Players coming in ... | Page 14 | Vital Football

Players coming in ...

C_McNamara said:
You have to look at each player on the own merits ... some are in a position at 18 to start games week in week out (some are at 16 to be fair) some don’t meet the levels until 21/22. Jamie Vardy is just one example where things didn’t really get going for him till his mid twenties

Not to say anyone is wrong, we may see Perry for example fade away in a years time, just have to see. The coaches and staff at first team level to academy level will spend hours accessing each player and where they are at across a wide range of criteria, working out what’s best for their development. We just have to trust them as fans.

Sport is all about opinions, part of what makes it great.
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I don't think it's so much a case of trusting their judgement as no one is saying these lads are going to be great players, it's just their hands have been tied in squad limitations and they've had to use them up until now. If we had the embargo lifted and they had to option to bring in replacements I suspect they would. They already have in Ojo.
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
To be honest I think that's a problem with the Academy & Development Squad system.
Club's hold on to players for too long & they don't play competitive football until too late an age - back when I first started watching Latics in the late 80's & we had a regular conveyor belt of talent, players were blooded at a far earlier age. If they hadn't made it at their original, higher level club, club's like Latics took them on at 18 & gave them their chance
Nowadays the club's, particularly at premier league & Championship level, hang on to their players for too long & they continue to play non-competitive football for far too long so it's a culture shock when they get released or are loaned out. Of all the loanees we've had in recent years who were highly rated & alleged stars for the future there's probably been only Reece James who really shone. I even remember an argument I had with a Liverpool supporter I knew when I said that the batch of Liverpool players we got in under Malky McKay were all garbage & he refused to believe me coz they were all shining at Dev Squad level

Anyway, my rather long winded point is that 22-23 is the old 18-19 development age of a footballer and there's still time for them to have long professional careers
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I completely agree with you about players not getting game time early enough.

The step up to the mens game even at lower levels is so big and most kids don't make it. Look at our U23's they ripped up trees at their level in recent years but out of that side after Geldhardt and Weir who both left only Joseph has really impressed. I think the issue is other clubs know this and finding decent clubs willing to take completely untried kids from our academy who haven't got a particularly impressive CV can be tricky.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I completely agree with you about players not getting game time early enough.

The step up to the mens game even at lower levels is so big and most kids don't make it. Look at our U23's they ripped up trees at their level in recent years but out of that side after Geldhardt and Weir who both left only Joseph has really impressed. I think the issue is other clubs know this and finding decent clubs willing to take completely untried kids from our academy who haven't got a particularly impressive CV can be tricky.
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A point I would make regarding our academy is that as a lower league club the academy players were probably overlooked by clubs looking for loan players. Most of the loan places are taken up by players from PL academies.

The success of our academy over the past couple of seasons against academies from bigger clubs has shone a spotlight on our players. For instance the likes of Devine and Joseph being tracked by Spurs is a direct result of their performance against their U23's in the cup. Weir was probably spotted from his performances for the Scottish international set up, and probably from the fact that his father was a coach at Brighton. Gelhardt was targeted after his breakthrough and McGurk and McHugh have probably been spotted as interest was generated by players being taken by bigger clubs.

I think that now that our academy has been recognised as producing decent players there will be more interest in taking loan players from us.
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
To be honest I think that's a problem with the Academy & Development Squad system.
Club's hold on to players for too long & they don't play competitive football until too late an age - back when I first started watching Latics in the late 80's & we had a regular conveyor belt of talent, players were blooded at a far earlier age. If they hadn't made it at their original, higher level club, club's like Latics took them on at 18 & gave them their chance
Nowadays the club's, particularly at premier league & Championship level, hang on to their players for too long & they continue to play non-competitive football for far too long so it's a culture shock when they get released or are loaned out. Of all the loanees we've had in recent years who were highly rated & alleged stars for the future there's probably been only Reece James who really shone. I even remember an argument I had with a Liverpool supporter I knew when I said that the batch of Liverpool players we got in under Malky McKay were all garbage & he refused to believe me coz they were all shining at Dev Squad level

Anyway, my rather long winded point is that 22-23 is the old 18-19 development age of a footballer and there's still time for them to have long professional careers
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lets be honest - when Cook was running the show the academy/youth players didn’t get a chance - there was no path to the first team.

they should have been gradually “blooded” rather than dropped in at the deep end like they have. I really think it’s far too early to judge these lads yet - I’ll make my mind up after they have had a good run in a team not constantly in turmoil !
 
Degsy1 said:
lets be honest - when Cook was running the show the academy/youth players didn’t get a chance - there was no path to the first team.

they should have been gradually “blooded” rather than dropped in at the deep end like they have. I really think it’s far too early to judge these lads yet - I’ll make my mind up after they have had a good run in a team not constantly in turmoil !
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A few points against that Degsy:

- we were in the Championship, a much higher standard
- the current players were all a year younger then
- the best (Gelhardt &Weir) were given occasional chances ..... but see points 1 & 2

Do you seriously think any of the current youngsters should have been "blooded" last season?
 
moonay said:
A few points against that Degsy:

- we were in the Championship, a much higher standard
- the current players were all a year younger then
- the best (Gelhardt &Weir) were given occasional chances ..... but see points 1 & 2

Do you seriously think any of the current youngsters should have been "blooded" last season?
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Geldhardt was (to a point) Weir and Devine should have been along with lesser opportunities for Joseph and Long as a minimum.
 
moonay said:
A few points against that Degsy:

- we were in the Championship, a much higher standard
- the current players were all a year younger then
- the best (Gelhardt &Weir) were given occasional chances ..... but see points 1 & 2

Do you seriously think any of the current youngsters should have been "blooded" last season?
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I think what we've seen this season completely validates Cook's reluctance to use the kids. Only exception was Geldhardt who deserved more sub minutes at the least.

Our academy is doing well at youth level but as we've seen that doesn't automatically translate to senior level.
 
That is welcome news. Hopefully in the team for Tuesday. Swindon need to get the covers on now. Temperatures set to drop here from tomorrow night, we can’t have another postponement! Their fans are spitting fire about Sheridan and he’s had to come out and say he still has the chairman’s support.
 
Coddenchips said:
Tilt has signed again till the end of the season.
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Really good news, we missed a player like him against Blackpool. His experience alongside Johnston should give us the strength and ability to see off big centre forwards like Madine for the rest of the season.

If we go on and get Grigg in the spine of the team will have some experience with Ojo, Keane (and Evans to come back).

Lets get the takeover done, administration lifted, and one or two decent out of contract additions and I feel confident we can survive.
 
moonay said:
A few points against that Degsy:

- we were in the Championship, a much higher standard
- the current players were all a year younger then
- the best (Gelhardt &Weir) were given occasional chances ..... but see points 1 & 2

Do you seriously think any of the current youngsters should have been "blooded" last season?
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I most certainly do, “blooded” meaning the occasional game surrounded by experienced players to help development and give experience !.

For instance last July we were winning 8:0 against Hull in the Championship with young lads on the bench and did Cook bing any on ? - no he didn’t - that tells you everything about Cooks attitude to youth !.

Personally I think Merrie & Perry would have benefitted being “blooded” in a team full of experienced players rather than having to play in trans constantly changing - like I say, I won’t judge these lads until I see how they perform in a stable team, surrounded by (hopefully) some experienced and useful players !

And it’s good to see Tilt is back in the team !
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Really good news, we missed a player like him against Blackpool. His experience alongside Johnston should give us the strength and ability to see off big centre forwards like Madine for the rest of the season.

If we go on and get Grigg in the spine of the team will have some experience with Ojo, Keane (and Evans to come back).

Lets get the takeover done, administration lifted, and one or two decent out of contract additions and I feel confident we can survive.
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I fully agree with you about strengthening the spine of the team, just get rid of Jones and we will be sorted.
 
Degsy1 said:
I most certainly do, “blooded” meaning the occasional game surrounded by experienced players to help development and give experience !.

For instance last July we were winning 8:0 against Hull in the Championship with young lads on the bench and did Cook bing any on ? - no he didn’t - that tells you everything about Cooks attitude to youth !.

Personally I think Merrie & Perry would have benefitted being “blooded” in a team full of experienced players rather than having to play in trans constantly changing
- like I say, I won’t judge these lads until I see how they perform in a stable team, surrounded by (hopefully) some experienced and useful players !

And it’s good to see Tilt is back in the team !
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Like you I like to see the young lads given game time but other than the game you mention the team were fighting relegation and I wouldn't want to see any of them risked in games were we were holding a single goal lead. If PC had played them in close games or games when we were behind I think the reaction on here would have been toxic.

You say that Cook had a poor record of playing academy players and yet he is the one that gave our youngest ever player a cup run out, and as it happened got slated for playing a young side that day.
 
Degsy1 said:
I most certainly do, “blooded” meaning the occasional game surrounded by experienced players to help development and give experience !.

For instance last July we were winning 8:0 against Hull in the Championship with young lads on the bench and did Cook bing any on ? - no he didn’t - that tells you everything about Cooks attitude to youth !.

Personally I think Merrie & Perry would have benefitted being “blooded” in a team full of experienced players rather than having to play in trans constantly changing - like I say, I won’t judge these lads until I see how they perform in a stable team, surrounded by (hopefully) some experienced and useful players !

And it’s good to see Tilt is back in the team !
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Fair enough Degsy ........ though I disagree.

For the Hull game, only Joffy and Obi were on the bench. I suppose he could have used them in the 4 changes he made, but we were still battling for our survival.

Merrie and Perry were behind Morsy, Evans, Williams, and Dowell.

I do agree re Tilt though.
 
Hampton said:
The lad Luetwieler recently left Fleetwood, Canadian international free agent - wouldn't be a bad shout
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.

From what I can see he has been second string for most of his career, a couple of seasons with Shrewsbury in L1 & 2 as first choice then 13 appearances in cup and league for Blackburn plus 2 for Fleetwood this season. Prior to all that his time at Middlesbrough saw him used as 5 times in two seasons. Has never represented Canada to date , but was Swiss U21 prior to changing allegiance.

Hardly inspiring stats.
 
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