Blue Cards

[Gary Onedaysoon]

The yellow card has that same effect though if it is applied correctly. How often is there a foul that everyone knows is a tactical foul yet only a free kick is given? If the refs gave that as a yellow then players would be on tight ropes for the rest of the game thus having the desired effect of cutting it out.

Plus, if this is introduced just imagine how bad those 10mins of football is going to be. Constant injuries. Constant slowing the game down. There's going to be more arguments about how the 10mins is counted than there is about the initial infringement.

It'll be a farce that adds another layer of complication for refs who are already struggling to understand and apply the rules as it is

That reasoning only really applies if the yellow card is issued fairly early in the game. Later in the game and players are quite happy to 'take one for the team' secure in the knowlege that they can easily see the game out or the manager subs them. It doesn't help the team who was on the receiving end of the infringement.

What the game would be like with 10-minute sin bins is just conjecture at this stage. You may well be right but we won't know until we try it. And that scenario you describe plays out every week in some matches in the PL anyway. Teams setting out from the first minute not to concede or later in the game pinching a goal and then killing the game as a spectacle.

Try it and if it doesn't work then scrap it. I can't see that there's anything to lose.

 

[muttley]

Personally, I think that even rugby has got it wrong. Our great Irish win in France last week was against 14 men for much of the match, which lessens the kudos of it. Whilst I understand the obvious need to take head shots out of the game, it smacks of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut....if you'll excuse the pun.

Subtle difference though. That rule was introduced on best intent for health and safety reasons. It wasn't like football where you have to change the substitution rule to nearest point because of time wasting and gamesmanship.

I do believe the rugby boys got it wrong though.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

And that's my point, we fans want to see full bloodied 11 v 11 games in football; there could easily be games where after a melee we may even be watching 9 v 9 - their meddling will kill is game as a spectacle, if it hasn't already.

Do you think that's a universal view in football though, Ex?

At any game that I've ever watched or attended in the past, whenever a player from the opposing team has been sent off, there's been great celebrations because it increases the chances of your own team winning.

I've never heard a fan say 'that's a shame, it's ruined the game as a spectacle'.

 

[muttley]

And that's my point, we fans want to see full bloodied 11 v 11 games in football; there could easily be games where after a melee we may even be watching 9 v 9 - their meddling will kill is game as a spectacle, if it hasn't already.

No, the managers and players will adapt quickly. There will be very few 9 vs 9's in my opinion. We just need to get on with the change and go through the pain barrier for a short period of time. It won't take long.

 

[Spursex]

Do you think that's a universal view in football though, Ex?

At any game that I've ever watched or attended in the past, whenever a player from the opposing team has been sent off, there's been great celebrations because it increases the chances of your own team winning.

I've never heard a fan say 'that's a shame, it's ruined the game as a spectacle'.

Probably not. But I often think it.

Moreften than not, the game as a spectacle is over when it happens. I do probably think that when I'm an uninvolved watcher, and obviously not when I'm there as a Spurs fan! (So, take your point!)

But the games' governance should be above those thoughts.

I just think this whole Blue card nonsense is just another example of weak leadership and poor execution of the games traditions.

 

[Spursex]

No, the managers and players will adapt quickly. There will be very few 9 vs 9's in my opinion. We just need to get on with the change and go through the pain barrier for a short period of time. It won't take long.

I still say, it's entirely unnecessary and will just cause endless debate/pointless arguments.

 

[Pompey Yid]

It has been said we want to see 11 v 11 yes that's fine...

So that is down to the players, but they know the demands by fans of wanting to see 11 v 11, means they can do anything they like!

The Refs have the same attitude or even have been ordered to, that is to keep it 11 v 11.

So 2 things here...
1 - Refs follow the Laws/Rules of the game.
2 - Players/coaches change their bloody attitudes in the game.

 

[Matic]

The rules don't need changing. The culture does.
I don't have any confidence in this rule change making the blind bit of difference. It won't stop Bruno diving, it won't stop Rodri committing tactical fouls and it won't stop Odegaard mouthing off.

The refs have lost respect because of extremely poor performances in this last year. People have lost all confidence in VAR because of the human error from, you guessed it, the referee in the room.

The refs need retraining. The rules need cleaning up. And VAR needs to be properly utilised. THEN the culture will start to improve. Everyone on here is pretty aligned when it comes to the current card system being actually enforced, so why not first make sure it is! Or introduce a small change, much like having to stay off the pitch for 30 seconds after going down. If someone gets a yellow, make them go off the pitch for 30 seconds too!

 

[Spursex]

The rules don't need changing. The culture does.
I don't have any confidence in this rule change making the blind bit of difference. It won't stop Bruno diving, it won't stop Rodri committing tactical fouls and it won't stop Odegaard mouthing off.

The refs have lost respect because of extremely poor performances in this last year. People have lost all confidence in VAR because of the human error from, you guessed it, the referee in the room.

The refs need retraining. The rules need cleaning up. And VAR needs to be properly utilised. THEN the culture will start to improve. Everyone on here is pretty aligned when it comes to the current card system being actually enforced, so why not first make sure it is! Or introduce a small change, much like having to stay off the pitch for 30 seconds after going down. If someone gets a yellow, make them go off the pitch for 30 seconds too!

bravo!

 

[Welshtel]

We need to instil into our players the need to be decent in their play and if blue cards reinforce this, then I'm all for it. But the way forward is for us not to commit fouls and dubious behaviour. There's nothing better than good play that's clever and industrious, which creates goals and gives courage and initiative to the other players. I prefer the option to give a blue card and keep a player out of the game for10 minutes rather than a sending off. Players often take little thought about taking a 'yellow for the team' and deliberately committing a foul. That's a cop out and a way to cover up being caught out by the other side. Good tactics often catch out a defence and taking the yellow for the team often stops the attack. Maybe more reds should be given out for that.

It will be interesting how players try and use this blue card system to their advantage because as always, players try to circumvent the rules.

I'm all in favour of trying out anew idea, let's see where it goes.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

No, the managers and players will adapt quickly. There will be very few 9 vs 9's in my opinion. We just need to get on with the change and go through the pain barrier for a short period of time. It won't take long.

That's how I would see it panning out.

I understand fans concerns about the spectacle of the game being dragged down for the duration of the sin bin but if the offending team does adopt those tactics they are effectively handing over the initiative to their opponents for that duration.

If that team offends multiple times during the game they will effectively be giving up any chance of winning. And if those sin bins convert into goals conceded and subsequent match losses, managers and players won't take long to change their behaviour.

 

[Pompey Yid]

Blue card = 10mins Sin Bin = even more time wasting, simples. COYS

 

[Spursex]

Inevitable: They must have been following the debate here!

Blue cards in football delayed after backlash spooks lawmakers​

Exclusive: Rather than announcing when the trial will take place in professional football, a decision has been kicked back to an AGM
Ben Rumsby 9 February 2024 • 12:11pm

• 

The blue card will be more serious than yellow but not as significant as red


The introduction of a blue card into football has been thrown into doubt amid a growing backlash against the move.
As revealed by Telegraph Sport, an announcement had been planned on Friday for the game’s first new card for more than half a century as part of sin-bin trials at professional level.
But following an extraordinary reaction to the news – including from within football’s corridors of power – those announcement plans have been blocked.
Unrest within the game was underlined on Thursday night by a statement from Fifa which confirmed the disclosure by the Telegraph that initial sin-bin trials would not include top-tier competitions.
The statement went on to say that the introduction of a blue card at any level would be discussed at the annual general meeting of the International Football Association Board (Ifab) next month.
Ifab, the game’s law-making body on which Fifa sits along with the four home associations, approved the first sin-bin trials at professional level at its annual business meeting in November.
The precise protocol those trials would follow had been due to be announced on Friday and the delay could now mean those are subject to further revision.
Fifa’s issuing of a statement on an Ifab matter also raises questions about which of the bodies is really in control of changes to the laws of the game.

‘Yellow cards just need to be applied right’​

On Friday Eddie Howe became the first Premier League manager to oppose the introduction of a blue card to football by warning it would “just add more confusion”.
The Newcastle United manager said: “I’m not a big fan to be honest; that’s what yellow cards are for. The current system works well; it just has to be applied right. Adding a blue card would just add more confusion in my opinion so I’m against it.”
Howe joined former Premier League stars Chris Sutton and Jamie O’Hara in voicing his opposition to the move.
Sutton posted on X: “Well done IFAB for complicating the game even more and prioritising a blue card over the outdated head injury protocol which doesn’t put players first…”
O’Hara, meanwhile, wrote: “The game has absolutely gone.”

 

[Spursex]

Inevitable: They must have been following the debate here!

Blue cards in football delayed after backlash spooks lawmakers​

Exclusive: Rather than announcing when the trial will take place in professional football, a decision has been kicked back to an AGM
Ben Rumsby 9 February 2024 • 12:11pm

• 

The blue card will be more serious than yellow but not as significant as red


The introduction of a blue card into football has been thrown into doubt amid a growing backlash against the move.
As revealed by Telegraph Sport, an announcement had been planned on Friday for the game’s first new card for more than half a century as part of sin-bin trials at professional level.
But following an extraordinary reaction to the news – including from within football’s corridors of power – those announcement plans have been blocked.
Unrest within the game was underlined on Thursday night by a statement from Fifa which confirmed the disclosure by the Telegraph that initial sin-bin trials would not include top-tier competitions.
The statement went on to say that the introduction of a blue card at any level would be discussed at the annual general meeting of the International Football Association Board (Ifab) next month.
Ifab, the game’s law-making body on which Fifa sits along with the four home associations, approved the first sin-bin trials at professional level at its annual business meeting in November.
The precise protocol those trials would follow had been due to be announced on Friday and the delay could now mean those are subject to further revision.
Fifa’s issuing of a statement on an Ifab matter also raises questions about which of the bodies is really in control of changes to the laws of the game.

‘Yellow cards just need to be applied right’​

On Friday Eddie Howe became the first Premier League manager to oppose the introduction of a blue card to football by warning it would “just add more confusion”.
The Newcastle United manager said: “I’m not a big fan to be honest; that’s what yellow cards are for. The current system works well; it just has to be applied right. Adding a blue card would just add more confusion in my opinion so I’m against it.”
Howe joined former Premier League stars Chris Sutton and Jamie O’Hara in voicing his opposition to the move.
Sutton posted on X: “Well done IFAB for complicating the game even more and prioritising a blue card over the outdated head injury protocol which doesn’t put players first…”
O’Hara, meanwhile, wrote: “The game has absolutely gone.”

Correction, I don't believe Eddie Howe was the First, Dyche and Ange have already made their thoughts about this lunacy very clear!

 

[meee93]

That reasoning only really applies if the yellow card is issued fairly early in the game. Later in the game and players are quite happy to 'take one for the team' secure in the knowlege that they can easily see the game out or the manager subs them. It doesn't help the team who was on the receiving end of the infringement.

What the game would be like with 10-minute sin bins is just conjecture at this stage. You may well be right but we won't know until we try it. And that scenario you describe plays out every week in some matches in the PL anyway. Teams setting out from the first minute not to concede or later in the game pinching a goal and then killing the game as a spectacle.

Try it and if it doesn't work then scrap it. I can't see that there's anything to lose.

It may well be conjecture, but what reason would we think that players wouldn't take advantage of the situation to waste time? It's trained into these players to do it.

I get the feeling that you want it coming from a place of frustration of the way things currently are. But if the yellow card is properly used it will fix most of these issues. Granted, if you had a clean game then you can be cynical in the last minute and get an advantage. But isnt that the same with red cards? Eg. Players happily hack a forward who is through on goal in the last minute. They don't really get any real difference as it usually takes time to make the most of the extra man. So the team that has been fouled doesn't see the advantage.

But the blue card won't fix anything until the yellow card issue is fixed anyway. As refs won't want to give anyone a blue card unless they have no choice, as that is how they currently 'manage' games. They will take the easy way out and will give a yellow instead of blue which will cause further arguments.

I'll give you an example from GAA. They introduced a black card for cynical play or pulling players to the ground for which you get sin binned and then automatically substituted. Refs just give a yellow instead of black unless they have no option. Nobody (players or fans) really knows what exactly is a black card instead of a yellow. So you end up with lots of people getting angry with Refs and a whole lot of unnecessary drama. Plus, managing sin bins at grass roots will be a nightmare as Refs have enough other things to deal with.

 

[meee93]

Things I'd like to see before even thinking about sin bins;
1). Lower the threshold for what is a yellow card.
2). Anyone crowding the ref is an auto yellow. No ifs or buts.
3). Any pull of shirt is a yellow.
4). Any tackle from behind that is a foul is a yellow. They know they're simply stopping a player who has gotten the wrong side of them.
5).Diving = yellow. Given a retrospective match ban and a fine is video proves no contact.
6). Anyone who theatrically falls or exaggerates a genuine foul gets a yellow (even if they still get the free kick).
7). Give free kicks to players who are fouled but haven't fallen over. Don't reward being weak and punish being honest.
8). Players not running to be 10 yards away from the ball when their team concedes a free kick gets a yellow if the ball touches them.
9).Players that touch the ball when a decision has gone against their team = yellow. I don't care if they "only" kicked it 1 meter away.
10). Players not running off the pitch when substituted = yellow to both them and the player coming on.
11). Every 5 fouls that a team gives away = a yellow card to that player.
12). If a player commits a foul after the opposition have passed through the press then give yellow card. Even if it's in the other end of the pitch, it's cynical fouling.
13). Goalkeeper takes longer than 10 seconds to kick a football from goalkick then yellow and a corner to the other team. More than enough time for a professional to kick the ball properly.
14). Player takes more than 10 seconds to take a throw in then yellow and give the throw in to the other team. At the moment there no point in marking at a throw in as they simply wait until somebody is free
15). Stop refs from giving players 'warnings' or calling players a side to chat to them. They are professional footballers they should know the rules. Refs don't need to coach them. Just apply the rules and punish accordingly.


If after all of that that there is still too much cynical play, then bring in sin bins. But don't jump straight to it.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Things I'd like to see before even thinking about sin bins;
1). Lower the threshold for what is a yellow card.
2). Anyone crowding the ref is an auto yellow. No ifs or buts.
3). Any pull of shirt is a yellow.
4). Any tackle from behind that is a foul is a yellow. They know they're simply stopping a player who has gotten the wrong side of them.
5).Diving = yellow. Given a retrospective match ban and a fine is video proves no contact.
6). Anyone who theatrically falls or exaggerates a genuine foul gets a yellow (even if they still get the free kick).
7). Give free kicks to players who are fouled but haven't fallen over. Don't reward being weak and punish being honest.
8). Players not running to be 10 yards away from the ball when their team concedes a free kick gets a yellow if the ball touches them.
9).Players that touch the ball when a decision has gone against their team = yellow. I don't care if they "only" kicked it 1 meter away.
10). Players not running off the pitch when substituted = yellow to both them and the player coming on.
11). Every 5 fouls that a team gives away = a yellow card to that player.
12). If a player commits a foul after the opposition have passed through the press then give yellow card. Even if it's in the other end of the pitch, it's cynical fouling.
13). Goalkeeper takes longer than 10 seconds to kick a football from goalkick then yellow and a corner to the other team. More than enough time for a professional to kick the ball properly.
14). Player takes more than 10 seconds to take a throw in then yellow and give the throw in to the other team. At the moment there no point in marking at a throw in as they simply wait until somebody is free
15). Stop refs from giving players 'warnings' or calling players a side to chat to them. They are professional footballers they should know the rules. Refs don't need to coach them. Just apply the rules and punish accordingly.


If after all of that that there is still too much cynical play, then bring in sin bins. But don't jump straight to it.

That's a great plan.

If it was fully implemented tomorrow by referees would you expect to see a plethora of red cards or a complete change in players' behaviour?

The idea of giving the throw to the opponents for time wasting is spot on. I've thought it for a long time. I would take it a step further and award the opposition possession for any form of time wasting. That would put an end to it immediately.

 

[steveperryman]

I hope cynical fouls include stopping a counterattack. It's becoming the curse of the modern game, at least in preventing attacking football.

When Son scored that brilliant solo goal against Burnley last year (or the previous year?) where he dribbled from inside his own half, afterwards Dyche bemoaned the failure of his players to commit a 'technical foul'. As though it's some sort of morally acceptable foul.

City or should i say Pep is particularly guilty of this.

 

[steveperryman]

Enforce the laws already in place & use technology in order to simplify the task of the refs. It's not rocket science. Honestly who pays these people for thinking up this BS. Sin bins is an American thing, it should bloody well stay there.

What's next from the powers that be, tea & crumpets at HT? That makes more sense than this drivel.

 

[USAFSPURS]

This whole Blue Card thing is just another example of weak leadership and instead of actually having the balls to take on the hard/difficult problems...they predictably take a weak/easy route....thereby not actually solving anything.

There is nothing wrong with the current card system....the issue is the refs not willing to slap shitheads with them when they do something wrong.