Next seasons budget | Vital Football

Next seasons budget

king_dezeeuw06

Vital Football Legend
I was thinking about the plan is to only spend 2m more than we have in revenue and had a look at what that means looking at our L1 accounts. I'm no expert at reading accounts and the way different clubs do them are not exactly the same, so happy to be corrected on any of this if i've misread or misunderstood.

Last seasons we brought in 8m before you accounted for any player sales. So i think it's reasonable to assume we'll have about 8m revenue again in L1. So that means our budget will be around 10m based on what the ownership said.

The total cost of running the club was 18m, according to the meeting we just have only 7m of that is player salary, leaving 5m non player salary. Leaving 5m in other costs. We have a total of 241 staff.

If we assume the cost of non playing staff and other costs are going to be similar, the issue is those 2 things cost 10m in L1 last time. Which would max out the potential 10m budget before we pay a single player.

I had a look at other clubs - Rotherham had a 6m wage bill (not stated how much was players) and 3m general admin costs with 161 employees. So our non playing staff wage bill in nearly as much as Rotherham's whole wage budget and we are spending significantly more in running costs.

Examining the details a bit more you see that Rotherham have 80 less employees than us, but we have roughly similar number across players, coaching, matchday staff but the big difference was they only have 4 'admin or other' while we have 58 and that is what seems really strange considering we are probably a similar sized club.

I also had a look at Portsmouth accounts their wage bill being 8m and admin costs of 4m. They have just 138 staff (103 less than us) but they don't break down their numbers into many sub categories to do a direct comparison like we could with Rotherham. Again you'd say they are probably a similar sized club.

Sunderland's latest accounts dont seem to have been published yet, but looking at the year prior when they were still in L1, their wage bill was 13m, they had 196 employees, they don't break their numbers down as clearly as us but it is still 45 less than us despite them being a bigger club.

We appear to have an extremely high non playing staff wage bill which is possibly down to having a lot more employees than the other clubs do. Considering we are not a particularly big club - i really don't know how we've got so many more employees than clubs at the same level.

To make the 2m more than income approach work we are going to probably need to be cutting costs across the board as even slashing the player wage bill to more like their 3m original plan, we are still going to need to cut something like 3m in non playing staff and operating costs compared to the last time we were in L1 to get there. So it seems like a lot of things off the pitch will need to be changed as well to try and meet the new budget target.
 
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This is the reason i asked about the academy yesterday going forward. They must have a lot of staff. The menial sounding staff will all be needed. The canteen staff, the kit man, receptionists, ticket sellers etc, the list goes on. I don't trust a word that was said the other night and would not be surprised one bit to see the academy shut down. if anybody can point me to where else the club can make significant savings then i am all ears (well, eyes)
 
Where are you getting that £8m revenue figure from? L1 television revenue/PL solidarity payments will add up to around £2m. Season ticket sales accounted for another £2m last time out, but will be significantly down next season following relegation/bad untrustworthy owners.. As it stands, we bring in next to nothing in club sponsorships (shirt, stadium etc) and the poppycorn rent we get from the gravy shaggers is wiped out by the stadium business rates. Meanwhile we continue not to utilise the ground for non-sport events such as concerts.

Our revenue income next season, unless we go on a big cup run, sell a player for multi millions, or someone signs Antonee Robinson for £40m is likely to be no more than £5m. To say lots of cuts will need to be made to staff (on and off the pitch) would be an understatement.

To put it into perspective, Wrexham released their financial figures for 21/22 today, they turned over just under £6m! That's without the money generated from their Disney documentary, which came into play the following year, so next year their turnover will be even bigger. Now I respect that they have brilliant owners with the contacts and clout which make sponsorship very easy to obtain. But for a National League club to turnover more cash than us should be a damning indication as to how poorly we've been run off the pitch commercially.

This is the reason i asked about the academy yesterday going forward. They must have a lot of staff. The menial sounding staff will all be needed. The canteen staff, the kit man, receptionists, ticket sellers etc, the list goes on. I don't trust a word that was said the other night and would not be surprised one bit to see the academy shut down. if anybody can point me to where else the club can make significant savings then i am all ears (well, eyes)
Agree with this. The brutal fact is that an academy of our size is unsustainable with our current turnover. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we move to the B Team model.
 
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I was thinking about the plan is to only spend 2m more than we have in revenue and had a look at what that means looking at our L1 accounts. I'm no expert at reading accounts and the way different clubs do them are not exactly the same, so happy to be corrected on any of this if i've misread or misunderstood.

Last seasons we brought in 8m before you accounted for any player sales. So i think it's reasonable to assume we'll have about 8m revenue again in L1. So that means our budget will be around 10m based on what the ownership said.

The total cost of running the club was 18m, according to the meeting we just have only 7m of that is player salary, leaving 5m non player salary. Leaving 5m in other costs. We have a total of 241 staff.

If we assume the cost of non playing staff and other costs are going to be similar, the issue is those 2 things cost 10m in L1 last time. Which would max out the potential 10m budget before we pay a single player.

I had a look at other clubs - Rotherham had a 6m wage bill (not stated how much was players) and 3m general admin costs with 161 employees. So our non playing staff wage bill in nearly as much as Rotherham's whole wage budget and we are spending significantly more in running costs.

Examining the details a bit more you see that Rotherham have 80 less employees than us, but we have roughly similar number across players, coaching, matchday staff but the big difference was they only have 4 'admin or other' while we have 58 and that is what seems really strange considering we are probably a similar sized club.

I also had a look at Portsmouth accounts their wage bill being 8m and admin costs of 4m. They have just 138 staff (103 less than us) but they don't break down their numbers into many sub categories to do a direct comparison like we could with Rotherham. Again you'd say they are probably a similar sized club.

Sunderland's latest accounts dont seem to have been published yet, but looking at the year prior when they were still in L1, their wage bill was 13m, they had 196 employees, they don't break their numbers down as clearly as us but it is still 45 less than us despite them being a bigger club.

We appear to have an extremely high non playing staff wage bill which is possibly down to having a lot more employees than the other clubs do. Considering we are not a particularly big club - i really don't know how we've got so many more employees than clubs at the same level.

To make the 2m more than income approach work we are going to probably need to be cutting costs across the board as even slashing the player wage bill to more like their 3m original plan, we are still going to need to cut something like 3m in non playing staff and operating costs compared to the last time we were in L1 to get there. So it seems like a lot of things off the pitch will need to be changed as well to try and meet the new budget target.


Forgive me if I'm getting mixed up, but wasn't it up to 2 million more than the budget for next season not the income
 
Where are you getting that £8m revenue figure from?

Accounts published on companies house:

8.3m total:
2.2m from EFL
2.2 from ticket sales
1.1 Commerical and sponsorship
3m from academy grants, stadium hire, streaming services, retail etc.
 
According to those accounts the wage bill was £13 million. So if the £7 million players wages is to be believed that is £6 million on non players wages. That doesn't seem right, a lot of them will be stewards, cleaners and match day staff. Ok, Brannigan was allegedly on £250k but still seems too much to me
 
Frankel doesn't always take everything in though OLFE. When he asked a similar question yesterday, I told him that he'd already been given the answer in the accounts of the meeting.

Supporting what you've said there OLFE, here's more info which he'll ignore.

A clue Frankel ... 2 little ducks ...

https://find-and-update.company-inf...c1NmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0


Ha, there he goes again. You just can't help yourself can you. Straight in with the revolver. It wasn't ignored, it was just irrelevant in the context of what i asked because you didn't give the answer, you post links to things like accounts, of which i am by no means an accountant but can see that the bare figure is just academy players and coaches. I asked did anybody know how much it was to run the academy. Those numbers are just wages, 100k for players and academy coaching and medical staff. There are gardeners/landscapers, training equipment, building maintenance, canteen staff, cleaners, security, gas and electricity costs etc etc. just basing what it costs to run just on salaries of the immediate staff involved is a false way of looking at it. That number will be much higher in reality. I await your comeback though to prove that you are right even though you are wrong.

A clue Moonay, the answer lies somewhere else in the accounts.
 
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Ha, there he goes again. You just can't help yourself can you. Straight in with the revolver. It wasn't ignored, it was just irrelevant in the context of what i asked because you didn't give the answer, you post links to things like accounts, of which i am by no means an accountant but can see that the bare figure is just academy players and coaches. I asked did anybody know how much it was to run the academy. Those numbers are just wages, 100k for players and academy coaching and medical staff. There are gardeners/landscapers, training equipment, building maintenance, canteen staff, cleaners, security, gas and electricity costs etc etc. just basing what it costs to run just on salaries of the immediate staff involved is a false way of looking at it. That number will be much higher in reality. I await your comeback though to prove that you are right even though you are wrong.

You've suggested it might be at risk. Showing that it has independent funding is surely pertinent.

"Shut down" ! :slap: I know you want to find reasons to keep on looking on the dark side, but bloody hell, it must be hard work digging around all the time.
 
Was reading a post about Watford and there Academy. Running a category 1. Needs a min investment of 2.5 million and so many full time employees. But a category 3 minimum investment. 500k. Plus most will be part time staff. And they are thinking of cutting back.
 
This is the reason i asked about the academy yesterday going forward. They must have a lot of staff. The menial sounding staff will all be needed. The canteen staff, the kit man, receptionists, ticket sellers etc, the list goes on. I don't trust a word that was said the other night and would not be surprised one bit to see the academy shut down. if anybody can point me to where else the club can make significant savings then i am all ears (well, eyes)

Every club has a youth set up and the staff that goes with it and we get a lot of money towards that.

Our issues seems to be we have a huge number of staff more than other clubs despite not seeming to have any reason to.
 
The idea of bringing though academy players year after year is great. Crewe did it for years but achieved fuck all themselves though. Someone needs to go in and work out the figures involved for everything and give us some direction that ensures we’re sustainable. Lang and Aasgard have done so well coming through but it looks like they may only be good League 1 players. We have high hopes for Charlie Hughes but I think his lack of pace could mean he won’t play at the top level.

We brought in some players recently who have progressed to play at the top level (Robinson and Moore) and we’d have made a massive profit but for admin. I’d hope we could do a bit of both in terms of brining players through and recruiting well, I don’t think we can rely on one approach bringing success. Last year proved having experience can bring success but you need to be ready to evolve very quickly. It’ll be interesting to see who stays next season and which players we’re able to sign, one thing I think we do need is some pace and energy bringing into the squad.
 
The idea of bringing though academy players year after year is great. Crewe did it for years but achieved fuck all themselves though. Someone needs to go in and work out the figures involved for everything and give us some direction that ensures we’re sustainable. Lang and Aasgard have done so well coming through but it looks like they may only be good League 1 players. We have high hopes for Charlie Hughes but I think his lack of pace could mean he won’t play at the top level.

We brought in some players recently who have progressed to play at the top level (Robinson and Moore) and we’d have made a massive profit but for admin. I’d hope we could do a bit of both in terms of brining players through and recruiting well, I don’t think we can rely on one approach bringing success. Last year proved having experience can bring success but you need to be ready to evolve very quickly. It’ll be interesting to see who stays next season and which players we’re able to sign, one thing I think we do need is some pace and energy bringing into the squad.
Best post yet someone who clearly knows what he’s talking about
 
The idea of bringing though academy players year after year is great. Crewe did it for years but achieved fuck all themselves though. Someone needs to go in and work out the figures involved for everything and give us some direction that ensures we’re sustainable. Lang and Aasgard have done so well coming through but it looks like they may only be good League 1 players. We have high hopes for Charlie Hughes but I think his lack of pace could mean he won’t play at the top level.

We brought in some players recently who have progressed to play at the top level (Robinson and Moore) and we’d have made a massive profit but for admin. I’d hope we could do a bit of both in terms of brining players through and recruiting well, I don’t think we can rely on one approach bringing success. Last year proved having experience can bring success but you need to be ready to evolve very quickly. It’ll be interesting to see who stays next season and which players we’re able to sign, one thing I think we do need is some pace and energy bringing into the squad.
Yep, good post Th10. Undoubtedly, the answer will be a happy combination of the two ... in fact, let's not forget the other (third) key element of the experienced pro, pulling the strings. De Zeeuw, Kavanagh, McClean (last season) ... there's room for a cunning old pro. 😉
 
Every club has a youth set up and the staff that goes with it and we get a lot of money towards that.

Our issues seems to be we have a huge number of staff more than other clubs despite not seeming to have any reason to.
Just seen an advert today for a 'Big Screen Operator' for Wigan Athletic.