EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

[jogills]

The only move the government have made is to say they they do not intend to lower workers rights and may in fact increase them above those in the EU. You just choose not to believe them which is your right.

In any case, if they pass any legislation that does adversely affect worker's rights, they would not be able to do it on the quiet and with Starmer already leading Johnson in some opinion polls, he could have a real field day at the Tories expense.

This government repeatedly makes statements that it intends all children to be properly fed, all children to be equipped for online learning, all dodgy cladding to be removed and 1001 other such things. I am talking about what they say they are going to actually do such as increasing the maximum working week, prolonging the use of niotinoids and reopening the question of using GM food. I am not arguing the merits or otherwise of these actions but they assured us they would not be happening. That's lying in my simple way of thinking.

 

[markinkent]

I was aware that it was an average over several months but writing "the 48 hours average over several months working hours cap law" seemed a bit long winded when most people would understand what I meant by "the 48 Hour week limit law". I could have written the more snappy "working time directive" but that might have confused a few people.

EU Directive 2003/88/EC wouldn't actually have any practical impact on someone asked to work occasional overtime. For the sort of roles where working an average of over 48 hours might be common, most people are aware of the hours and tend to opt out. From the last time I saw any states on Opting Out, practically everyone does.

I think we are in agreement Rob. The key point being that the opt out was your personal choice - an employer couldn't force you to. That's personal and protection in one package. Bloody EU coming over here and protecting our workers !

The other argument was the bureaucracy of collecting the hours for reporting purposes. Many places collect hours worked for payroll and cost allocation purposes i.e. to different budgets. All you need is a report to calculate the 17 week rolling average and highlight anyone approaching the limits. Sounds like a lot less red tape than exporting something to the EU.

 

[Trashbat]

Sounds contradictory to me. How does an average gig economy worker have "clients"? Sounds more like a self employed position.

Having worked in finance, the only mortgages that were offered to people of no fixed income at that time were only for 70% or less of the value of the property and at a much higher than standard rate.

You make it sound like subprime mortgages in a deregulated market are on the way back so we had better be ready for another world economic crash !

Sounds like your about 20 years out of date.

Being ‘self-employed’ and a ‘gig-worker’ are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Exactly
Labour would, rightly so, be all over it.

It’s just yet another anti Brexit jibe.
We’ll have to put up with these until the furore dies down.
James OBrien has just done an entire show on Scottish fishermen not completing export paperwork correctly and blaming Nigel Farage.
It’s Farages fault that the French Customs are being childish and holding up goods unnecessarily.
He had some anti Brexit fishing expert telling us how we had been lied to.
Honestly, give it a rest James.

The French are implementing the rules that everyone who bothered to listen to the experts knew would be applied as soon as we made the decision to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market. I have spent the last 4 years trying to explain this and have been shouted down as spouting ‘project fear’ at every turn. When the fxxk are you going to own your own shit.

 

[shotshy]

The French are implementing the rules that everyone who bothered to listen to the experts knew would be applied as soon as we made the decision to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market. I have spent the last 4 years trying to explain this and have been shouted down as spouting ‘project fear’ at every turn. When the fxxk are you going to own your own shit.

And putting their own tradesmen out of work in the meantime.
Bravo Le France

 

[Therealwaldo]

And putting their own tradesmen out of work in the meantime.
Bravo Le France

It’s the nature of rules that we knew would be implemented. We didn’t have to put ourselves in this position. We could have been out of the EU but in the Customs Union. No one says the rules won’t adversely effect both sides but the rules aren’t voluntary. The French wholesaler may well be able to find another supplier in the EU. Our fishermen may find it far more difficult to find another whole market for their produce. So far as taking pot shots at the French is concerned, you might just as well describe Australia as being “childish” for having strong import rules on food products.

 

[GillsBluenose]

The French are implementing the rules that everyone who bothered to listen to the experts knew would be applied as soon as we made the decision to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market. I have spent the last 4 years trying to explain this and have been shouted down as spouting ‘project fear’ at every turn. When the fxxk are you going to own your own shit.

Strange as I thought you were in the camp saying that a "no deal" would be a disaster and asking why Johnson was risking that on an industry that makes up about 0.1% per cent of the economy.

Suddenly become important now, then?

Single Market - had to leave it to end free movement
Customs Union - had to leave it to negotiate our own free trade deals with other countries.

You call leaving them "our decision". I would say we had no choice due to their existing structure.

 

[GillsBluenose]

French wholesaler may well be able to find another supplier in the EU. Our fishermen may find it far more difficult to find another whole market for their produce.

Wayne is alive and well. French wholesalers can easily find new markets but we can't. Right. Same with German car and white goods manufacturers. Right.

Really nice of them to have done us such a favour by trading with us in the past, while refusing to trade with these other nameless sellers and buyers that were hammering on their door.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Strange as I thought you were in the camp saying that a "no deal" would be a disaster and asking why Johnson was risking that on an industry that makes up about 0.1% per cent of the economy.

Suddenly become important now, then?

Single Market - had to leave it to end free movement
Customs Union - had to leave it to negotiate our own free trade deals with other countries.

You call leaving them "our decision". I would say we had no choice due to their existing structure.

This deal is only one tiny step away from no deal. You always bang on about trade deficits. But the trade deficit is in manufactured goods. So the EU have got what they want on that in that there will be no tariffs. Our surplus is in the service sector and we have got precisely nothing on that. We have no mutual recognition of qualifications, another area where we will suffer because more UK companies do work on the continent than vice versa. We have no deal on financial services. On day one of Brexit ALL trading in shares in EU based companies moved straight to the EU. That’s all those fees on billions in share trading lost overnight to the UK and moved into the EU.

There are more elements of ‘no deal’ in the negotiated deal than in any kind of deal that was being argued for in advance.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Wayne is alive and well. French wholesalers can easily find new markets but we can't. Right. Same with German car and white goods manufacturers. Right.

Really nice of them to have done us such a favour by trading with us in the past, while refusing to trade with these other nameless sellers and buyers that were hammering on their door.

I had no idea that the UK had a monopoly in the production of shellfish. Presumably there are none off the coast of Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. The UK fishing industry relies on being able to sell live shellfish into the EU. Perhaps you’d like to tell me where they can be exported to when they often need to be transported within 24 hours to retain their value. Frozen, they lose about 60% of their value according to the reports I‘ve read. Again, the issue is our difficulty in accessing the whole EU market whereas EU countries have difficulty accessing the market in only one. It’s the issue that you obstinately still won’t recognise. If Scottish fishermen can find new markets so easily, why are they so upset ? Perhaps you’d like to share your pearls of wisdom with them ?

You still seem fixated with German manufacturers, God knows what that’s got to do with this argument. They have tariff and quota free access to the UK market. Similarly our manufactured goods have the same access into the EU. Good.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Over 80% of our trade (services) is not covered by brexit so strange that all of the arguing is about non services goods.

 

[shotshy]

Over 80% of our trade (services) is not covered by brexit so strange that all of the arguing is about non services goods.

That’s because 80% of our trade in services is not with the Eu.
80% of the U.K. economy may well be in the service sector but that doesn’t mean that is with the Eu countries.
Services covers much.
Are you suggesting that 100% of the U.K. service industry is with the Eu?
That’s bonkers!

 

[Gills 58]

You don't need to be pro or anti Brexit to wonder at some views on workers rights. I have little concern for well educated and qualified people with skills that are in demand because they can dictate their own terms. It is glaringly obvious that many, from cabinet ministers down to football MB posters, have never had to rely on legislation to protect their employment and working conditions.

It is interesting that this particular government has moved so quickly to indicate the direction it intends taking. When some of us drew attention to the thinking expressed in Britannia Unchained, we were ridiculed. When people tell you what they think and what they are planning and they get the opportunity to act; they usually do.

Spot in as usual.

4 if the 5 authors of Britannia Unchained are now government ministers I believe. Truly scary. Lots of people far more vulnerable to their views than myself* have just voted them in. Sad. A bit like the people conned by Trump.

* I'll be regarded as condescending Metropolitan elite by those that disagree with me.

 

[shotshy]

Spot in as usual.

4 if the 5 authors of Britannia Unchained are now government ministers I believe. Truly scary. Lots of people far more vulnerable to their views than myself* have just voted them in. Sad. A bit like the people conned by Trump.

* I'll be regarded as condescending Metropolitan elite by those that disagree with me.

* that’s because you are
Seriously though, have a bit more faith in the power of common sense.
Labour would oppose and many, many Tory MPs would oppose a deterioration in standards.
Be grateful that we live in a nation with some of the highest standards in the world.

 

[Vambogills]

Over 80% of our trade (services) is not covered by brexit so strange that all of the arguing is about non services goods.

Presumably they must be the ones that are not currently more complex and expensive for UK business as a result of leaving.
There must be more uplifting news than hearing JRM advise that the UKs rotting fish stocks are 'happy' because they're British.

 

[shotshy]

Happy fish = Happy chips
The Irish won’t have any chips because the Eu have banned U.K. seed potatoes ?
High risk apparently
Fine two weeks ago but high risk today.
The loser is the Irish .

 

[Therealwaldo]

I’ve had a look at the ONS statistics for 2018. In that year our services exports to the EU (plus Switzerland) amounted to 34% of our total services exports worldwide. That’s quite a chunk of our exporting market that we’ve made either impossible or, at least, very difficult.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Happy fish = Happy chips
The Irish won’t have any chips because the Eu have banned U.K. seed potatoes ?
High risk apparently
Fine two weeks ago but high risk today.
The loser is the Irish .

You give away the shallowness of your thinking on this by implying that someone is making rules in some way to be nasty. In the same way that Australia and many other countries have strict rules on the import of food and agricultural products, so does the EU. We avoided these by adopting EU wide regulations as part of our membership of the EU that gave assurance that those products would be safe. We have very specifically said that we want to be able to diverge our standards. That, and our decision to be outside the Customs Union means that we were always going to be subject to the checks that you’re referring to. It’s an automatic consequence of the choices that we’ve made. People should grow up and accept the consequences of the actions they argued so vehemently for.

 

[shotshy]

You give away the shallowness of your thinking on this by implying that someone is making rules in some way to be nasty. In the same way that Australia and many other countries have strict rules on the import of food and agricultural products, so does the EU. We avoided these by adopting EU wide regulations as part of our membership of the EU that gave assurance that those products would be safe. We have very specifically said that we want to be able to diverge our standards. That, and our decision to be outside the Customs Union means that we were always going to be subject to the checks that you’re referring to. It’s an automatic consequence of the choices that we’ve made. People should grow up and accept the consequences of the actions they argued so vehemently for.

My thinking is deep.
Nose. Spite. Face.
It doesn’t have to be like this with a trusted ex member but the Eu is choosing to do it to make a statement to the member countries.
They are currently tougher on the U.K. than they are on China.
Google it if you don’t believe it.
Thank God we are being the grown ups in this situation and have not reciprocated .

 

[GillsBluenose]

People should grow up and accept the consequences of the actions they argued so vehemently for.

Actually, in the example Shotshy has used, it is the Irish (still an EU member) that have to accept the consequences, which presumably they do, so all's good.

I think they call it the boomerang effect (or coming back to bite you on the arse in layman's terms).