👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread | Page 47 | Vital Football

👨🏼‍💼 Ange Postecoglou - Manager Thread

So I'm late to this week as I was away and could only watch the game in full today, some observations:

If I was doing an assessment of how to counter our play, I'd work out you can basically take two approaches to beat us:

1) Deep low block and play hard and fast on counter and believe you can take your chances: that is what Wolves did to us.

2) Use long balls all/through passes out to where the space the backs would normally occupy. As we play with high inverted backs these area's were wide open - the higher we push, the more we squeeze the more we are reliant on fast covering and recovery, which is what VDV would normally give us, but he wasn't playing. Instead, Dragu was thrust in, and in three key moments, didn't do great, it showed he still has much to do to fit in to Ange's system of play.

Missing one important player through injury should not be an insurmountable obstacle — but we are far better team when VDV plays. The stats tell us we have won 12 of the 18 Premier League games he has started this season and lost just twice (one of which he was forced off with injury before half-time), averaging 2.2 points per game. Without him, including this latest defeat, our record is four wins, one draw and four defeats — 1.3 points per game.

That is how critical he's been to Ange's tactic of playing a (at times) mad high line. But he's committed to it and wants everyone to grasp it.

His speed allows us to play much further forward and he’s comfortable moving across to play in wide areas when Udogie pushes upfield. He wasn't there to do that on Saturday.

Dragu endured a very difficult first start : He was caught out by Rodrigo Muniz for Fulham’s first goal and failed to stop Castagne’s cross for Fulham’s second scored by Lukic. For their third, Dragu was left in a heap as Muniz snaffled home a loose ball, whilst he belatedly attempted to make a tackle. Had Muniz not scored, Dragu would surely have given away a penalty for this desperate challenge.

Of course, it wasn't all his fault, as so many looked below par, but it's key moments like these which handed Fulham the ascendancy and ultimately the win. It reminds all of how we'll need better depth and quality in key area's as we progress (which we will).

I'd go as far to say now he is our single most influential critically necessary player in Ange's system and without him, we looked all at sea. Ange rightly put his faith in his replacement but arguably he didn't rise to the opportunity, but he'd have learned from it.

Fulham had our measure and we simply didn't adjust, or couldn't - they knew what to expect, and had the right game plan to beat us, they'd done their homework well and knew we weren't the same team without him.

With VDV back in for our upcoming games, we'll once again see how his intelligence, speed, and skills work, and we'll see a different game.

All of you should know by now that given the way we play, results like this are possible, as hurtful as it is, these are still very early days.

Personally, I think some perspective is in order, we've come a long way in a very short period of time, and unquestionably have much, much more to do.

I've long predicted we'd finish 5th/6th and if we do I'd see this as a magnificent start; Ange knows better than most how many more windows and how many more outgoings and incomings he's got to achieve to get the depth he wants.

It's a cliché, but I can't find any other way that to say to all my Spurs mates who've taken this defeat so hard; he needs time and backing.

I'm convinced, whether by luck or judgement, he's the best thing to happen to us since Poch transformed us all that time ago, and he will too. And this time, we're not building a stadium, we're exploiting one that's now doing what it was designed to do: give us the funds to compete with the biggest and the best.

So hard as it is, let's just have some perspective of where we now are. It will make this loss and the difficult run in we have, much easier to grasp and still retain our positivity about what Ange can and (will, in my mind) deliver.

He said it better than I can, so far, we've made 4 steps forward and made one back. But unquestionably, we've made huge strides forward.
as much as I prefer watching us this season compared to recent past, I just don't see our 'One way approach' bearing fruit with cups or league. Each season might be a fun roller coaster ride, some exciting highs and disappointing lows, but IMO ultimately with no tangible success.
As it stands every team knows how we are going to play irrespective of how the match starts or develops. It appears to me Ange doesn't care about opposition styles cos we are doing it our way. Success, even limited is then going to depend on outscoring then and/or luck. Exciting but.....
Lastly, at the beginning of the season I would have said if say we finish 4/5/6, on paper that's a decent season given where we were.
But IMO given where we are now, if we finish below 5th that will mean we've fecked up big time.
At the end of the day if we are going to be a 5 /6/ 7/8 team with the odd 1/4 or semi final thrown in. I'd rather watch us today than recent seasons. But if we are going for consistently finishing too four and picking up a cup of two, then we need Ange to show that he can be proactive in selection, formation & tactics together with a quicker reaction when something clearly isn't working.
I don't want to keep changing managers so I hope he can change. We have a decent squad and we are potentially on the cusp of better times, we don't want to feck this up.
 
Ex came up with a pretty good analysis before I could get round to watching it again so it saved me the heartache of sitting through it again!
It was and is simple for me. Even if you don't rewatch it to see if I am right (and the immodest part of me, is more, how I'm right, not if! LOL!) ..

Just recall how many times VDV has saved our arses with an incredible run back/block/tackle, all of which in some games either got us over the line/ or was a turning point in a game.

His speed, his awareness, and his timing makes up for a suicidal, at times poor back line press and interchange of passing. Of course, it's a tactic to draw in the oppositions' midfield, and against Fulham we had neither his pace to get us off the hook, or his intelligence, and our passing was as poor as I've seen it this season.

I'm afraid, without him, our effectiveness as a unit is seriously compromised. Neither Porro or Destiny could read what they were doing and so, we had one effective defender - Romero, but on his own, it was all a mess.

It's all sortable, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a huge improvement in our next game, where we'll take our anger out on Luton and that will nicely set us up for Spam...

It's early early days chaps, this season was always going to be a roller coaster and why so many are down about it is the real mystery to me.

Onwards and Upwards we will go.
 
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It was and is simple for me. Even if you don't rewatch it to see if I am right (and the immodest part of me, is more, how I'm right, not if! LOL!) ..

Just recall how many times VDV has saved our arses with an incredible run back/block/tackle, all of which in some games either got us over the line/ or was a turning point in a game.

His speed, his awareness and his timing makes up for a suicidal, at times back line press and interchange of passing. Of course it's a tactic to draw in the oppositions' midfield, and against Fulham we had neither his pace to get us off the hook, or his intelligence, and our passing was as poor as I've seen it this season.

I'm afraid, without him, our effectiveness as a unit is seriously compromised. Neither Porro or Destiny could read what they were doing and so, we had one effective defender - Romero, but on his own, it was all a mess.

It's all sortable, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a huge improvement in our next game, where we'll take our anger out on Luton and that will nicely set us up for Spam...

It's early early days chaps, this season was always going to be a roller coaster and why so many are down about it is the real mystery to me.

Onwards and Upwards we will go.
Surely if the full backs are pushing up and in field the holding midfielder should sit in to allow the centre backs to go a bit wider if necessary?
 
Surely if the full backs are pushing up and in field the holding midfielder should sit in to allow the centre backs to go a bit wider if necessary?
you'd have thought so, but the CB's and the DM'er have to be alert to the spaces the backs leave and respond according, but our press in the middle was very poor and sadly Dragu was just not good enough.
 
It was and is simple for me. Even if you don't rewatch it to see if I am right (and the immodest part of me, is more, how I'm right, not if! LOL!) ..

Just recall how many times VDV has saved our arses with an incredible run back/block/tackle, all of which in some games either got us over the line/ or was a turning point in a game.

His speed, his awareness and his timing makes up for a suicidal, at times back line press and interchange of passing. Of course it's a tactic to draw in the oppositions' midfield, and against Fulham we had neither his pace to get us off the hook, or his intelligence, and our passing was as poor as I've seen it this season.

I'm afraid, without him, our effectiveness as a unit is seriously compromised. Neither Porro or Destiny could read what they were doing and so, we had one effective defender - Romero, but on his own, it was all a mess.

It's all sortable, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a huge improvement in our next game, where we'll take our anger out on Luton and that will nicely set us up for Spam...

It's early early days chaps, this season was always going to be a roller coaster and why so many are down about it is the real mystery to me.

Onwards and Upwards we will go.
for me and many fans I know it's:

For whatever reason Spurs put in far too many lackadaisical performances.

Ange doesn't appear to know what to do sub wise...or does it too late

There's no flexibility or accounting for the opposition tactics & we are not, and maybe never will be so good we can overcome anything.

Still no on field leader.

But mostly (this season) Ange doesn't seem to care where we finish as long as he is able to play the same way each game. He is either devoid of tactical nous or too arrogant to believe all good things will come by doing it his way.

I don't know anyone that wants him gone....But that will change if we slip down to 6th or below just Cos he is too stubborn to see the opportunity for next season that we have in our hands this season.
 
for me and many fans I know it's:

For whatever reason Spurs put in far too many lackadaisical performances.

Ange doesn't appear to know what to do sub wise...or does it too late

There's no flexibility or accounting for the opposition tactics & we are not, and maybe never will be so good we can overcome anything.

Still no on field leader.

But mostly (this season) Ange doesn't seem to care where we finish as long as he is able to play the same way each game. He is either devoid of tactical nous or too arrogant to believe all good things will come by doing it his way.

I don't know anyone that wants him gone....But that will change if we slip down to 6th or below just Cos he is too stubborn to see the opportunity for next season that we have in our hands this season.
I do.

I'd give him the season & then bring somebody more reliable in. If there's one thing I've picked up in life, it's that change is inevitable. His inflexibility will be both his & our undoing.
 
At start of season most would have predicted 6th 7th 8th so what is the issue... as far as I am concerned he has exceeded all expectations so my view is to take whatever this year brings and give him next year to judge him on...
For me the issue is IF from where we are now we end up 6/7/8 that would be a failure.
At the beginning of the season 6/7/8 with decent football I think would have been acceptable by most for the first season, but to tail of now & be ok about it...nah, not acceptable.
 
For me the issue is IF from where we are now we end up 6/7/8 that would be a failure.
At the beginning of the season 6/7/8 with decent football I think would have been acceptable by most for the first season, but to tail of now & be ok about it...nah, not acceptable.
What good football? We only turn up when we feel like it.

People need to understand. It's not the fact that we lost, it's the manner in which we lost that hurts the most.
 
Apparently its a year ago today than Antonio went on his rant.
I dunno if this is true. Statto will check.
Ange and the team have completely revamped the squad.
From top to toe.
Are we any better off today?

Cup exit and league Position and football wise I would say no.
We are as shit then as we are now.

But by golly we have a team that looks like it has a future together. IMHO.

They'll mess up. Next season as well most likely. But with the correct backing and encouragement we might surprise even ourselves.
 
At start of season most would have predicted 6th 7th 8th so what is the issue... as far as I am concerned he has exceeded all expectations so my view is to take whatever this year brings and give him next year to judge him on...
There are a few believers Greavsie and, Spex 💯
Rome, wasn't built in a day, and if he isn't the right guy, at least we're on the right path.
SP I accept that the manner in which we lost on Saturday is unacceptable, however what I don't accept is the almost constant 'nay saying by' quite a few on these pages.
We beat Villa 4-0 away from home and there were still those baying for blood.
No we weren't good enough 'last Saturday' but the, week before we were pretty fekin decent.
We've scored quite a few, goals mostly from open play, Refs have given us very little.
Our shot ratios and possession ratios are well up on last season, yes there is still work to do, but feck we're, a damn site better watch than the last two seasons.
 
There are a few believers Greavsie and, Spex 💯
Rome, wasn't built in a day, and if he isn't the right guy, at least we're on the right path.
SP I accept that the manner in which we lost on Saturday is unacceptable, however what I don't accept is the almost constant 'nay saying by' quite a few on these pages.
We beat Villa 4-0 away from home and there were still those baying for blood.
No we weren't good enough 'last Saturday' but the, week before we were pretty fekin decent.
We've scored quite a few, goals mostly from open play, Refs have given us very little.
Our shot ratios and possession ratios are well up on last season, yes there is still work to do, but feck we're, a damn site better watch than the last two seasons.
We were full strength Niall. We did turn up for the game but then switched off for the entire second half once again.

I'm not expecting Rome, nobody's expecting that tbf. What we need to see is progression & i'm afraid to say we've not seen much of that in recent weeks.

We won well at Villa, took our chances & really took the battle to them. Can anybody hand on heart say we did that against Fulham? We were awful, lazy even. We surrendered the game without as much as a fight.

For me to change my tune Ange & his players are going to have to haul ass & prove they're willing to fight for the cause, cos i'm just not seeing it at the moment.
 
So, at the beginning of the season many people and pundits were predicting us to get relegated or be in a relegation scrap...............and now people are calling 6th position a failure??? 16 years since we last won a trophy, I get it, but gee we're an impatient mob of supporters. I would have taken 6th at the beginning of the season, if that meant being back in Europe and us playing exciting football. Ange teams tend to kick on in his second season of tenure, but no.....let's get rid at end of the season and jump aboard the manager merry-go-round again! I will judge him at the end of next season. This club needs stability above all things - 10 managers in last 16 years. The right people have come in for recruiting and we can see a shift happening. We wanted a front foot playing manager and the difference in game style compared to last 3 seasons is chalk and cheese. Perspective is needed here. Fulham have beaten Man U, Arsenal, and just lost to Liverpool 4-3 at Anfield. It was always going to be a tough game at Craven Cottage. Every player was not switched on for the game. It was ugly to watch, but even the best teams have these types of games by their standards. It wasn't the first, and it won't be the last (for now). The average age of our squad is 25.3 years. Look at the age of some of our first team players
Brennan Johnson 22
Dejan Kulusevski 23
Manor Solomon 24
Pape Matar Sarr 21
Pedro Porro 24
Destiny Udogie 21
Radu Dragusin 22
Mickey van de Ven 22
Christian Romero 25
These 'kids' are still in the infancy of becoming very good players, some are in their first season in the PL. Lets all show some calm and let these players develop. With a few more additions to strengthen some positions and allow the squad to rotate, I can see us next season kicking some 'Arse', so to speak!
 
There are a few believers Greavsie and, Spex 💯
Rome, wasn't built in a day, and if he isn't the right guy, at least we're on the right path.
SP I accept that the manner in which we lost on Saturday is unacceptable, however what I don't accept is the almost constant 'nay saying by' quite a few on these pages.
We beat Villa 4-0 away from home and there were still those baying for blood.
No we weren't good enough 'last Saturday' but the, week before we were pretty fekin decent.
We've scored quite a few, goals mostly from open play, Refs have given us very little.
Our shot ratios and possession ratios are well up on last season, yes there is still work to do, but feck we're, a damn site better watch than the last two seasons.
Largely agree Niall, other than a qualification regarding the last sentence, and particularly to the 'last two seasons'. Two seasons ago, in the run in to the end of the season, Conte 'released the handbrake' so to speak, and we played some great football over the closing games of the season to edge Arsenal out of fourth place, and qualify for the CL. That to me is the benchmark, that took us to where THFC should be.

Nobody will ever know why Conte adopted a totally different philosophy from day one of the following season, but what happened in the 22/23 season both from a results and entertainment perspective should never be allowed to be viewed as 'where we have come from''.

Since qualifying in fourth place for the CL two years ago, the Club has spent huge money in the transfer market. whereby we have a far stronger squad than two years ago, whereby the players who were not considered good enough for our progression no lomger feature, other than occassional appearances as back up squad players.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the squad is young, and has plenty of scope for further development, hopefully we can develop them as quickly as Liverpool do, Irrespective players aged 23-24-25 should if they are good enough be able to perform at the highest level in the PL and European football, and certainly shouldn't be putting in the type of performance we saw against Fulham.

City, United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and ourselves are the big six in English football, whereby anything better than sixth will always represent a decent season, it's a tough league. We are on track, whereby any talk regarding the manager not being of the required standard is premature. With Chelsea however in a rather painful transition, this team should be plenty good enough for top five, anything less will be failure, and a real test lies ahead as to whether we can push on further.