JANUARY WINDOW THREAD | Page 31 | Vital Football

JANUARY WINDOW THREAD

I forget which manager said it, but when teams do well the manager gets far too much credit, and when they do badly, they get far too much blame.

If world class players can't fecking put away their own egos and organise themselves properly, then that says as much about them as it does the manager ... and his assistant.
 
Roy Race said:
As I've touched on and as others have said we do it well at times and other times we don't, can't get it right all the time. Nobody does. If we were as bad as you suggest or didn't have a plan we'd be down the bottom of the league.

Just off the top of my head, the last match against Stevenage we played through their press quite a few times. On the times we didn't the crowd was moaning "get it forward" and that's all people seem to remember. We even played through United's press a number of times but the lack of movement up top and the quality of opposition meant we couldn't get up the pitch more.
Click to expand...

There are levels to the press, at the DW the opposition teams generally don't press as hard and rarely go man for man on our goal kicks, giving us a bit more space to work with. While when we are away the opposition is far more willing to commit the extra numbers to the press and go man for man and those are the times the lack of method show.
 
Frank Bullitt said:
Don't give a fuck about Bolton and Maloney had no need to tinker at all, the squad we have right now could have played like we did earlier in the season and probably would enjoy it more than the dross that prat of a manager as them playing now.

The sooner he goes the better!
Click to expand...
Really? If it’s that simple why aren’t you the Manager.
I think you are over simplifying a whole lot of things, probably because you just don’t know/understand them
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Forgive me if I am wrong KDZ, but I cannot think of one example of a team playing a system were they play out from the back getting it right 100% in a single season, and if I also remember correctly this is something you have mentioned previously.

It can take a number of transfer windows for a manager to bring the players he wants into a club and then to get them playing effectively on a regular basis.

We are at the start of that process and although you say that the squad is a strong one for the division, I am sorry but I just don't accept that you thought that prior to the season starting and seeing the talent that was being shipped into the club through free's and loans. The bare squad he inherited from last season, as Moonay said, would not have inspired such thoughts.

If you are able to give examples of sides that have got it right from the off with the players inherited and playing a similar style of play to that which SM is obviously aiming for, with the same restrictions on transfers then I will retract my opinion, however I doubt that you will be able to do so.

This is a work in progress and will take a number of transfer windows to achieve, as Skem Tic intimated "Bolton weren't built in a season", and neither will we.
Click to expand...

When we started to see the shape of the squad towards the end of preseason, saw a couple of preseason games and especially when the window shut I thought we had been left with a lot of players who had previously done very well in league 1 and recruited very well. I don't think we have the best squad in the division by any means but i thought and still do believe for this level this squad is strong.

As for getting it right 100% of the time and getting it right from the off. I don't think anyone was saying that was their expectation, and it certainly wasn't mine. I thought we were excellent back in August doing all of the little things that it took to make passing out of the back work - but unfortunately we're doing less of that rather than more and that's what worries me.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
There are levels to the press, at the DW the opposition teams generally don't press as hard and rarely go man for man on our goal kicks, giving us a bit more space to work with. While when we are away the opposition is far more willing to commit the extra numbers to the press and go man for man and those are the times the lack of method show.
Click to expand...
So now you're saying its only away where we can't play it out because we're getting pressed too much?
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
When we started to see the shape of the squad towards the end of preseason, saw a couple of preseason games and especially when the window shut I thought we had been left with a lot of players who had previously done very well in league 1 and recruited very well. I don't think we have the best squad in the division by any means but i thought and still do believe for this level this squad is strong.

As for getting it right 100% of the time and getting it right from the off. I don't think anyone was saying that was their expectation, and it certainly wasn't mine. I thought we were excellent back in August doing all of the little things that it took to make passing out of the back work - but unfortunately we're doing less of that rather than more and that's what worries me.
Click to expand...

I agree, when the squad started to take shape, as Maloney and Rioch got to grips with bringing in the players that they thought would suit the managers vision, it did start to look strong enough for a mid table finish with the possibility to push on and get closer to the play offs.

Prior to that we were left with the remnants of a disgruntled squad from the previous season, some of who would walk away from their contracts in the coming weeks and a couple of untested academy players which could hardly be described as a strong squad. It was only later revealed that we were under a transfer embargo of sorts and could not pay fees for players.

I think I am right in saying that most of us viewed the season as one were the side would initially struggle with the 8 point deduction and then push on into mid table before moving on in the next few windows.

Something that I believe you postulated at the time and appeared quite positive about.

What puzzles me is now that we seem to be achieving what was set out at the start of the season why have you changed tack and appear to have a negative view of the season to date.

Surely having seen the make up of the squad and its youthful nature it should have been obvious that this would provide inconsistency in results and performances throughout, what is essentially a stabilising season.
 
Made in Wigan said:
I’m not sure I’d use Warnock as the example here as someone who staves off relegation and then gets sacked. I’m pretty sure he holds the English record of achieving the most promotions.

A good manager adapts and tailors a system to the strengths of the players he has available. It is all well and good having a philosophy of how you want to play if you haven’t the personnel to play that way. Gary O’Neill was on Monday night football a few months ago. He spoke extremely well and was good to listen to. He explained he has his philosophy but accepts he could never implement it in as he wouldn’t win games so has to decide each week how far to diverge from it given the opponents, their strengths, weaknesses alongside that of his own team to get a result etc. It’s called compromise. Whilst our keeper and defenders seem relatively comfortable in receiving the ball for example from a goal kick and playing out that way those ahead of them don’t and as such the system doesn’t work overly well.
Click to expand...

Warnocks record of 8 promotions is indeed the record, however they were earlier in his career when, as with Maloney, he brought fresh ideas into the game. Of late he has been the turn to manager to get clubs out of trouble and has done this, as I suggested by "getting the best out of the existing players". He is then replaced by a new man with modern thinking and ideas ala Maloney.

Edit; Forgot to say that even though he had 8 promotions only one of them was as Champions
 
Last edited:
Roy Race said:
So now you're saying its only away where we can't play it out because we're getting pressed too much?
Click to expand...

How much the opposition press obviously directly correlates to how easy it is to play out from the back.

But if you want to play out from the back constantly you have to be able to work out a way to play through the most aggressive presses which we tend to face away. We tend to fare a bit better in home games where teams dont press as aggressively but we've still overall not been great at it most home games.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
How much the opposition press obviously directly correlates to how easy it is to play out from the back.

But if you want to play out from the back constantly you have to be able to work out a way to play through the most aggressive presses which we tend to face away. We tend to fare a bit better in home games where teams dont press as aggressively but we've still overall not been great at it most home games.
Click to expand...
To counter the high press you must have players asking for the ball and making space to receive...while Matt Smith was out no-one in our midfield showed for it with any conviction leading to either losing possession or lumping it 50 yards to also lose possession.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Warnocks record of 8 promotions is indeed the record, however they were earlier in his career when, as with Maloney, he brought fresh ideas into the game. Of late he has been the turn to manager to get clubs out of trouble and has done this, as I suggested by "getting the best out of the existing players". He is then replaced by a new man with modern thinking and ideas ala Maloney.

Edit; Forgot to say that even though he had 8 promotions only one of them was as Champions
Click to expand...

So effectively you are saying he is a very good manager in that he holds the record for getting teams promoted and has a reputation for coming into clubs and keeping them up. The clubs he has subsequently left and who brought in a modern manager don’t do any better and also subsequently get sacked.
 
Lee Evans has left Ipswich by mutual consent. But he's currently recovering from injury and will finish his rehab there before being able to sign for someone on a free before the end of the season.

Rioch obviously knows him, Evans knows the club and he seems a Maloney type player. In a few months if he is fit it wouldn't shock me if he turns up here. But depends on who else shows an interest.
 
Last edited:
Frank Bullitt said:
Looks like we are subbing his wages, don't see the point in letting him go myself.

View attachment 71357
Click to expand...

Wykes wages were supposedly around 10k a week. We weren't getting anything out of him at this point, so we probably thought even if we are paying something like 20% towards it is still 80% saved.

Those percentages are guesses plucked out of the air but it's reasonable to assume that the club could be saving 100k or more.
 
Kenny Morris said:
But the thing is when did Wyke and Lang last score or even have a decent game? So whilst we may look weaker on paper, in reality we are not really. We have the new QPR guy and time for Chris Sze to show us what he can do
Click to expand...
Their lack of scoring is down to this manager. Both have scored plenty goals in their careers but stop scoring under this mon miserable boring crap tactics.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.