are young & will blow hot & cold but i'm looking at our experienced players to help pull them through & for much of the game they were the problem. If i had been part of that team i would've been livid with them. They have to take ownership of their mistakes & learn from them. I expect that from the kids. I'm talking solid pros at international level here. It's not good enough. They ought to be leading by example.

I haven't named names & i'll refuse to do so. There are 3 players however who really need to pull their socks up. These wishy-washy performances they've been putting in simply won't cut it. They should be setting a better example to the youngsters who need proper leadership & that was lacking at every single level.
 
👆Re above SP I've no issue with your statement, with reference to Saturdays game, there's no excuse we were crap, however there have been quite, a few, games, where we've given our all and won the game.
I do agree that our defence does lack something, for me it's, actually that midfielder dropping back into a 3 when the LB and RB push forward, but mostly (IMO) it's defending set pieces, although that was not the issue on Saturday past.
However I need to ask, are we as bad a watch as the team who went out of the CL with a whimper and drew against Southampton around this time last year, are we? Really?
 
Niall D said:
👆Re above SP I've no issue with your statement, with reference to Saturdays game, there's no excuse we were crap, however there have been quite, a few, games, where we've given our all and won the game.
I do agree that our defence does lack something, for me it's, actually that midfielder dropping back into a 3 when the LB and RB push forward, but mostly (IMO) it's defending set pieces, although that was not the issue on Saturday past.
However I need to ask, are we as bad a watch as the team who went out of the CL with a whimper and drew against Southampton around this time last year, are we? Really?
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Our defence lacks a defence. Smart people figured out a very long time ago that you need to put a row of 4 (or 5) from one side of the pitch to the other. Ideally you have another player (or two) protecting the ones in front of the ones in front of the goal. The basic principle is that you make it hard for the opposition to get near your goal. Then they can't score goals.

Our current manager knows different.
 
muttley said:
Our defence lacks a defence. Smart people figured out a very long time ago that you need to put a row of 4 (or 5) from one side of the pitch to the other. Ideally you have another player (or two) protecting the ones in front of the ones in front of the goal. The basic principle is that you make it hard for the opposition to get near your goal. Then they can't score goals.

Our current manager knows different.
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Looks like you want Antonio back with that set up 😭🤯🤯
 
I am certainly not one who thinks Ange's job is on the line; that would be ridiculous with what he has achieved so far. But it cannot absolve him from criticism if he lets this position slip with what he now has at his disposal. One would hope that his singular focus or lessons learned, will pay off next season and he most certainly must be given the chance to see it through.
 
steveperryman said:
Our defensive displays are shocking for a top tier PL outfit. I dunno who sets our stall out in that department but they ought to be sacked. If as Ex says we're relying on one man, we're well & truly stuffed.

I hate losing Niall, more than you could ever imagine but to lose with nothing more than a whimper is unforgivable. There were so many things wrong with the display that i wouldn't even know where to begin. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with losing if you give your all, fat chance of this lot ever doing that.

Fair play, some of the lads are young & will blow hot & cold but i'm looking at our experienced players to help pull them through & for much of the game they were the problem. If i had been part of that team i would've been livid with them. They have to take ownership of their mistakes & learn from them. I expect that from the kids. I'm talking solid pros at international level here. It's not good enough. They ought to be leading by example.

I haven't named names & i'll refuse to do so. There are 3 players however who really need to pull their socks up. These wishy-washy performances they've been putting in simply won't cut it. They should be setting a better example to the youngsters who need proper leadership & that was lacking at every single level.
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As always, in a system that relies on a rapid interchange of players in key positions during a game to cover the defensive spaces, and one key player missing undermines the system - that is a given. It's the 101 of a high press /basic weakness of this type of play

The real problem was Dragu who has never ever played in a high line high press system until now, just wasn't good enough, all three goals you could say were in part his fault.

Romero, as we already know, looks muted on his own, that said, he did his part well and looked solid and was probably the one player on the pitch who maintained his composure and standard when others failed to play to their normal level.

You could almost feel Ange's dilemma as Dragu showed his football intelligence of this system to be wanting - should he undermine his confidence and hook him off, leave him on and hope he played his way into the game, play more defensively and try and limit the damage?

Dragu has a less that spectacular start, and so I don't want to be too hard on him, as it's early days, but he really did have a baptism of fire. Fulham knew exactly what to do with him and it worked.

He'll learn from this and if VDV is now going to be out longer than first expected, he'll need to learn fast as he will be targetted by all opposing coaches target from now on.

I don't see the result or what led to this poor performance as being an excuse to beat up on Ange, as I said, to me in this case, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't - this is all and was another step in his and the teams learning curve.

A deeper squad (which is coming) and these surprise results will be less and less surprising as the squad progresses.
 
May 19th 5-53pm.
Spurs are 2-0 up at Sheffield United & currently sitting in 4th place by one goal on GD. All other games finished so we have just got to hold onto the two goal lead. Five mins left of ET, if we concede a goal we finish 5th. If we draw we finish 6th & if we lose we finish 7th.
Here's my concern, I have zero confidence that Ange wouldn't still expect everyone to attack, leave a big hole in midfield, leave our back four exposed to thru/long balls & cost us 4th or worse.

I just want better game management from the guy. I want him to know how the opposition are going to play & set up accordingly - especially in big games. It doesn't mean (and I don't want it to) we can't have front foot football. It just means I want him to know it's a strength, not a weakness to be able to suss your opponent. Let's face it everyone does it to us.
 
total spurs said:
May 19th 5-53pm.
Spurs are 2-0 up at Sheffield United & currently sitting in 4th place by one goal on GD. All other games finished so we have just got to hold onto the two goal lead. Five mins left of ET, if we concede a goal we finish 5th. If we draw we finish 6th & if we lose we finish 7th.
Here's my concern, I have zero confidence that Ange wouldn't still expect everyone to attack, leave a big hole in midfield, leave our back four exposed to thru/long balls & cost us 4th or worse.

I just want better game management from the guy. I want him to know how the opposition are going to play & set up accordingly - especially in big games. It doesn't mean (and I don't want it to) we can't have front foot football. It just means I want him to know it's a strength, not a weakness to be able to suss your opponent. Let's face it everyone does it to us.
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From day 1, when I spent sometime posting on his tactical play, I said this was just as likely to result in attractive football with us scoring more than the opposition or we'd come undone in some games if we didn't adapt..

As his system if play is played by better players and or players who have adapted better, I think we'll see less bad surprises. But only time will tell.

But I still see no reason to doubt that his approach isn't yet a winning one.

Next season and after the summer business, I'd bet our future will look much clearer.
 
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