Sunderland (H) | Page 11 | Vital Football

Sunderland (H)

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Ooohaaahdonniepage said:
92 points and scored the most goals in the division. Bloody rubbish Leam.
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Just try answering the points raised ….the fact we finished top obviously isn’t in dispute ….that we were increasingly ineffective over the last 10/12 games shouldn’t be either….do you dispute that ?….that we were progressively poor at home and that trend continued in spades into this season ….where the football was kick and rush (minus the rush) you must have surely seen all that ?

I think the appointment of KT was a huge gamble on an untested manager who wants to implement a different style of football with a very limited and injury hit squad ….what we are seeing now was probably inevitable to some extent …but the club had to try something ….

I’ve been going for 55 years and this season had become one of those few spells where I was attending without looking forward to the game where normally I’m getting giddy a couple of days prior.
I‘m pissed off with the result but I won’t abandon hope unless we haven’t turned a corner after he’s had a few more winnable games and brought in a few of his own players.

Admittedly It’s hope rather than expectation but I don’t see any point whatsoever in using every defeat on which to base a ‘they done Leam wrong’ rant …
Right or wrong he’s gone and nothing is going to change that, we have to get on with it.
 
moonay said:
Bloody hell, that was a good night's sleep. Woke up with the disappointment of another loss, but at least my wrists are free of blemishes.

With Whatmough, Kerr, REG, and Pearce all unavailable, and young Hughes (who I really wanted to see again at this level) getting clobbered so early on, I'm not really sure of what people expected from a makeshift defence. Better than they saw I suppose ... they should maybe read that 12th Man lead submission.

I though that when Espinoza Shinnie came on we might have looked a little more solid, or creative, or organised, but no, it wasn't to be.

Listen chaps, we can all spout off as much as we want, but that'll have as much effect as a Max Power pointed finger.

Accept we should have had a bigger window in the summer. Accept that Leam should maybe have shown a little less loyalty (to players) and a little more "sin miedo". Accept that the appointment of Kolo is a massive gamble, and though it's not currently looking like paying out, it's still a possibility. Accept that the owners are (hopefully) in this for the long run, have made mistakes, and are (hopefully) going to sort them. Most of all, accept this is Wigan Athletic, and "mid table mediocrity" was never an option.

Shit or bust ... and we're not bust yet.
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👏👏👏👏👏....well said
 
Zeb2 said:
Really ? . ….We started off at a gallop but from March onward we were laboured and dreary to watch, especially at home …and we won the league (and only secured promotion) on the last day of the season … we ended up limping over a line we should have crossed weeks earlier…and that trend at home continued into this season.
You could argue that LR wasn’t sufficiently backed in the Summer but you could also say that players he had brought in for the most part couldn't get a game …and that was another feature that also crossed over in to this season.
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This

The warning signs for this season were there at the end of last season when we crept over the line and actually after the losses vs Portsmouth and Cambridge were reliant on likes of Rotherham and MK Dons slipping up. Admittedly the condensed nature of the calendar with loads of Saturday/Wednesday games for 3 months in a row probably didnt help but id say it was a warning sign, a sign we needed to heed in the summer, we didnt do that and we are now paying the price for it.

Agree on observation about Richardson above, yes he needed more backing but its also worth noting that some of the new signings he brought in havent played. Given the late nature of our recruitment, id argue the likes of Edmonds Green, Fletcher and Scully were all panic buys. Nonetheless, when results and performances arent going well, its obvious continuing to play last season's starters who are not doing it and not changing up and trying different things with some of these new players is not a good look for Richardson. I was still in favour of Richardson staying btw, but my support was wavering and you were able to see the warning signs develop.

Fletcher is hopefully someone now we will give a run of games to as i thought he showed some good glimpses last night and has proven useful at this level before with Middlesbrough. He had played 66 minutes only as a sub until last night, he isnt fully match fit and up to match sharpness. So not only are we hoping for him to come in now and help us we are also now having to potentially waste the next few games in terms of how effective he can be. He needs to get up to full match sharpness and thus might be a few games before we see him at his best for us.

Annoyingly too, the reported rumours we subsidised more of of Fletcher's wages than Rotherham did, hence why he came here over Rotherham. His lack of minutes means not only have we wasted a player who could have been useful for us in earlier games, it also makes you query could those wages have been spent on a free agent with plentiful Championship experience available in the summer. A player who could have been brought in during pre season and had a few friendlies to get him up to speed for the start of the season.

The whole season has been a mess and our home form will probably be the factor in us getting relegated. Checked this morning, 24 goals conceded in 13 home games, the most in the league. Only 10 goals in 13 home league games, Preston the only side to score fewer. Least amount of home points gained in the Championship so far. Only two home wins all season, one of which was fortunate given Blackpool were down a player for most of the game. Only two games we have won where you would argue we have played well, Blackburn at home and Rotherham away. Our other wins had a fortuitous nature to them.

Thankfully there looks a batch of poor sides at the bottom of the league such as Blackpool, Hull, Huddersfield, Cardiff and Rotherham as well as us. Only need to be better than three of those teams. That said January is massive, genuinely think the results of those Hull, Cardiff and Luton games
in January will determine whether or not we stay up.
 
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moonay said:
Bloody hell, that was a good night's sleep. Woke up with the disappointment of another loss, but at least my wrists are free of blemishes.

With Whatmough, Kerr, REG, and Pearce all unavailable, and young Hughes (who I really wanted to see again at this level) getting clobbered so early on, I'm not really sure of what people expected from a makeshift defence. Better than they saw I suppose ... they should maybe read that 12th Man lead submission.

I though that when Espinoza Shinnie came on we might have looked a little more solid, or creative, or organised, but no, it wasn't to be.

Listen chaps, we can all spout off as much as we want, but that'll have as much effect as a Max Power pointed finger.

Accept we should have had a bigger window in the summer. Accept that Leam should maybe have shown a little less loyalty (to players) and a little more "sin miedo". Accept that the appointment of Kolo is a massive gamble, and though it's not currently looking like paying out, it's still a possibility. Accept that the owners are (hopefully) in this for the long run, have made mistakes, and are (hopefully) going to sort them. Most of all, accept this is Wigan Athletic, and "mid table mediocrity" was never an option.

Shit or bust ... and we're not bust yet.
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On your last point, it’s not what I hear.

Had a shit nights sleep personally and I’m still angry this morning. I appreciate you watched on telly due to illness, but live that was absolutely horrendous. Two home games in a row we’ve been ripped to pieces from the off. No structure, no cohesion and no game plan from what I can tell. When players start arguing with each other, as they did early on last night you know there are problems behind the scenes. I accept the central defensive injuries, but it was midfield and right full back that was the problem.

We’ve rolled the dice and lost. The next four months are going to be torturous watching this dross and my concern is what long term will be inflicted between now and then.
 
Zeb2 said:
Firstly I don’t consider myself ‘anti Leam’ or a reactionary (though that description might fit plenty)….but I’ll give you Middlesbrough (who were shite at the time) at Home
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Agreed, Middlesbrough at home was a shocker, especially second half.

For me though the real 'misery' performance under Leam at home was Stoke. Not only did we play atrociously but Stoke werent even that good, had come into that game in poor form themselves (it hasnt really worked yet for them under Neil). The fact we didnt lay a glove on a poor side like Stoke at home was truly shocking. No shots on target tells the story.

Yes the Boro and Sunderland results under Toure have been poor make no mistake about it but some of the home performances under Richardson were just as bad. Boro, Stoke, Cardiff as three examples. Not to mention Richardson had a near full amount of players available for those games. Whereas Toure has had to contend with an injury to his main striker in Wyke and heaps of injuries at the back which are contributing to the heavy losses
 
hindleymonwafc said:
Coming off after a poor home defeat is not the best time to harvest appraisal...I know you are desperate to be proved right but stop keep quoting your opinion as fact. We were going down anyway so judge this guy at the end of the season not 4 matches.
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So your view that we were going down anyway, is that opinion or fact? I’ll judge him now if that’s all right with you as 4 games in we are worse. For those such as yourself who wanted a decent man and successful manager sacked then subsequently championed replacing him with a novice this is the price we are now all paying.
 
Made in Wigan said:
What a load of fucking shite that was. Absolutely disgraceful performance, both collectively and individually. Very little effort and most looked like they couldn’t be arsed.

Like the last home game we got torn a new one in the first 35 minutes and we’re fortunate to only concede one. Defence and midfield was none existent. Darikwa was just abysmal and the it seems to me the team spirit has gone given the volley Jones was giving him after one of his cock ups and also one or two others for the keystone cop defending. A good bit of poaching from Keane undeservedly got us back in it but that was the end of any resemblance of a shot.

I’ve no idea what that penalty was given for and Sunderland gave barely appealed so can only assume it was soft. We fell to pieces after that. Whilst the third was deflected the passage of play leading up to it was just farcical from our perspective with them playing numerous short passes around the five or so we had stood there doing fuck all.

We look a team bereft of confidence and bereft of any idea of what they are supposed to be doing. In this situation you need a manager to shore up a team not instigate wholesale changes to the style of play and make us more open. Folk were very angry at full time and it feels like the club is coming apart at the seems. I’ve said it before but this appointment is right up there with the Coyle Mackay and Joyce ones. I’ve seen enough football to know what a relegation club looks like and this is it. And to add to my anger I banged the darts on when I got home and the crowd were chanting that fucking shit Toure song.
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Toure song is definitely not the biggest shithousing by fans I have heard as I have no affinity at all to Kolo the Clown Joycy the second. That defeat was down to him as manager. The penalty was harsh but the substitutions were down to him and they cost us the game. This is looking no different than the crap dished out before he came. Less long balls which actually a few more would help us compete more but less team spirit. Same favourites though. Come on Kolo, get the Paul Jewel videos out. Obviously he wouldn't but hopefully there is someone at the club to give him a bollocking.
 
At the end of the day a club avg att. of 36k with a manager who has 20yrs experience with a much more talented team beat a club avg. att. of 11k who nearly went bust a couple of years ago whose manager has zero experience so there's no surprise there.

We are currently punching above our weight on and off the pitch.
 
Made in Wigan said:
So your view that we were going down anyway, is that opinion or fact? I’ll judge him now if that’s all right with you as 4 games in we are worse. For those such as yourself who wanted a decent man and successful manager sacked then subsequently championed replacing him with a novice this is the price we are now all paying.
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It is my opinion and certainly not being passed off as fact, unlike you. Also, you aren't paying any price as you appear to be loving this. Decent man or not the fare on offer was bloody abysmal...something you seem to be overlooking.

I can't quite decide what your biggest gripe is...Leam going or this mon now ( and both isn't an answer ). I bet you were a nightmare at Christmas as a child especially if you didn't get that doll you always wanted.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
It is my opinion and certainly not being passed off as fact, unlike you. Also, you aren't paying any price as you appear to be loving this. Decent man or not the fare on other was bloody abysmal...something you seem to be overlooking.

I can't quite decide what your biggest gripe is...Leam going or this mon now ( and both isn't an answer ). I bet you were a nightmare at Christmas as a child especially if you didn't get that doll you always wanted.
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You are correct. Your ill informed opinions aren’t fact. Now why would I love watching the team getting torn apart game by game? Explain this to me. I’m intrigued. I am not talking about hindsight here, but rather foresight, something you and the other morons who believed this appointment was the right move clearly lack.

Have you not considered that the reason we played in the manner we did under Leam was because the players are not that great for this level and so the approach to try and keep it tight was due to these limitations? As I’ve previously acknowledged it wasn’t overly great to watch, but I could see the plan and the reasons behind it. As we’ve subsequently seen, playing more open has seen us torn to pieces. Speaking of dolls, I suggest you pick yours up from the floor and put back in your cot.
 
And there we have it in all it's nastiness...anybody who doesn't agree with you is a moron.

Throw that bottom lip over your shoulder and enjoy your day.
 
Made in Wigan said:
... I am not talking about hindsight here, but rather foresight, something you and the other morons who believed this appointment was the right move clearly lack....
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A bold statement to make after seeing just 4 games. Plenty of successful managers have taken a damn sight longer than that before turning things around.

As for the "other morons" comment, you do yourself no favours at times.
 
C_Latic said:
Thelo was our biggest threat all game by a mile and was taken off. Horrendous substitution if he wasn't injured. I really enjoy watching him by the way, he'll have an excellent career and when we go down, selling him will make up a large chunk of the TV money we'll lose.
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If you thought he was the best player. I’ll have some of what your having. Lost possession loads of times.
 
Should we bring in 2 centre backs next week and possibly a tough battling midfielder whether on loan or anything don't care, we would possibly start looking a lot more solid.
We will have to make do with whoever lb and rb we have for now but should be a huge step in the right direction .
 
Only one person to Blame for the mess is the previous manager. No one else. Stuck with his buddy’s. When every one knew they weren’t good enough. Only one who looked good was McGrath and he binned him off. Happened to many times with players. Same with Charlie Wyke was never going to play a full season again. To many favourites. Got caught out now how bad we are.
 
Thupthetics said:
Should we bring in 2 centre backs next week and possibly a tough battling midfielder whether on loan or anything don't care, we would possibly start looking a lot more solid.
We will have to make do with whoever lb and rb we have for now but should be a huge step in the right direction .
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Need to get players out first. And who wants to come to a team bottom of the championship.
 
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