Sack Race

[LancsGordoRoad]

Very true, but I wonder whether anyone agreeing to a Head Coach role realises that it makes them by far the most vulnerable in the food chain.

Any Director of Football or Recruitment team could claim that they have supplied the best available players and that the problem is that they are not being coached properly and, of course, the DOF will have the owner's ear.

Mowbray should have no problem obtaining another post as his previous record when he was described as a manager is pretty good and Sunderland are 9th in the Championship.

Also, either his contract will be paid off or he will be kept on the club's pay roll until the end of his contact like NH is doing so far.

It does make you whether things may be different when we hit our next indifferent run of results or can not fix the away form. If BG expresses displeasure he may question why neither manager nor head coach approaches have worked and have more questions for KJ.

Maybe not, and the head coach will pay the price again.

They`d be daft if they failed to recognise that situation. Football has become even more business orientated, so there should be no surprise that more self-protection measures have crept in at higher management echelons and that the smelly stuff still runs downhill.

 

[NWBluesFan]

Agree with Lancs.

Job security for DoF is pretty good, all considered. Making the right appointment there is crucial.

I think as fans, we need to be more aware of it. For example,it's my belief that Harris realised we couldn't win games through sheer attacking prowess, or by having the personnel to move the ball quickly on the deck, which is why he resorted to direct/defensively structured tactics. Path of least resistance to success. To me, while not ideal - of course - some of the questions need to be asked of Andy Hessenthaler who had all year, as his one raison d'etre, to plan for a quality striker in the summer...

 

[nibbles]

some of the questions need to be asked of Andy Hessenthaler who had all year, as his one raison d'etre, to plan for a quality striker in the summer...

Asked by whom?

It’s incorrect that Hess’ whole raison d’etre was to plan for a quality striker. Far more to his role than signing a striker.

Those in power at the club will have an understanding of

a) Hess’ exact role, and what he has been tasked with doing

b) the players (including strikers) he has recommended we sign.

Whether we go ahead and actually sign the players Hess puts forward is out of his control.

 

[NWBluesFan]

Asked by whom?

It’s incorrect that Hess’ whole raison d’etre was to plan for a quality striker. Far more to his role than signing a striker.

Those in power at the club will have an understanding of

a) Hess’ exact role, and what he has been tasked with doing

b) the players (including strikers) he has recommended we sign.

Whether we go ahead and actually sign the players Hess puts forward is out of his control.

Raison d'etre as in, that's his job role in exclusivity, to recruit. If he's not part of the process of acquisition, he's just a scout. I know many scouts and I don't believe his job title matches that, unless it's just a job for the boys.

You're entitled to disagree of course, but I suspect I won't be the only Gills fan who feel he did not deliver on that - especially as he put it in the press that it was a top priority. Heck, he mocked Ayr and indicated Dipo Akinyemi wasn't up to scratch but his form in the NL aready suggests otherwise. Hess had 6 months post 31 Jan to identify and put in wheels the process of signing a good striker or two, and to have proper, robust contingency.

My point simply, that Hess, KJ, etc must bear some of the blame for missing the key ingredient on the shopping list when it's was obvious before and is even clearer now in December because that's their job.

 

[nibbles]

Raison d'etre as in, that's his job role in exclusivity, to recruit.

I believe his role is exclusively in relation to recruitment but I would expect Kenny has a far bigger role when it comes to negotiations.

Hess had 6 months post 31 Jan to identify and put in wheels the process of signing a good striker or two, and to have proper, robust contingency.

Yes. Other than May and the players we signed we don’t know who Hess put forward to Kenny as strikers we should pursue. Harris hinted that more than one of our striker targets had ended up in L1

I’m not sure taking ‘blame’ is appropriate. Yes, we could do with an obvious goalscorer but our dealings in the most recent transfer window don’t scream failure and a need to point the blame somewhere.

Three windows is the accepted timeframe to build a well rounded squad. I think we’re in a good place after two and on course.

There were only so many strikers who would have ticked the relevant boxes and been good enough for what we’re trying to achieve. Any that ticked those boxes would have been both in demand and expensive. Sometimes you have to wait for the right signings at the right price. It’s not an exact science and without knowing the exact remit of Hess’ role and exactly who he put forward it’s simply guesswork to suggest he should be shoulder some sort of blame for something.

 

[PhilK66]

A while ago I think a stat was posted on here that indicated that on average 40% of signings in the EFL are deemed to have been unsuccessful.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

I believe his role is exclusively in relation to recruitment but I would expect Kenny has a far bigger role when it comes to negotiations.

KJ is clearly 2IC at GFC and is, in effect, Hess`s boss.

They are both open to criticism by fans if, as a club, we fail to recruit commensurate to our aim and ambition. My belief is that AH (& KJ) did a weak job in failing to recruit to the most important position on the team - strikers/forwards - the guys that bag most of the goals on promotion winning teams and enable coaches extra set-up options. Hess & KJ had plenty of time to address the situation but for some reason were unable to deliver.

I`ll re-think my position and hold my hands up if, during the January transfer window, we deem it unnecessary to look any further than our current batch of forwards and our goals-for column sees a substantial increase.

On a more positive note, should we recruit suitable reinforcement in January, there will still be time for us to mount a serious promotion challenge. UTG

 

[NWBluesFan]

KJ is clearly 2IC at GFC and is, in effect, Hess`s boss.

They are both open to criticism by fans if, as a club, we fail to recruit commensurate to our aim and ambition. My belief is that AH (& KJ) did a weak job in failing to recruit to the most important position on the team - strikers/forwards - the guys that bag most of the goals on promotion winning teams and enable coaches extra set-up options. Hess & KJ had plenty of time to address the situation but for some reason were unable to deliver.

I`ll re-think my position and hold my hands up if, during the January transfer window, we deem it unnecessary to look any further than our current batch of forwards and our goals-for column sees a substantial increase.

On a more positive note, should we recruit suitable reinforcement in January, there will still be time for us to mount a serious promotion challenge. UTG

Agreed in entirety!

I’m not sure taking ‘blame’ is appropriate. Yes, we could do with an obvious goalscorer but our dealings in the most recent transfer window don’t scream failure and a need to point the blame somewhere.

-------------
'Brad Galinson expects promotion'
8th June 2023
-------------

Exclusive: Sit Down With Gillingham’s Andy Hessenthaler
March 30th 2023

AP: “What’s the main position we need in the summer?”

AH: “I think we need to improve in a few areas, it’s not rocket science we need competition for places, I think we need a natural goal scorer.”
-------------

I mean, we can talk about ambiguity but I don't see it. It was front and centre all summer.

Our strikers (Bonne, Nadeson, Nichols) have a combined 6 league goals in 20 league games. We ae currently the lowest total goals for team in League 2.

I'm open-minded, always, but it'll take a lot for anyone convince me this isn't at least a part the failure of recruitment when it's that clearly laid out by the people who set the standard.

Like Lancs, I think we still need a top striker in January or that ambition of BG won't happen.

 

[nibbles]

I mean, we can talk about ambiguity but I don't see it. It was front and centre all summer.

Who’s talking about ambiguity? Nobody’s denying the need for a natural / prolific goalscorer.

Without knowing exactly who Hess put forward to Kenny, what the demands of those players were and what competition we faced to sign them, you’re blindly pointing the finger of blame.

We’ve come a long way in two windows. As Brad says the third window is more focussed on quality in a few areas.

Our strikers (Bonne, Nadeson, Nichols) have a combined 6 league goals in 20 league games. We ae currently the lowest total goals for team in League 2.

How many goals would a natural goalscorer have had playing in this side under Harris, Millen and now Clemence?

 

[NWBluesFan]

Who’s talking about ambiguity?

1. "It’s not an exact science and without knowing the exact remit of Hess’ role and exactly who he put forward it’s simply guesswork to suggest he should be shoulder some sort of blame for something"
2. AH - Director of Recruitment in March - "We need a natural goalscorer."
2. Also Hess, from the same article: 'As a role, there’s pressure because we’ve got to find the right players for the club'
3. Gillingham on December 5th - lowest goalscorers in L2.

I mean... I don't know how anyone could make that much clearer.
There's a lot of word soup going on to justify he (and KJ) doesn't need to own some of this.

 

[nibbles]

I mean... I don't know how anyone could make that much clearer.
There's a lot of word soup going on to justify he (and KJ) doesn't need to own some of this.

More guess work from you.

What is the exact remit of Hess’ role beyond finding players for the club to sign?

Which players did Hess put forward for us to sign?

If you don’t know the answers to both these questions then you’re aimlessly pointing that finger.

 

[NWBluesFan]

More guess work from you.

What is the exact remit of Hess’ role beyond finding players for the club to sign?

Which players did Hess put forward for us to sign?

If you don’t know the answers to both these questions then you’re aimlessly pointing that finger.

Guess work ...based on his known job title and the work he states, on record, that he does for the club. Where he states his main goal clearly and then, by most reasonable metrics, can be proven not to have achieved it.

Uhh. I'll proudly take your charge of being an 'amateur sleuth' on this one. Rather that than falling foul of some idiosyncratic rater bias...

 

[GillsBluenose]

I know it is early days with SC but, so far, apart from an addition of spells of keep-ball, the pattern and team failings seem to be the same as under NH.

And it is not just a striker with a good shots v goals ratio, which is arguably all Bonne lacks, that is lacking.

What about:
1. Pace
2. Leadership
3. Away form, and
4. Team consistency to the extent that it seems like after every win, comments are that everybody played well and we were great, and when we lose nobody played well and we were awful.

There is definitely something wrong with the mental approach and toughness of this team, shown particularly when Ehmer and Hawkins have been missing, and even if Clemence is a much better coach than Harris, I am sceptical about how much anybody can change that.

If I am right and we do not improve on these deficiencies, will the coach pay the price again or will the role of the recruitment team be held to account?

 

[nibbles]

Where he states his main goal clearly and then, by most reasonable metrics, can be proven not to have achieved it.

I think the most reasonable metric to judge someone whose job it is to find players is……

…..the players they find

Only those with access to that information can judge.

If a winger continually sets up good chances for a striker who heads them over the bar is he a poor winger?

Clearly as a whole we haven’t signed anyone who has shown they are a natural goalscorer (yet - I haven’t written off Bonne who has 4 in his last ten that he’s played more than half the game).

It’s easy to label our transfer dealings as a failure without that player but I’d rather the club keep their powder dry and wait for the right deal than waste money.

Let’s see what January brings.

 

[The Roone]

Hess can put forward the names of players he thinks we need, but if those players don't want to sign for us, how can Hess be to blame. Crawley apart, geography is against us if other clubs want the same player. Unless the name of every player Hess recommends is published there is little evidence of how he is doing.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

If there's discontent over recruitment, it's more than reasonable to point a finger, albeit a polite one, at the Head of Recruitment. The clue is in the job title.

 

[LockdownLife]

As per usual, what strikers were signed by clubs with similar finances over summer?

You can't sign the impossible or what doesn't exist.

This endless moaning culture is getting f****** tedious.

 

[Captainreblue]

The fact we didn't get what we needed through the door could be down to any number of reasons. Without knowing the details it's impossible to point the finger at any individual.

Collectively with hindsight it doesn't look great but whether that's down to AH, KJ, BG or PS, a player, a players agent on AN Other , who knows.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

As per usual, what strikers were signed by clubs with similar finances over summer?

You can't sign the impossible or what doesn't exist.

This endless moaning culture is getting f****** tedious.

Neither you nor I know the level of our finances and i`m not sure if you`re implying i`m endlessly moaning.

Either way, even loyal supporting fans like me are entitled to have a view on the calibre of our recruitment - whilst happy with the majority of signings I remain unconvinced that we couldn`t have done better when it comes to strikers. That`s my view. It`s a fact that AH is Head of Recruitment so i`ll politely say i`m disappointed with the lack of success in that position.


If we find it necessary to change our forward options in January it will show that i`m not the only one who thinks that way.

This is a forum for opinions - some you might like some you might not.

 

[nibbles]

If there's discontent over recruitment, it's more than reasonable to point a finger, albeit a polite one, at the Head of Recruitment. The clue is in the job title.

I think it would be more prudent to think more of the job description and how this interacts with the other moving parts both at GFC and externally than to simply read the job title.

I get that it’s human nature to want to point a finger when not everything goes one’s way. I just find it a bit toxic personally, especially when it’s based not on fact but guesswork.