Blue Cards | Page 5 | Vital Football

Blue Cards

I look at Peps team they virtually take it in turns to kick opposition, Rodri gets, away with several every game before a card is raised.
My argument for the 'Blue Card' comes from one scenario this, season the foul by Matt Cash on Bentancur, now we lost impetus in that game due to that foul, the injured player had to leave the field of play and is really only now returning.
Now had Cash been given a 'Blue Card' at least it would have had some negative effect for Villa, at that time.
(Yup I know it should've been a red).
mees'points are indeed valid, but equally as difficult to impose as the Blue Card option.
 
Before I retired, the bain of my life was the 'look at your watch and tell you the time' brigade of management consultants. These change for change sake merchants with their readily customisable PowerPoint presentations wasted so much time and money at the behest of sponsors trying to justify a job. IFAB seems to be of the same ilk.
 
Liverpool manager Klopp led managerial opposition to the blue card becoming a permanent fixture, saying ahead of his side’s Premier League match against Burnley: “The introduction of a new card would just give more opportunities to fail because the discussion then would be, ‘Should it have been a blue card, or a yellow card?’

“It does not sound like a fantastic idea, but I can’t remember when the last fantastic idea came from these guys, [or] if they ever had one.”

Arsenal counterpart Arteta questioned whether football was “ready” for such a move, while Chelsea’s Pochettino said: “I think it is going to create more divides, be more complicated to the referees, the players and the fans. My feeling now is that it’s not a good idea, but we’ll see what happens.”

Tottenham Hotspur’s Postecoglou and Newcastle United’s Eddie Howe were among the most outspoken.

Postecoglou said: “I struggle to understand why this urgency all of a sudden to bring in new things. I don’t know that there’s much wrong with the game.

“I don’t know why a different colour card is going to make any difference.
“I struggle from this taking from other sports. Most of the other sports are trying to introduce rules that will speed up and unclutter their game. We’re going the other way and I don’t know why because that’s always been the difference between football and the other sports.”

Howe added: “I’m not a big fan to be honest; that’s what yellow cards are for. The current system works well; it just has to be applied right. Adding a blue card would just add more confusion in my opinion so I’m against it.”
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
That's a great plan.

If it was fully implemented tomorrow by referees would you expect to see a plethora of red cards or a complete change in players' behaviour?

The idea of giving the throw to the opponents for time wasting is spot on. I've thought it for a long time. I would take it a step further and award the opposition possession for any form of time wasting. That would put an end to it immediately.
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My guess is that it would take max 5 weeks to change player behaviour for the smarter teams. A few more the idiots.
Week 1 - WTF, I've just got 2 yellows for 'nothing'?
Week 2 - WTF, its happened again. Are the refs really going to keep doing this?
Week 3 - Shit, they are and I've been sent off again.
Week 4 - I'll have to be smarter
Week 5 - fixed or the manager doesn't pick the culprits

Players will keep getting punished for a while as so much of this is trained in to them for years. But they will learn, and we've seen with tactic changes and other rule changes, that players learn to adapt for the most part. Those that don't fall behind and won't be trusted on the pitch.
 
Have I got this right

a Red is a Red
a yellow is a yellow
2 yellows make a red
a Blue is a 10 min bin sit
a yellow and a blue = a Red

so whats the point of a yellow then a blue ? ... may as well be a Red

so whats the point of the 10 mins - they get pardoned after that and it starts all over again
 
sldspurs said:
Have I got this right

a Red is a Red
a yellow is a yellow
2 yellows make a red
a Blue is a 10 min bin sit
a yellow and a blue = a Red

so whats the point of a yellow then a blue ? ... may as well be a Red

so whats the point of the 10 mins - they get pardoned after that and it starts all over again
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That's a very good point.

I suspect the way it would work is that if a player had already received a yellow card then the blue card offence would be an automatic red card.

A blue card could only be awarded, in effect, if a player hadn't previously received a yellow card. I haven't read up on it enough to be sure. Maybe others can confirm?

I've just been reading an article by ex-referee Keith Hackett. Sin-bins have been trialled in English football since the 2019-20 season with 31 grassroots leagues taking part up to National 5 level. It is only used for dissent.

He says "Since the sin-bin was introduced at grass-roots level, it has had a very positive effect. It is a deterrent. It is not used liberally by referees, which is what we thought might happen initially. It is used sensibly and has been a positive addition to grass-roots officiating."

One big difference though is that there are no blue cards. A yellow card is raised and the referee points towards the sin bin (wherever or whatever that is).

The blue card is unnecessary and has clouded the issue.

He also goes on to say "We are also doing this in part because of weak refereeing. We do not see as many referees chatting and building a working relationship like I used to do. I ran the line for people like Jack Taylor, Pat Partridge and these were guys who communicated throughout the match and won the respect of players."

Such a good point. Do referees even talk to the players any more? You'd think it would be worth their while calling both captains together before the game and laying out clearly what is expected and what won't be tolerated. And then follow through in the game according to the laws of the game.
 
Ironically, all the main issues we are discussing here are rarely noticed in the WSL where most games are played the way they should be played. There are still mistakes by officials (and there always will be) but the on-pitch behaviour and attitude of the players toward the officials and each other negate the desperate need for change felt by many involved with the PL. Basically, it seems to me, the difference is player attitude. The WSL is far younger than the PL and, hopefully, it will not evolve in the negative way we are now seeing in our game.
 
Geofspurs said:
Ironically, all the main issues we are discussing here are rarely noticed in the WSL where most games are played the way they should be played. There are still mistakes by officials (and there always will be) but the on-pitch behaviour and attitude of the players toward the officials and each other negate the desperate need for change felt by many involved with the PL. Basically, it seems to me, the difference is player attitude. The WSL is far younger than the PL and, hopefully, it will not evolve in the negative way we are now seeing in our game.
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The difference is money.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
The difference is money.
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Morning TQ. Yes, that might be true. But by comparing both leagues there are lessons to be learned. Playing the game the way it should be played - the way it has been enjoyed for decades - will not hurt the game and could well attract more supporters. It's all the histrionics by players, and the reluctance of officials to deal with it, that is destroying the flow of the beautiful game. Fixing that won't adversely affect the money. More enjoyable games means more supporters and means even more money.
 
Matic said:
The rules don't need changing. The culture does.
I don't have any confidence in this rule change making the blind bit of difference. It won't stop Bruno diving, it won't stop Rodri committing tactical fouls and it won't stop Odegaard mouthing off.

The refs have lost respect because of extremely poor performances in this last year. People have lost all confidence in VAR because of the human error from, you guessed it, the referee in the room.

The refs need retraining. The rules need cleaning up. And VAR needs to be properly utilised. THEN the culture will start to improve. Everyone on here is pretty aligned when it comes to the current card system being actually enforced, so why not first make sure it is! Or introduce a small change, much like having to stay off the pitch for 30 seconds after going down. If someone gets a yellow, make them go off the pitch for 30 seconds too!
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PGMOL monitor over 500 officials in this country, elevate the top 15-20 to elite status and pay them handsomely.

Root cause......this process doesn't work.

Genuinely, it's not about "retraining". It's about having a better process for letting the cream rise to the top in the first place.

You have to ask yourself how an Anthony Taylor or Mike Dean got this far in the first place. In the cold light of day, guys like these 2 are simply not the best at what they do. There are better refs up and down this country that will build a new culture a PGMOL if given a chance.
 
muttley said:
PGMOL monitor over 500 officials in this country, elevate the top 15-20 to elite status and pay them handsomely.

Root cause......this process doesn't work.

Genuinely, it's not about "retraining". It's about having a better process for letting the cream rise to the top in the first place.

You have to ask yourself how an Anthony Taylor or Mike Dean got this far in the first place. In the cold light of day, guys like these 2 are simply not the best at what they do. There are better refs up and down this country that will build a new culture a PGMOL if given a chance.
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This is the type of refs that get promoted to the top level for a 10 year career. Every time he opens his mouth he brings his career into further dispute

Ex-referee Mark Clattenburg: "Even in the Premier League, I still smile at the first time I came across Roy Keane." "He screamed at us for a corner and I'm sure it was a goal kick but because he screamed at us so loudly, I gave a corner. I was that petrified of him."
 
Clearly some referees are better than others but let's face it, they all make mistakes that are now pored over endlessly by partizan fans and pundits. The advent of VAR has further dented their authority and reputations. I hate change for change sake but with technology here to stay, the rules themselves need to be simplified to make subjective decisions less contentious.
 
We just need to recruit/promote ref's who will apply the rules of the game as they stand; ref's who won't brook no interference, no intimidation and who doesn't want to be the players friends.

As I said before; bring the automatic 1 match ban down to 3 yellows from the current 5, anyone who earns that ban twice in a season, thereafter is on a two match ban.

Fine the club, bring in painful fines for clubs for cumulative yellows beyond 12 per squad and increasing thereafter. Watch how fast clubs get in control of their players behaviour.

Fine the players the maximum allowed every time they pick up a one match ban as well. Nothing makes players attitudes and behaviours change than when it hits their and their agent's pockets.

Do that, and this nonsense is over once and for all.

This is all a function/subset of the old 'if you measure it you can manage it' cliché - this is why this smacks of the work of 'management consultants' which I'm told had a big hand in this with UEFA - what they are missing is that poor leadership results in poor decision-making. This nonsense is a prime example.

There is no need for another level of complexity or a blue card.

But, of course, it all relies on ref's applying the rules and not being pussies.
 
Love the thought of five guys surrounding the ref , giving him abuse .. are they all going to get a blue card ,,…. I think not . Are any of them going to get a card of any colour , I think not .

It is all ridiculous .
 
Geofspurs said:
Ironically, all the main issues we are discussing here are rarely noticed in the WSL where most games are played the way they should be played. There are still mistakes by officials (and there always will be) but the on-pitch behaviour and attitude of the players toward the officials and each other negate the desperate need for change felt by many involved with the PL. Basically, it seems to me, the difference is player attitude. The WSL is far younger than the PL and, hopefully, it will not evolve in the negative way we are now seeing in our game.
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Let’s hope the James girl is not an example of what is to come in the WSL!
 
muttley said:
PGMOL monitor over 500 officials in this country, elevate the top 15-20 to elite status and pay them handsomely.

Root cause......this process doesn't work.

Genuinely, it's not about "retraining". It's about having a better process for letting the cream rise to the top in the first place.

You have to ask yourself how an Anthony Taylor or Mike Dean got this far in the first place. In the cold light of day, guys like these 2 are simply not the best at what they do. There are better refs up and down this country that will build a new culture a PGMOL if given a chance.
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In the old days (yes I know , yawn) I seem to recall the rumours that those referees that put themselves about in the County Associations got the promotions. Some called it brown nosing! I wonder if it is the same now?

However, whatever the merits of the past promotion systems the quality of referees appears to have been much better. Nevertheless there must have been a much stronger weeding out system that stopped over promotions.

I wonder if our resident former referee, Walt, can throw light on the past process and compare that against the present.
 
spurs1954 said:
In the old days (yes I know , yawn) I seem to recall the rumours that those referees that put themselves about in the County Associations got the promotions. Some called it brown nosing! I wonder if it is the same now?

However, whatever the merits of the past promotion systems the quality of referees appears to have been much better. Nevertheless there must have been a much stronger weeding out system that stopped over promotions.

I wonder if our resident former referee, Walt, can throw light on the past process and compare that against the present.
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I wonder if the Freemasons are involved as they are in many other areas of society where promotions are concerned?
 
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