Would be Millwall, wouldn`t it ? | Page 6 | Vital Football

Would be Millwall, wouldn`t it ?

jogills said:
How many times does it need to be said that the BLM organisation in the US does not own English words and their meaning.
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Yes "meaning" is important.
"Black" lives matter is selective.
"All" lives matter is not.

Yet we find that activists and commentators are applying a different "meaning" to plain English

So how come those who point out the normal meaning are slurred ?

(Some have observed that redefining the meaning of words is part of the play book of the authoritarian left.)
 
alphabet_king said:
I dont know too many Millwall fans, but there's plenty of West Ham here in Thurrock Essex, a strong hold of the Brexit and previously the UKIP vote.
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(In the context of the previous passages....)
That's a nasty bit of stereotyping innuendo.:mad:
Evidence ?
 
alphabet_king said:
I think a big part of the reason people don't like BLM in football is also that they dont feel politics should be forced into our football, and I actually tend to agree. Politics is divisive. Football is meant to be the common ground - or at least, aside from politics.

I am all for kick it out, etc which is focusing on kicking racism out of football. but BLM is a wider movement than just football. However, as much as I agree with the need to take politics right out of football, ironically, I bet half the people claiming BLM protests (and politics) should be kept out of football, happily encourage the players to wear the poppy (another fairly political emblem). I just like to see consistency in how people apply their opinions/logic. When there's no consistency, you can only help but feel people are picking and choosing what logic they apply based on their already existing prejudices.
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I`m all for consistency and see what you`re saying. But, personally, I wouldn`t see the Poppy as political or even fairly political. To my mind the Poppy is about remembering all those brave soldiers, sailors and airmen and women, many of whom were conscripted, who gave their lives for our freedom. Plus it`s a once a year remembrance, we don`t wear it all year round.
 
It is remarkable how happy some are to define a gesture to fit their own agenda, disregarding those actually making the gesture. If your first response is to turn the whole thing into a left right issue carrying the weight of all and any prejudice you oppose you have either missed the point or are making mischief.

No fan is being required to kneel it's something the players are doing. Don't accuse them of being hoodwinked, listen to what they say. Try Mahlon Romeo for starters.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
I`m all for consistency and see what you`re saying. But, personally, I wouldn`t see the Poppy as political or even fairly political. To my mind the Poppy is about remembering all those brave soldiers, sailors and airmen and women, many of whom were conscripted, who gave their lives for our freedom. Plus it`s a once a year remembrance, we don`t wear it all year round.
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This basically proves my point. It seems that you fail to see how it's political, because it's something you agree with. People dying in war....wars are VERY political. Ask James Mclean whether he thinks the poppy is political to him as an Irishman. It's clearly political to him. And the argument has been rehashed on here a number of times so we don't need to go over it again.

I wear a poppy. I totally believe in rememberance day. But likewise, i understand why some might not. It's ultimately political.

Football should be just about football. If you rightly want to remember our fallen (as I do), then do it outside of football. Don't force people who may not agree with your politics to celebrate them. No forced BLM protests, no poppies etc. keep politics out of football.
 
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ThreeSixes said:
That is really good. I think even the most self righteous of posters on this site would struggle to find much to argue with there
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Turned it off at the word "woke". Another, right wing nut job masquerading as a legitimate journalist. If he, and the rest of you, stopped this pretence that you actually believe that the reaction of the Millwall fans was anything other than racist, we might get somewhere.
 
mehmets_curlies said:
Turned it off at the word "woke". Another, right wing nut job masquerading as a legitimate journalist. If he, and the rest of you, stopped this pretence that you actually believe that the reaction of the Millwall fans was anything other than racist, we might get somewhere.
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Stopped reading at "another right wing nut job". Apologies if there was anything of value in the rest of your post
 
alphabet_king said:
This basically proves my point. It seems that you fail to see how it's political, because it's something you agree with. People dying in war....wars are VERY political. Ask James Mclean whether he thinks the poppy is political to him as an Irishman. It's clearly political to him. And the argument has been rehashed on here a number of times so we don't need to go over it again.

Football should be just about football. If you rightly want to remember our fallen (as I do), then do it outside of football. Don't force people who may not agree with your politics to celebrate them. No forced BLM protests, no poppies etc. keep politics out of football.
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You really should read posts before leaping in with both feet. My reply to you was purely in relation to the poppy not being political. I made no reference to it being worn on the football field, simply that I thought it was neither political nor fairly political.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
You really should read posts before leaping in with both feet. My reply to you was purely in relation to the poppy not being political. I made no reference to it being worn on the football field, simply that I thought it was neither political nor fairly political.
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Eh? and my response was that i felt it is political, just ask James Mclean. Was that not clear and entirely relevant to the discussion?
 
Tarian said:
But is it ?
a) Daily, to all (or even most) black people ?

b) Genuinely, hostile aggressive or discriminatory behaviour based on people's skin colour

a) When black people are asked "have you experience racism", I would be astonished if fewer than 90% said "yes".
Much the same as a "shock" headline reported that 81% of policeman had been assaulted.
Over a lifetime / career, why not more ????

b) In the '70's hostility was open and discrimination still occurred - but it was declining.
By the late '80's "racism" had virtually disappeared.

Then in the early '90's along came "Ethnic Monitoring" forms.
Suddenly "difference" was highlighted.
People were lumped into imagined "Communities" - where amazingly all with the same skin colour or heritage supposedly shared identical views and experiences.

An "industry" in victim-hood was born .....
...needing increased occurrences or "offence" to sustain it.

Hence an ever increasing numbers of reports of "hate" crimes.... (requiring mind-reading)
....apparently requiring no witnesses or corroboration.


Is constantly highlighting "difference" (by pigeon-holing people by ethnicity) the way to encourage "tolerance" and "enlightment"....
.....especially in such a sectarian way as BLM ?

Surely "culture" is a much bigger driver of "difference" ?
(...which can lead either to discrimination or to celebration. )

Again.
Equality of treatment should mean what it says.(y)
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You seem to be going to great lengths to persuade that there are very few discrimination problems for black people in todays UK.
Do you feel footballers who work in a highly multicultural career are wrong to try and persuade people otherwise and to modernise the next generation's attitude?
I worked for a large company before I retired early 5 years ago. At a lunch with one of the older senior managers he boasted that any job application he received from someone with a foreign sounding name went straight in the bin. We nearly came to blows as I exposed his awful racism. So forgive me if I don't accept that there is very little racism negatively affecting the life chances of BAME folk.
 
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I agree that wars are fought for political reasons. Remembering those who died (and had no choice but to fight in those wars, whether they agree with them or not) is not, IMO, political.
I also agree that those who don't want to wear a poppy, for whatever reason, shouldn't have to. However, to refuse will always attract negative response, just as refusing to take a knee will from certain quarters. Its all about choice and as long as you are happy to accept the consequences, you should be able to chose to do what you like.
 
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