MATCH THREAD v Wolves 17th Feb 3 pm | Page 19 | Vital Football

MATCH THREAD v Wolves 17th Feb 3 pm

Just look at ETH at Manure, they are really only starting to come to something now, and he's with them since 2022.
Even at that there is still work for them to do.
We are very early in our turnaround.
I accept Spex's criticism as it's well balanced and indeed evidenced.
But as PY says there is, just a bit too much negativity at this stage.
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
Even the the untouchable , genius , world class , messiah Pep needed two seasons to turn things around , even with all the back street dealers at his command .

Ange keeps saying , he keeps telling us , WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH YET .

He knows . He keeps saying we have a long way to go .

If he thought he had the complete article out there and kept coming up with excuses , I would be worried .

I didn’t enjoy the game , but I’ve enjoyed the season , and I almost gave up watching at all last season .

He tells us we didn’t do things right , we let them into the game , we allowed them to play , he can see what is not going right .

And if we think he can put it all right in half a season , with half a squad ,a few walking wounded, many of whom he doesn’t actually want , and if he actually could , he wouldn’t have been here in the first place .
He would be walking on water somewhere with a lot more money at his disposal .
We need time , he knows it .
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Walt, I know u are a genuine guy and I respect that but I have to repeat myself ; I would like to share yr enthusiasm but sadly the trade mark is there and I can't.
 
From day one I've been completely on the fence where Postco is concerned. I certainly wasn't convinced when we employed him, how could anybody be, he simply had no sort of track record which made him a worthy Spurs appointment, but given the debacles we experienced with Mourinho and Conte, so much for track record, why not try something(one) different. My view from the outset therefore was let's give him a season, hopefully the Club will support him in the market, and let's see where we are after he's had forty odd games in charge in his first season.
A few months on I'm still very much on the fence. We haven't performed in either of the Cups, and I certainly wasn't taken in too much by our first dozen games. The team were allowed to play with the escape from Conte freedom that was essential, there is invariably a new manager bounce at most Club's, we made a couple of major and key signings which were more important to us at the time than the loss of Kane, and Postco certainly created the right sort of impression, certainly with the fans, and I'm sure with the Club.
My continuing reservation after the good start however, was that it was too early to judge given that any which way it was looked at, Postco was extremely fortunate with our early season fixture list. I readily admit though that he has been equally unfortunate with the injury run in the middle part of the season. We do however have a run of consecutive fixtures in the latter part of the season against Newcastle, City, Liverpool and Arsenal, plus a rearranged fixture against Chelsea to fit in. I can't help but wonder what the view would be generally, and what our current situation would be, if we'd had that type of run of fixtures during the first twelve games.
So I'll continue to sit on the fence until the end of the season, when we've played everybody else, including the top Clubs twice. I've said repeatedly in recent times that we are a 'big six' Club, whereby any finish outside of the top six is simply unsatisfactory. If Postco finishes in the top four with a CL place he will most certainly win me over, if we're top six and in the Europa League that will be a decent first season well worth the opportunity to build further on it, if we don't make the top six we still haven't got the right guy.
 
Gary O Neill took over at Wolves three days before the season started - he seems to have them playing to a system that suits them perfectly. They are far more cohesive and organised than we are.
Emery's Villa all be it with an extra half season on Ange has his villa team far more organised and dangerous than Spurs even though they play a high risk high line. Their defence does not get exposed the way ours does.
I'll say it again, unless Ange becomes adaptable he won't last long in the Premier LEague.
 
HootersHotspur said:
Gary O Neill took over at Wolves three days before the season started - he seems to have them playing to a system that suits them perfectly. They are far more cohesive and organised than we are.
Emery's Villa all be it with an extra half season on Ange has his villa team far more organised and dangerous than Spurs even though they play a high risk high line. Their defence does not get exposed the way ours does.
I'll say it again, unless Ange becomes adaptable he won't last long in the Premier LEague.
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We also need some perspective, and should be measured and cognisant of what has gone wrong/undermined recent performances:

We have looked like a team not performing as well as we are capable of doing. A team unable to dominate opponents over the whole game, conceding far too many chances, and often relying on individual quality at both ends of the pitch to get us over the line, or off the hook.

When was the last truly convincing 90-minute performance?

When was the last time we have played as well as we routinely did in those first few weeks of the season? Certainly not the Burnley win in the FA Cup, (a dismal game rescued by one brilliant goal from Porro). Not the Bournemouth victory, when we were outplayed for long spells, but nicked it at the end. Not edging past Everton, when we were desperately hanging on for much of the second half. Probably not even beating Nottingham Forest at the City Ground, a professional performance against dreadful opposition in a poor-quality game.

You have to go back more than three months to our 4-1 win over an injury-hit Barcodes, back in early December to find an occasion when we last dominated and controlled a whole game.

Of course, you'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to see that there is plenty of mitigation for why we're are not playing as well as we did at the start of the season. Half of the first team have missed long spells with injuries or international duty over the past four months. The squad is simply not deep enough to survive those absences, but that excuse can't go on forever.

Romero and VDV have been back for a month now. This was Maddison’s fourth start in a row. Son, Bissouma and Sarr are all back from their tournaments and all started against Wolves. Yes, we are missing Porro and Udogie, and in fairness Ange did not want to take these as an excuse, he just held his hands up and said he's not a magician. Although to my mind as excellently as he has done through the injuries and absences, he is the one that directs the tactics and the set up, as RD said, god knows what Dragu must be thinking after seeing Davies start ahead of him. (Unless of course, the little we have seen of him in video's is flattering to deceive) - I have a feeling we'll find out soon.

But the true mark of a good team is playing well more often than not, dictating the terms of the contest, taking control from the first minute and never allowing your opponent a foothold in the game. That is the football Ange aspires to, the football we have slowly slipped away from over the past few months.

Maybe this overdue defeat will remind the players where they need to get back to?


Maybe this is the low that forces Ange to tweak his starting line up and tactics?
 
USAFSPURS said:
This is literally the easiest it will ever get. LOL
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Afraid I'd argue that; when you're learning new skills, new patterns of play the best way to practice them and use them is in real competitive matches.

As much as we can all believe that over-playing is a curse, I can promise you nothing erodes your edge like not playing regularly enough in competitive games, and nothing kills your enthusiasm like doing the same thing again and again in training...as of now, I'd much prefer if we were playing two matches a week..of course, our issue will be still, a lack of depth and the absence of real footballing intelligence where it matters, leadership on the pitch.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
Our U21 match v West Ham wasn't covered by Spursplay on Saturday but it is now reported Sessegnon was given a start for the side but lasted just 35 minutes before pulling up with an injury and had to be replaced. I really feel for the guy but it is surely time to let him go to a league where the lesser demands may allow him a career of some sorts.
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I hate to write the man off, but I think he's reached the end of the road - A year off in some sunny climes somewhere rebuilding his body is perhaps the only hope he has left.

This is what all too often happens when young players are chucked in at the deep end of top level professional football.
 
Spursex said:
It was a frustrating game, a game we should have, could have won.

Maybe this type of flat period was inevitable?
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I didn't see either of the last 2 games, and probably don't need to based on everyones analyses. I just hope this is just a flat period and not a case that Ange isn't going to adapt.

When you're Celtic, you let the opposition worry about you. When you're Celtic playing in the CL, you need to worry about your opposition. I don't know whether Ange did or didn't use those games to find a plan B, but I'm sensing not. There were no expectations to do well in that comp anyway.

Obviously, when you're Spurs and in the PL, there really are few games where you can just get on with your own tactics and let the opposition worry about you. I doubt even Pep or Klopp does that in the top of the table clashes. They tweak things appropriately.

Quite worryingly, the fingers will be pointing at Ange for his inflexibilities. He is a lot more likeable than Eddie Jones but if he doesn't adapt then he will start getting the Eddie Jones treatment from the fans.

As I say, I haven't seen the games but do believe that, like Conte, Ange needs that midfield pivot to be on fire to make the system work well. It hasn't been for a long time now and the defence are having too much work to do.

I'm also sensing that instead of having these short, intense training sessions Ange should consider switching things up tactically. The newest pattern is seeing players not even making the weekend fixture because he's broke them during the week. Then the boys turn up, look less than 100% intense on the pitch and get outplayed. That's not a good look for Ange.
 
Spursex said:
It was a frustrating game, a game we should have, could have won.

Maybe this type of flat period was inevitable?
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I do think this flat period was inevitable. New coach honeymoon is over. Teams know how we play now and are setting up for it. Pair that with our lack of true quality depth, some injuries to key players, and I argue that AP still doesn't have a starting 11 he likes yet....yep it was coming. But that is ok, this is year one of a multi year rebuild I think. Not a bad start in my opinion.

As far as yesterday's game...I don't think we every could have nor should we have won it. Honestly we were very fortunate not to have conceded a few more and we only had 2 'true' good looks. Kulu had one and Davies scuffed an open header late. (I don't count Kulu's goal...that was fluky as hell!! LOL)
 
Spursex said:
It was a frustrating game, a game we should have, could have won.

Maybe this type of flat period was inevitable?
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Certainly injuries, absences and suspensions have precluded any meaningful rotation, but against that is the fewer games in the schedule. To a large extent, I believe in attack being the best form of defence so want Angeball to succeed. Camping in the opposition half has got to less demanding than that end to end stuff. We just seem to have lost conviction in the high press or perhaps it is not physically sustainable in the PL. It is natural that peeps are looking for tweaks to shore up the defence but I first want to see more aggression for the full 90+ minutes now we have a fuller squad to choose from.
 
Spursex said:
He's a good coach and has a singular view of how to win a game, when we went through our early sticky patch, I saw this as a potential problem, and said so and got beat up for it lol!

He relies on one primary tactical pattern of play which is to create overloads by inverting the wing back's into midfield and an overwhelming forward press.

And of course fast counter press/resistance when we lose the ball.

So achieving quick turnovers is critical (I know you all know this), but where it falls down is when we aren't at 100% with our 'A' Team and we have to rely on the second tier players. They just aren't good enough to counter smart coaches, we were so narrow, it was literally driving us nuts against Wolves and tempers were beginning to fray.

So far, many have put up a good effort but when they are just off even a little bit, the system breaks down - as has been said; all an opposition coach has to do if he has a quick forward line is play through the lines with a quick/pacy through ball, either to the winger running forward or through the middle, as our two CB are largely now no further back than the half way line.

So one opposition forward runs on to receive it and passes to the other, and we're opened up like a can of beans, all cohesion for the defence goes with it.

VDV can't be in two places at once - although he tries, but Romero gets caught again and again where he has to read the play and just doesn't. The moment you see the opposition make that through ball pass, you start biting your lip and holding your breath; Vicario can't save everything, no matter how good a sweeper keeper he is.

Our inverted wingbacks when it's not Porro and / or Udogie are too slow to play the role effectively and too easy to bypass and if our midfield is just 'off' as it was against Wolves; Sarr, Bissouma and Bentacour all looked like they need a 4 week holiday.

To my mind, our sloppy passing and slow start to the first half was all because of these issues - a lack of fitness in key players that undermines Ange's fixed approach.

I can only hope that when they replay and break the game down with the analysts today; that Ange sees what so many of us sees and starts working on a modified tactical approach that can become our Plan 'B' until such time the quality of our squad can be improved again in the summer.

We made it to easy for them, even though on the balance of play/chances, we should have at least shared the points.

Ange said he isn't a magician, and maybe he can't turn a sows' ear into a silk purse, but what he can do is stop approaching every game with a one size fits all mentality, which to my mind will ruin a potentially excellent first season for him and us.

He only has to do that until the end of the season, is that really too much to ask?
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Well put, I can't disagree with a word you've said there!

I have noticed that in certain games we have defended rather resolutely at against certain teams, rather than the above mentioned tactics whenever we're pressing forward and get sucker punched each time.

Perhaps we're missing that unicorn of a midfielder in the mould of Makalele?

It's shocking how awful our fullback situation is, I hope this is something that will be picked up in the summer!
 
Love totty said:
Certainly injuries, absences and suspensions have precluded any meaningful rotation, but against that is the fewer games in the schedule. To a large extent, I believe in attack being the best form of defence so want Angeball to succeed. Camping in the opposition half has got to less demanding than that end to end stuff. We just seem to have lost conviction in the high press or perhaps it is not physically sustainable in the PL. It is natural that peeps are looking for tweaks to shore up the defence but I first want to see more aggression for the full 90+ minutes now we have a fuller squad to choose from.
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There's clearly a few ways to press. The obvious one is all out press when you haven't got the ball. Then there is the zonal pressing, and I guess that is where you want us to get back into the high areas. Those 4 defenders and holders should have no time on the ball. Based on what I saw of the MOTD highlights, the Wolves lads combined their press with targeting certain players. Emerson looked like he was targeted. One slightly bad touch and they were all over him.

As I said above, that is all well good but what if the energy levels aren't there because of what is happening on the training ground. Perhaps I'm wrong in this perception but I feel like we've read too many times this season that "so and so" cannot play at the weekend because they broke down in training. The other part of that equation is that players start rebelling if they don't believe in the training and playing structure.
 
thelaughingcock said:
Perhaps we're missing that unicorn of a midfielder in the mould of Makalele?
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Just wondering is Sarr that type of player, or becoming that type of player, for me it's the Scott Parker type Jordan Henderson, Roy Keane just a leader. Kick up the arse stop the ball or player with all you've got, then bollock the guy who lost it in the first place.
 
Niall D said:
Just wondering is Sarr that type of player, or becoming that type of player, for me it's the Scott Parker type Jordan Henderson, Roy Keane just a leader. Kick up the arse stop the ball or player with all you've got, then bollock the guy who lost it in the first place.
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I actually think Kante took the Makalele role to a new level. I couldn't see Sarr as a deep lying Makalele. I can see him as the all action Kante type though. Perhaps Bentancur might have to think about adapting his game to Makakele's if he can't get back to the all action approach he had before the injuries.
 
muttley said:
I actually think Kante took the Makalele role to a new level. I couldn't see Sarr as a deep lying Makalele. I can see him as the all action Kante type though. Perhaps Bentancur might have to think about adapting his game to Makakele's if he can't get back to the all action approach he had before the injuries.
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Where does Bergvall play? Is he a 6 or an 8?
 
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