4 Players Depart the Squad | Page 2 | Vital Football

4 Players Depart the Squad

Luke Imp said:
Agree with all that, Vale reminded me a little of Liam Cullen at times.

EDIT - And a Plange impact.
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Yeah agreed. When I read about Sonny Perkins (obviously not coming having played for two clubs) I wondered if he'd be a similar type... Not rapid or a wide option who is going to beat a full back. Not big or a focal point, not a handful for defenders and also not someone you can play into to hold it up. Not really a creative option at 10 / 10s seem a bit dead now anyway in the old, playmaker type sense and you'd want someone who works really hard).

I'm wary of some of these young strikers now (Vale, Plange, Cullen even Morton or Tyreece John-Jules). I know Cullen and TJJ scored buckets at youth levels but their attributes have not seemed well suited for us. It might be unfair on Cullen who has played in the Championship a little bit more since but clearly it didn't work here.

Maybe some of those are just having bodies at the club, but they probably need very specific circumstances to thrive and that hasn't been the way we've played recently. I appreciate many of these are from the bench but just totting it up we're talking 5 league goals from a total of 76 appearances with those I've mentioned above. I imagine none are costly but when we've had to rely on some of them for a bit / been so poor attacking wise I wonder if they've really been worth being here at all.

I wonder if the talent ID could be better (again not saying it's easy!) in terms of what attributes these young forwards offer - just writing this made me think of your post the other day about having sort of deadwood players/punts that don't come off. I feel like there must be some players out there who are more of a handful than what we've had.
 
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johnolbe said:
Unless he agrees to it we would have to pay it all because that was the contract both parties agreed to. He would only agree to a part payment if he signed for another club who agreed to pay part of his wages.
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Yes there would have to be an agreement. He wouldn't have to necessarily find another club.He would be a free agent and wouldn't have to turn up for training with City as part of his contract.
 
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Merthyr Imp said:
Nlundulu and Soule also.
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Honestly forgot about Soule (now plays for Weston-super-Mare via Alvechurch!)
Nlundulu feels a tiny bit different as at least he has some raw attributes (quick, strong) even if didn't know how to use them and seems to be about a 1 in 5 or 6 striker (!)

But in terms of number 9s it's not a position we've had much success in with loans of sort of non-descript loan from up the divisions. And at times it has been costly in terms of performances on the pitch as we've had to rely on them due to other injuries. We were actually waiting for Vale to get fit this season as we were so desperate for a striker and then it didn't take long to realise that wasn't the answer, Plange got quite a lot of mins last season, even Morton in the playoff season needed to be used because Hopper got knocks/wasn't fit and the drop off was immense.
 
I said at the time that Vale was a Plange Mk2 and sadly I was right. Astounding what dross keeps getting contracts in Championship and Prem sides' U23 squads.
 
Stating the obvious I think these loan players would have performed better coming into a side with already a good attacking threat and coming on for 30 minutes when we’re already a couple of goals up, compared to bring expected to carry the load of a fairly blunt attack.
 
There’s also our position in the queue to factor in. Maybe we sometimes get them a year too early. But we have to take a risk sometimes with first loans in order to jump the queue, to a degree.

If we wait until nlundulu for instance has had his first loan experience (Cheltenham) we are in competition with Bolton (who actually bought him). if we waited for Tjj to have first loan experience (Doncaster) we would then be competing for his signing with Blackpool ipswich and now derby.

morton had l2 experience, so we were a higher up the queue as a loan option - that one didn’t work largely due to that freak injury he got.

it worked with bnc (aware the theme of discussion was strikers) and rogers. Oh for more of that kind of hit.
 
nlondonimp said:
There’s also our position in the queue to factor in. Maybe we sometimes get them a year too early. But we have to take a risk sometimes with first loans in order to jump the queue, to a degree.

If we wait until nlundulu for instance has had his first loan experience (Cheltenham) we are in competition with Bolton (who actually bought him). if we waited for Tjj to have first loan experience (Doncaster) we would then be competing for his signing with Blackpool ipswich and now derby.

morton had l2 experience, so we were a higher up the queue as a loan option - that one didn’t work largely due to that freak injury he got.

it worked with bnc (aware the theme of discussion was strikers) and rogers. Oh for more of that kind of hit.
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I wondered if it's a slightly positional thing though. Goalkeeper loans, great - so many of them about, hoovered up by top clubs and are then 3rd, 4th choice. A wingback with raw athleticism who's a bit raw, yeah maybe... players on the periphery/wide players who are technically good, yeah might work... and obviously someone like Johnson who combined both raw athleticism and technical prowess (I appreciate 1 loan in a 1000...), fantastic.

But I feel like a 5 ft 9 striker who has scored a few goals at youth level but isn't incredibly fast, isn't strong, isn't good in the air... and then you send him to go and play against Sean Raggett and Regan Poole or whoever they're going to get eaten alive unless they are absolutely unbelievable footballers, and the ones we have had aren't really. I appreciate we can't go and sign every player on 5 grand a week and bulking our squad out with Jordan Rhodes, Colby Bishop or Alfie May... but I'm also not sure it's very good that a few times now we've been reliant on players who seem a bit set up to fail. Feels like there is a middle ground.
 
Rasenimp said:
I wondered if it's a slightly positional thing though. Goalkeeper loans, great - so many of them about, hoovered up by top clubs and are then 3rd, 4th choice. A wingback with raw athleticism who's a bit raw, yeah maybe... players on the periphery/wide players who are technically good, yeah might work... and obviously someone like Johnson who combined both raw athleticism and technical prowess (I appreciate 1 loan in a 1000...), fantastic.

But I feel like a 5 ft 9 striker who has scored a few goals at youth level but isn't incredibly fast, isn't strong, isn't good in the air... and then you send him to go and play against Sean Raggett and Regan Poole or whoever they're going to get eaten alive unless they are absolutely unbelievable footballers, and the ones we have had aren't really. I appreciate we can't go and sign every player on 5 grand a week and bulking our squad out with Jordan Rhodes, Colby Bishop or Alfie May... but I'm also not sure it's very good that a few times now we've been reliant on players who seem a bit set up to fail. Feels like there is a middle ground.
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Hopefully the middle ground is draper. (Even better than a loan, as he is from our academy) A bit over 5’9, might not be incredibly quick. But looks strong and reasonably good in the air. We are about to find out how he does against raggett-types

(side issue, every time I see Walsall highlights, their 8 Hutchinson - also an ex derby youth - looks very good.)
 
Jules said:
You post as if every single signing we make should be perfect. If only it was that simple...
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Of course I don't expect them to be perfect, but if they've been watched on several occasions you think that they would be suitable for the system we want to play.
Nlunudu, Whittaker, Cullen, Plange, John-Jules and now Vale have all struggled at our club.
Not easy I know young lads probably on their loan away from the parent club.
Just odd/worrying none have gone to plan.
Whittaker and Cullen are doing really now maybe it made them who knows?
 
sedgleyimp said:
No surprise with any there. Vale been a bit unlucky being asked to play in a role he wasn't really suited to. Mido was clearly just a stop-gap though perhaps one who might have been used a bit more. The other two were signposted as leaving a while back.
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Get the feeling that Vale is a little bit like Cullen and Whittaker , who seem to be having reasonable times at Swansea and Plymouth respectively. Got to give the strikers goal scoring opportunities, not something that has been in abundance for anyone up front so far.
 
Seemed like Donnery was going be one to watch based on last season, but obviously not worked out. Seems like he was playing for other teams recently, including Stoke. Wonder if he will be another Tim Akinola and move to higher league team or drift into non-league?
 
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