The Oh's versus the O's | Page 7 | Vital Football

The Oh's versus the O's

hindleymonwafc said:
Just to clarify my position...yes I'm having a whinge about negative tactics but nothing will stop me renewing next season. The 2 aren't linked.
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me an all mate. ive herd there offering 2 kidney punches and a kick in the nuts to erly bird adopters. whats not to like eh.

got to give the new look teem a chance to shine and get behind them.👍
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I think we were fortunate they got a man sent off as they were the better side with 11 on the pitch and playing some good stuff around our box. They really didn't have much individual quality but they were clearly really well coached and they played pass and move the way it should be. Their style of play made them greater than the sum of their parts before they went down to 10. Jones and McManaman went on a couple of good solo runs on the counter to put decent balls in the box that we should've done a lot better with.

The sending off completely changed the game and their mentality, as they just settled for a 0-0 and made virtually no attempt to go forward which made our life much easier as we could just go all out attack without having to worry about getting caught out on the counter. I think they went far too negative from their perspective as completely surrendering midfield to us and defending so deep for so long is asking for trouble. We weren't creating that much but them allowing us so much of the ball meant eventually we were going to put a decent ball in and fortunately Kerr put it in the net. It came from a well worked short corner - which is a real rarity. Johnny Smith has a superb delivery, I think he's probably a better crosser than even Pearce, he's probably not as good at beating men as others but the others final ball aren't generally as strong. Smith is also very good for set pieces.

After we went ahead the team was very unbalanced with only 2 defensive minded players on the pitch but thankfully we managed to see it out and Hughes had to make one superb last ditch clearance to save us.

After watching Goode for a few games I find his signing really strange as he's just another big stopper like Watts - who we don't ever use because he can't play out well enough. He's not at all suited to Maloney's style and he's not a patch on Morrison or Kerr who he plays in front of. We really should've used that loan spot on a more needed def midfielder.

Magennis is getting critasism, which is fair enough for his inability to finish the chances created in that first half. But he actually held the ball reasonably well again. We need better than him next season but Maloney's style needs a target man and if he doesn't play we struggle to make anything stick.

Centre mid continues to be too lightweight and we desperately need Shaw in there. Adeeko is doing much better with the ball over the last couple of games, being more positive and not just going backwards but he isn't a tackler and neither is Smith, we leave ourself very vulnerable having a centre mid with 2 players like that.

I thought Scott Smith did well again at right back and I'm much happier with him there ahead of Clare.

It was a win but it really wasn't a great again, I am growing increasingly concerned at the seeming lack of progress in our style of play after so long. First few games if the season we saw some good pass and move but since then we've barely seen any. The handful of good performances we've had were more hard working, counter attacking displays which were good in their own right but they were kind of us playing a different type of football than what Maloney seems to want to play. Considering we want to be a pass and move team and often see so much of the ball we seem to have a distinct lack of movement which is the fundamental key to this style. We more often rely on our wingers picking up the ball deep and individually beating men to make anything happen rather than seeing passing moves open up teams. There seems a lack of method to our overall play other than just keep passing it and I was hoping that we'd be seeing that develop gradually over the season and unfortunately I don't think it is.
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I agree with almost all of your summing up KDZ but were we differ is in the first paragraph. Personally I wouldn't have said they were better than us with the eleven v eleven.

For the first ten to fifteen minutes I thought we stood toe to toe with them and both sides were pressing high and stifling each others attacks. After that they did seem to win the battle of the presses and we dropped back into a more defensive shape but were catching them on the break as both Jones and McManaman made decent runs behind their press and set up chances.

I can only remember a single chance that they made that caused Tickle any problem, and to be perfectly honest I wasn't sure if the player mishit a cross or meant the shot.

In my opinion we could have been a couple up at half time if chances had been taken when presented, so to say that they were better than us seems a tad confusing. They may have had more of the ball in advanced positions but we coped well with that and created more chances on the break than their possession did for them.

The sending off of their player was also due to the pressure he was under from Jordan Jones constantly running at him and both fouls were deserving of the cards he received and he could have no complaints about the outcome. As most have said this then changed the whole complexion of the game and they came out in the second half to simply defend and frustrate by setting up with four across the middle and five at the back, and yet we still created chances to have made the game safe well before the end.

As said, I agree with 99% of your post but we will have to, once again, agree to disagree over the final 1%.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
I agree with almost all of your summing up KDZ but were we differ is in the first paragraph. Personally I wouldn't have said they were better than us with the eleven v eleven.

For the first ten to fifteen minutes I thought we stood toe to toe with them and both sides were pressing high and stifling each others attacks. After that they did seem to win the battle of the presses and we dropped back into a more defensive shape but were catching them on the break as both Jones and McManaman made decent runs behind their press and set up chances.

I can only remember a single chance that they made that caused Tickle any problem, and to be perfectly honest I wasn't sure if the player mishit a cross or meant the shot.

In my opinion we could have been a couple up at half time if chances had been taken when presented, so to say that they were better than us seems a tad confusing. They may have had more of the ball in advanced positions but we coped well with that and created more chances on the break than their possession did for them.

The sending off of their player was also due to the pressure he was under from Jordan Jones constantly running at him and both fouls were deserving of the cards he received and he could have no complaints about the outcome. As most have said this then changed the whole complexion of the game and they came out in the second half to simply defend and frustrate by setting up with four across the middle and five at the back, and yet we still created chances to have made the game safe well before the end.

As said, I agree with 99% of your post but we will have to, once again, agree to disagree over the final 1%.
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Their best chance in the first half was when Pratley found space on the edge if the area and fired a fierce shot just wide.

I think they were playing far better than us but we had the better players so we were able to create chances from less of the ball.

Them immediately taking off their left winger O'Neil after the red really helped as i felt he was their biggest threat up to that point runningat us. I was also suprised they took off their only remaing pace and top scorer Forde for another defender early in the second half as he was their best chance of a break away goal.

As you said they just tried to park the bus second half and while with 10 men you obviously have to be more cautious and keep it tight I think they made the mistake of going all out defence and weren't really looking for counters and that just made it easier for us than you'd have guessed to dominate.

They brought on Piggot for the last 10 mins and started to go long and they immediately started to cause us issues. He did the same in our previous game at their place, if I was Wellens I'd have had him on at half time as that would've been far more difficult for us if they had someone who could win flick ons and hold the ball with Forde looking to run off him. I'm obviously glad they didn't but I thought tactically they played into our hands after the red.
 
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Whelans broken leg said:
Been to every home game this season. They were garbage. Any Decent side would have put 5 past them today both teams.
were piss poor. The standard of football in this league. Is atrocious this season.
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We have to send out a lot of gratitude for the sending off. Without that we wouldn't have won. A very good three points but horrible to watch still. A baffling line up and some strange substitutions at times.
However we missed three sitters and had other chances but our goal was our first chance on target.
Also baffled to know why when defending a corner we don't leave a man up the field and against ten men that is ridiculous.
 
Whelans broken leg said:
Please don’t say league one football is good.
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We were ecstatic years ago when we were promoted into it and as a non league club a third division club were huge in the cup.
We should never forget our roots simply because we've had a journey. We didn't call it crap in the days we were pushing to get promoted from it.
Another point is that with all the overseas players in the game pushing home grown players down the pyramid then League one has probably players playing in it that would have been top flight players and internationals at one time.
 
jeffs right said:
We have to send out a lot of gratitude for the sending off. Without that we wouldn't have won. A very good three points but horrible to watch still. A baffling line up and some strange substitutions at times.
However we missed three sitters and had other chances but our goal was our first chance on target.
Also baffled to know why when defending a corner we don't leave a man up the field and against ten men that is ridiculous.
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TBH Jeff, I am perplexed as to the reason we don't leave a man up at all times. They would surely have to bring a man back to cover him and therefore it just evens up in the box but would give us the option to break when we clear the ball.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
TBH Jeff, I am perplexed as to the reason we don't leave a man up at all times. They would surely have to bring a man back to cover him and therefore it just evens up in the box but would give us the option to break when we clear the ball.
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I think I say this most games....leave 1 up front when defending a corner & it takes at least 2 of them out thr mix. Also yesterday wud have been even more so as it would have only left 6 opposition players up for the corner...oh n if it was Humphreys we left up front then perhaps wud drag 3 opposition players out of our box to mark him....🤔
 
jeffs right said:
We were ecstatic years ago when we were promoted into it and as a non league club a third division club were huge in the cup.
We should never forget our roots simply because we've had a journey. We didn't call it crap in the days we were pushing to get promoted from it.
Another point is that with all the overseas players in the game pushing home grown players down the pyramid then League one has probably players playing in it that would have been top flight players and internationals at one time.
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Modern coaching is ruining the game. Yesterday morning I went watching my grandson play football. Under. 9 just kids that want to play foot ball. Proper set up. From. Under 5 yr old girls teams men teams. The lot. The opposition team had a free kick. And the coach. Made a player lie down behind the wall. Kids football unbelievable. And the free kick hit the Corner flag
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Their best chance in the first half was when Pratley found space on the edge if the area and fired a fierce shot just wide.

I think they were playing far better than us but we had the better players so we were able to create chances from less of the ball.

Them immediately taking off their left winger O'Neil after the red really helped as i felt he was their biggest threat up to that point runningat us. I was also suprised they took off their only remaing pace and top scorer Forde for another defender early in the second half as he was their best chance of a break away goal.

As you said they just tried to park the bus second half and while with 10 men you obviously have to be more cautious and keep it tight I think they made the mistake of going all out defence and weren't really looking for counters and that just made it easier for us than you'd have guessed to dominate.

They brought on Piggot for the last 10 mins and started to go long and they immediately started to cause us issues. He did the same in our previous game at their place, if I was Wellens I'd have had him on at half time as that would've been far more difficult for us if they had someone who could win flick ons and hold the ball with Forde looking to run off him. I'm obviously glad they didn't but I thought tactically they played into our hands after the red.
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I too was bemused that they took O'Neil off as he was genuinely causing problems.

They did try to park the bus and it was obvious that they had set up to frustrate us as they seemed reluctant to break when the chance to presented itself.

I was worried towards the end that because we had gone so offensive, with the changes as we pushed forward in search of a goal, that we might have ended up drawing the game due to a lack of defensive players on the pitch and we seemed to, once again, invite pressure onto ourselves by backing off.

I felt that we lacked the experience on the pitch to exploit the fact that they were pushing forward in the last ten minutes or so and took Beckles off, who had also had a decent game in keeping the centre of their defence tight. I think we tried to consolidate in defence rather than use the players we had with pace to turn them around and play a few more balls out wide and into space to get the likes of Godo and Jones free out wide.

I think that is something that the players, such as Hughes and Matt Smith, with a little more experience next season will add to their games.
 
Whelans broken leg said:
Please don’t say league one football is good.
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I'm not saying that ... I'm saying that EVERY season we're in it, you comment that it's crap.

Given you've watched us in League 1 (& Div 3) probably more than any other single division, I'd have thought you were quite used to the standard by now.

If you're saying that it's not as good as it used to be, yep, I've got a pair of them rose tinted specs too. Superb for looking backwards.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
To be fair though L1 is never a strong league. Usually a handful of decent sides in play off mix but mid and bottom half is generally pretty weak.
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It's just the implication - every season - that it's worse than usual that rubs me up the wrong way. It's almost like a "ah well, but" dampener in case we're successful !
 
jocklatic said:
I think I say this most games....leave 1 up front when defending a corner & it takes at least 2 of them out thr mix. Also yesterday wud have been even more so as it would have only left 6 opposition players up for the corner...oh n if it was Humphreys we left up front then perhaps wud drag 3 opposition players out of our box to mark him....🤔
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In all honesty Jock, when I was playing (a long time ago, I know, and to a lesser standard I accept) I hated to have a crowded box. The fewer players in front of me the more chance I had that I could see a path to the ball and less chance that the ball would ricochet around like a bloody ping pong ball off players legs.

I would always get the manager to move a couple of players with pace, usually the two smallest guys on the pitch, outside the box, one mid way to the half way line and the other on the centre spot. This always encouraged the opposition to think and often confused them into panicking a little as it was not something that every team did.

I'm not saying it actually prevented the opposition from scoring if they got the delivery right but it did get us a few breakaway goals when we were able to clear the ball quickly.
 
moonay said:
It's just the implication - every season - that it's worse than usual that rubs me up the wrong way. It's almost like a "ah well, but" dampener in case we're successful !
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I think the top of L1 has gotten stronger over the years as bigger clubs have ended up in there. They tend to have a bit more budget, quality and try and play more passing football. While about three quarters of the division is always very limited on budget, quality and more about hard work and battling. If you generally can match them for work rate you will get the results.

So I'd say it's overall a weak division but there are a handful of decent sides.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
In all honesty Jock, when I was playing (a long time ago, I know, and to a lesser standard I accept) I hated to have a crowded box. The fewer players in front of me the more chance I had that I could see a path to the ball and less chance that the ball would ricochet around like a bloody ping pong ball off players legs.

I would always get the manager to move a couple of players with pace, usually the two smallest guys on the pitch, outside the box, one mid way to the half way line and the other on the centre spot. This always encouraged the opposition to think and often confused them into panicking a little as it was not something that every team did.

I'm not saying it actually prevented the opposition from scoring if they got the delivery right but it did get us a few breakaway goals when we were able to clear the ball quickly.
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Modern coaches. That’s the way they want to play. And they all try to copy
 
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