Yes I know, but other than Woods they are all still here.
So something has changed since he said that.
I wasn’t expecting all the contracted players to leave in the summer, but felt he might try and move on a few more of them.
Anybody still think Harris is the man
- Thread starter Brexiteer
- Start date
So something has changed since he said that.
I wasn’t expecting all the contracted players to leave in the summer, but felt he might try and move on a few more of them.
It will be clearer after 10 games and the window is closed. There was never a quick fix from our starting position and it’s obvious he has missed out on some key targets, not for want of trying no doubt.
However, one observation is we seem to have brought a mix of relegated league 1 players and non experienced youngsters Fine but having a few seasoned league 2 players would have helped. No one in the squad or management team has experience in this league and it shows. t’s going to be a step learning curve.
another concern is amongst all the forward signings there isn’t a poacher type and it looks like we’ve finished recruiting there.
That said, I still trust in Harris though and think things will get better. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
However, one observation is we seem to have brought a mix of relegated league 1 players and non experienced youngsters Fine but having a few seasoned league 2 players would have helped. No one in the squad or management team has experience in this league and it shows. t’s going to be a step learning curve.
another concern is amongst all the forward signings there isn’t a poacher type and it looks like we’ve finished recruiting there.
That said, I still trust in Harris though and think things will get better. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
From hearing GITB preview pre-Wimbledon with their fan, it seems like they did and their squad was behind even us, which may be why we were able to beat them in the League Cup when we both made lots of changes.
Not sure about the other two. Would envisage that Tranmere have probably kept a similar squad and probably Harrogate too, but Harrogate are such a small club, I would expect is to do a lot better then lag night even if we are under-cooked (and we shouldn’t be)
Not sure about the other two. Would envisage that Tranmere have probably kept a similar squad and probably Harrogate too, but Harrogate are such a small club, I would expect is to do a lot better then lag night even if we are under-cooked (and we shouldn’t be)
We have a wholly new team that will take time to gel, if you have faith in Harris now is the time for patience while the team settles down. Mid-season will be the time to judge.
Having said that, do I think the club is ready to mount a pronotion challenge this season? No.
Could we be relegated? Maybe. In truth the club has been in decline for a long while now. The crowds are likely to dwindle further unless there is a quick turnaround, assuming those staying away havent giving up coming back completely.
Having said that, do I think the club is ready to mount a pronotion challenge this season? No.
Could we be relegated? Maybe. In truth the club has been in decline for a long while now. The crowds are likely to dwindle further unless there is a quick turnaround, assuming those staying away havent giving up coming back completely.
LSB2
Vital Football Hero
Maybe he did try to move them on, and no other club wanted them. We can see why!
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SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
On the general point re “is Harris the man got the job?”, I am still very firmly in the “yes” camp and don’t think we could get any one better. Barring a relegation battle come Easter (which even with our start, I can’t see) he’s here until Easter and hopefully for his whole contract term barring a disaster.
However, he has to hold his hands up and say there are no excuses. He can’t just blame the players (although it is correct to do so as they have been pants) and he certainly can’t blame the budget against the teams we’ve played. He hasn’t set his team up in the right way and it’s just not been good enough.
I think it’s a big mistake of his to start going on about budget as whilst it’s an excuse against Salford, Stockport etc., he’s setting himself up for criticism if we lose to someone with clearly a smaller budget or get thrashed by teams operating in the same budget areas as us (he can’t have it both ways) - we’ve done it three times out of four so far. I hope he stops this. It didn’t end well for JED or Evans playing this card - it gets chairman/co-chairman and fans backs up.
However, he has to hold his hands up and say there are no excuses. He can’t just blame the players (although it is correct to do so as they have been pants) and he certainly can’t blame the budget against the teams we’ve played. He hasn’t set his team up in the right way and it’s just not been good enough.
I think it’s a big mistake of his to start going on about budget as whilst it’s an excuse against Salford, Stockport etc., he’s setting himself up for criticism if we lose to someone with clearly a smaller budget or get thrashed by teams operating in the same budget areas as us (he can’t have it both ways) - we’ve done it three times out of four so far. I hope he stops this. It didn’t end well for JED or Evans playing this card - it gets chairman/co-chairman and fans backs up.
Vambogills
Vital Football Hero
We have a side trying to play football in a league of very physical, in your face teams. As a result we are not winning first or second balls and gifting posession when pressured. They are things that can be dealt with on the training ground. We have shown periods of great entertaining football but, apart from Rochdale, not seen that through to grab 3 points. We are not even half way to the 10 game mark when Harris asked to be judged. If it's no better by then then he will have his ear bent by more than just a couple of Medway Stand miseries.
Billy_Bleach
Vital Squad Member
Exactly. You could have Harris, Keith Stevens, Terry Hurlock and half the Bushwacker firm coaching these players all week and most of them still wouldn't be able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
DoctorEvil
Vital Reserves Team
Is Harris still the man? Well he’s going to have to be. Yes we’ve played some entertaining football but we need to do it for more than 15 mins before smashing it up to the big lad who isn’t a target man. If we have two wingers then it needs to go through them. I think we have to go 5 at the back and Harris needs them working on that. Baggott will be a good ball playing centre back in about 4 years when he’s filled out but he’s too lightweight to be playing as a two. Wright looked better in pre season as a right side centre back. As a right back he looks a bit lost.
The second half yesterday was a total shambles and no one knew what they were doing. Also if you think Harrogate, Wimbledon and Tranmere are going to be our biggest physical challenges then I think you are fooling yourself
The second half yesterday was a total shambles and no one knew what they were doing. Also if you think Harrogate, Wimbledon and Tranmere are going to be our biggest physical challenges then I think you are fooling yourself
DoctorEvil
Vital Reserves Team
If you look at it solely as a work in progress he is right. Expectations will need to be lowered
Totally agree. Risible that the post has been launched at such an early stage.
We're 20th at the moment, how low do you want to go?
jogills
Vital Football Hero
I suspect I know who that is and he's been abusing managers for a few years now. It seems to be his main reason for attending and at least one long standing fan had a word with him on the way out.
Billy_Bleach
Vital Squad Member
Is it that moany prick in block E about two rows from the back?
jogills
Vital Football Hero
I'll take this thread as an invitation to discussion rather than an actual query as to whether Harris should go, I expect him to stay and I'd be extremely worried if he went.
Last night was a big disappointment but should be a benchmark to reset some expectations, not quite the great reset vg but you get what I mean. We were awful last year, failed to compete until Harris arrived and even then only with 5 at the back and a do or die approach. Harris was left with a poor hand, I'll disregard budget it's boring and others have dealt with it, but he had to rebuild an entire squad. Worse still Evans left as he always does with young players not ready for the step up and the ladder to the first team broken. I think we'd have kept Lintott and Sithole in other circumstances. He left Harris with some players he didn't want, possibly on good wages. It will takee time for Harris to rework the squad.
Counting the GK and with a back 4 we have 4 out of the 5 positions turned over. whatever one thinks of Max he has never been a talker and a leader so that defence is brand new and will take time to settle individually and collectively. It may well change over the coming weeks and months.
Lee, another of the more experienced players is also doesn't talk and drive other players on and last night he was again forced into situations he struggles with. O'Keefe was subsdued and substituted so we had no real midfield presence. Already Williams looks crucial for our shape, organisation and motivation and his absence left us much weaker.
We need to be careful because if we throw our toys out and resort to abuse then players that need time to build confidence will go into their shells, avoid responsibility and resort to hoofing and passing the buck.
The positives last night were mostly in the first quarter of an hour and proved that if we put the ball in front of Green with room to play he beats people, or is fouled. The new guy looks strong and direct. Mandron is better with the ball on the deck and is reasonably quick. We are capable of playing cleverly and swiftly enough to trouble League 2 defences.
Harris knows all this and much more besides, he sees these players in training and at rest and talks to them daily. He has selected and organised teams, managed crises large and small and more imnmediately he knows how to set up a team to shut up shop. He doesn't want to do that, he wants the team to entertain because he knows we want that too. It's up to him to decide if he needs to retreat from that ambition in the short term. have the attention span of fly but even I can see that this is a long project and we have only just begun. He has shown faith in a few players that are not convincing at present and ultimately he will be judged on that but he needs time to work with those players.
Last night was a big disappointment but should be a benchmark to reset some expectations, not quite the great reset vg but you get what I mean. We were awful last year, failed to compete until Harris arrived and even then only with 5 at the back and a do or die approach. Harris was left with a poor hand, I'll disregard budget it's boring and others have dealt with it, but he had to rebuild an entire squad. Worse still Evans left as he always does with young players not ready for the step up and the ladder to the first team broken. I think we'd have kept Lintott and Sithole in other circumstances. He left Harris with some players he didn't want, possibly on good wages. It will takee time for Harris to rework the squad.
Counting the GK and with a back 4 we have 4 out of the 5 positions turned over. whatever one thinks of Max he has never been a talker and a leader so that defence is brand new and will take time to settle individually and collectively. It may well change over the coming weeks and months.
Lee, another of the more experienced players is also doesn't talk and drive other players on and last night he was again forced into situations he struggles with. O'Keefe was subsdued and substituted so we had no real midfield presence. Already Williams looks crucial for our shape, organisation and motivation and his absence left us much weaker.
We need to be careful because if we throw our toys out and resort to abuse then players that need time to build confidence will go into their shells, avoid responsibility and resort to hoofing and passing the buck.
The positives last night were mostly in the first quarter of an hour and proved that if we put the ball in front of Green with room to play he beats people, or is fouled. The new guy looks strong and direct. Mandron is better with the ball on the deck and is reasonably quick. We are capable of playing cleverly and swiftly enough to trouble League 2 defences.
Harris knows all this and much more besides, he sees these players in training and at rest and talks to them daily. He has selected and organised teams, managed crises large and small and more imnmediately he knows how to set up a team to shut up shop. He doesn't want to do that, he wants the team to entertain because he knows we want that too. It's up to him to decide if he needs to retreat from that ambition in the short term. have the attention span of fly but even I can see that this is a long project and we have only just begun. He has shown faith in a few players that are not convincing at present and ultimately he will be judged on that but he needs time to work with those players.
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SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
No. Expectations from apologists need to be highered.
We don’t know what budget we’ve got compared to other and Harris probably doesn’t exactly himself. We know that we’ve got a lower budget than bankrolled Stockport and Salford and probably Mansfield, well supported Bradford, and probably Swindon and Doncaster who are League Two set ups really. There’s likely about 10-12 non-league set-ups who have a lower budget than us, which means we’re probably somewhere between about 7th and 12th in the budget league, so Harris’ guess at 10th is probably not far wrong.
Add to that we’ve probably got a management team who probably cost as much as any in the division, so expectations are very much that we should be at the top end of expectations, if not surpassing it, in terms of budget.
It never ceases to amaze me how low expectations are from some of our fans. A good example was when we were looking for a new manager - Harris, Flynn and Paul Cook were out of our league” apparently - they’d never come to our level. What happened? Harris came to us, Flynn went to League Two Walsall and Cook went to non-league Chesterfield.
It is early days and, let’s not forget Peter Taylor’s poor start in our promotion season, so let’s not get carried away and call for Harris’s head (not that I can see anyone is), but equally let’s have some ambition and not accept mediocrity below expectations and lower our standards just to reflect our chronic under-achievement so far.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
I think Harris said something about getting the players to watch a rerun of Saturday before last night's game.
Perhaps now get them to watch a rerun of the second half spell last night when Harrogate could have filled their boots if not for Morris. Then follow it with double training. Then finally a meeting so the players can have an exchange of views. If their on pitch behaviour is anything to go by, none of them will say anything, but just spend the time looking at one another and passing the buck. Lee will probably just set off for the bogs and Ehmer will follow, getting there 5 minutes later.
I certainly don't think Graeme Souness would have called it a "mans" performance.
Perhaps now get them to watch a rerun of the second half spell last night when Harrogate could have filled their boots if not for Morris. Then follow it with double training. Then finally a meeting so the players can have an exchange of views. If their on pitch behaviour is anything to go by, none of them will say anything, but just spend the time looking at one another and passing the buck. Lee will probably just set off for the bogs and Ehmer will follow, getting there 5 minutes later.
I certainly don't think Graeme Souness would have called it a "mans" performance.
