valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
Sky news aren't giving up either.
They haven't called people who boo'ed racists yet , but that's their implication.
Would be Millwall, wouldn`t it ?
- Thread starter LancsGordoRoad
- Start date
Sky news aren't giving up either.
They haven't called people who boo'ed racists yet , but that's their implication.
townendgill
Vital Reserves Team
The founders and (admittedly self appointed) leadership of BLM in the USA describe themselves as "trained marxists". That's the words of one of them, not mine, or anyone elses on this board. To what extent this "leadership" speaks for the movement is to be debated but to the extent that BLM has a public face, they are it. I wouldn't personally wear a BLM shirt or carry a BLM flag, if I were a sportsman I wouldn't kneel, either, because I wouldn't like to be seen to follow a Fidel Castro apologist (the NFL player who started kneeling as a protest, Colin Kaepernick). That doesn't mean I'm racist, It doesn't mean I don't believe racism exists or that it isn't a problem. It's possible to not be racist and also have misgivings about BLM (or it's self appointed leadership, to be precise).
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Really good post, but it's easy to say on the internet that you wouldn't take the knee if you were a pro sportsman. In real life, it would be a career killer to take a stand against the moral minority.
Kaepernick hasn't played in the NFL since
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
Agreed , one would soon find oneself 'cancelled'.
jogills
Vital Football Hero
How many times does it need to be said that the BLM organisation in the US does not own English words and their meaning. They have no control over us and we need pay no allegiance to them. This has nothing to do with Marxism,Cuba,the US and all to do with our sportsmen and women, who wish to take a stand.
The only T shirts and flags I sport nowadays come from the club shop.
The only T shirts and flags I sport nowadays come from the club shop.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Are you saying that the "Black Lives Matter' logo that Sky Sports carries hasn't originated from the US, and the death of George Floyd?
I find it impossible to believe that every footballer that kneels down (Cavani!) "wants" to make a stand. They have to, there is no independent choice
I am interested if people decide that black lives no longer matter, and stop the kneeling?
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
Josef Goebbels
Ahem... ...red bus... ...no deal is better than a bad deal... ...easiest deal in history... ...exact same benefits.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
That sounds like a definition of religion. I always wonder when I see pictures of packed churches and mosques (usually in third world countries) whether everyone actually believes their life is controlled by an invisible being, or is everyone just too scared to be the first one to question.
Ignorance is bliss sometimes
townendgill
Vital Reserves Team
This leads me to a question. Is "Black Lives Matter" a statement? a political movement? A combination of both? If it's simply a three word statement, I'd like to believe the majority of people would agree (as I do), and to be quite honest, if it's a political movement with "leaders" who are marxists I'd not want to support it, or to be seen to.
About if not conforming would lead to people being "cancelled" I'd say that the twitter mob don't have the power that they did at their zenith. Some F1 drivers decided to kneel at the first few GP's, some didn't and it went....fine? Lewis Hamilton kind of moaned about it in a diplomatic fashion and then the controversy just went away. And that was at close (just after IIRC) to the height of the George Floyd protests.
As far as I'm concerned it is a statement. It seems to have been hijacked by some in the USA as some kind of supposedly Marxist movement. That doesn't mean it is, and certainly not in the UK. In the UK I believe it is a statement. We can't stop some people latching on to it and claiming it means whetever they want it to be.
It isn't all about honouring George Floyd. His death sparked the creation of the phrase but as far as I know players are not specifically honouring George Floyd when they take the knee.
I can't understand why people are so upset by it, resent it or want to boo.
It isn't all about honouring George Floyd. His death sparked the creation of the phrase but as far as I know players are not specifically honouring George Floyd when they take the knee.
I can't understand why people are so upset by it, resent it or want to boo.
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
George Floyd's death did not create the phrase BLM.
It first appeared in 2016 , funnily enough a year when Trump was running for president.
It then returned in 2020.
Nobby_66
Vital Football Hero
For me, its all in the grammar.
Black Lives Matter
Or
Black lives matter.
One is a political movement, the other is a statement which, of course is true and I don't think anyone would argue. People decide which they want to "follow".
Jo said "BLM organisation in the US does not own English words and their meaning. They have no control over us and we need pay no allegiance to them." Which is true when referring to BLM. To say America has no control over ALL of us is not quite true though. BLM in the states became a massively anti police movement due to the number of Black men's deaths at the hands of the police. Some in this country decided that Blm here should be BLM even though there is nowhere near that level of racial divide here between police and Black men. This resulted in massive amounts of graffiti around cities claiming "Police murder blacks and ACAB" etc.(Anyone remember the "Blue lives murder" t shirts on Amazon that Lancs posted about? They were being manufactured and sold by a British company.)
Blm protesters here were, generally very peaceful, I posted at the time that I had many good interactions with some of them but BLM protesters decided to hijack those demos by jumping on the American bandwagon as if Police here murdered Black guys every five minutes.
For me, the whole thing has been lost in transatlantic translation.
As for footballers kneeling, thats a personal choice but I wouldn't fancy being the first to publicly refuse simply because they would (wrongly in my opinion) be accused by some of being racist.
Black Lives Matter
Or
Black lives matter.
One is a political movement, the other is a statement which, of course is true and I don't think anyone would argue. People decide which they want to "follow".
Jo said "BLM organisation in the US does not own English words and their meaning. They have no control over us and we need pay no allegiance to them." Which is true when referring to BLM. To say America has no control over ALL of us is not quite true though. BLM in the states became a massively anti police movement due to the number of Black men's deaths at the hands of the police. Some in this country decided that Blm here should be BLM even though there is nowhere near that level of racial divide here between police and Black men. This resulted in massive amounts of graffiti around cities claiming "Police murder blacks and ACAB" etc.(Anyone remember the "Blue lives murder" t shirts on Amazon that Lancs posted about? They were being manufactured and sold by a British company.)
Blm protesters here were, generally very peaceful, I posted at the time that I had many good interactions with some of them but BLM protesters decided to hijack those demos by jumping on the American bandwagon as if Police here murdered Black guys every five minutes.
For me, the whole thing has been lost in transatlantic translation.
As for footballers kneeling, thats a personal choice but I wouldn't fancy being the first to publicly refuse simply because they would (wrongly in my opinion) be accused by some of being racist.
nitram77
Vital 1st Team Regular
I have always supported the "Kick it out" stance taken in football, for me that is a very inclusive statement.
Black, Asian, minority ethnic, gay, Trans, it covers all discrimination against all groups, we don't need another politically motivated group trying to cause division.
Black, Asian, minority ethnic, gay, Trans, it covers all discrimination against all groups, we don't need another politically motivated group trying to cause division.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
I suspect it is the repetition and the fact that it holds up the game, albeit very briefly. It is more of an irritation than upsetting.
Whether intentional or not, I also interpret it as implying that all white people should be ashamed of something when the vast majority are decent and have always wanted equal rights.
As Nitram says, everyone is aware of Kick it Out and its initiatives. Taking the knee is actually a bit of an insult to the effectiveness of their campaign.
mehmets_curlies
Vital Squad Member
I think we need to look on the positive side and say well done to the majority of supporters that have been allowed to attend matches and behaved in a respectful way. As for the behaviour of the Millwall fans, I don't think anyone is surprised by their actions, but obviously their history is filled with anti-marxist philosophies. So, I guess that is why they behaved as they did
As an aside, wasn't it great to see supporters back in grounds supporting their clubs and calling the referee all sorts of names. Lovely stuff. I haven't been to see The Gills for a couple of years and I can't wait to get myself back down there. C'mon you Medway dwellers, get those bloody masks on....
As an aside, wasn't it great to see supporters back in grounds supporting their clubs and calling the referee all sorts of names. Lovely stuff. I haven't been to see The Gills for a couple of years and I can't wait to get myself back down there. C'mon you Medway dwellers, get those bloody masks on....
Suffolk Gills
Vital Youth Team
The recent messages on here have summed up very well how, I think, most decent people regard taking the knee at matches. Personally I now find it irritating - just as I would have found it irritating if we were still clapping for the NHS on Thursday nights - it doesn't diminish the original message though.
madrid_gill
Vital 1st Team Regular
Well if that's the case, when things return to normal, I look forward to booing the pre-match handshakes.
Baghdad_Rob
Vital 1st Team Regular
Here is BLM co-founder Patrisse Cullors on video clearly stating that she and Alicia Garza are trained Marxist. I am assuming that the third founder Opal Tometi is also Marxist.
Despite the actual co-founder admitting it, BLM being Marxist is a right wing conspiracy according to the left. The BLM organisation structure is such that literature and direction is top to the bottom with local BLM cells having to sign up agreeing to the directives from above.
The average person who bends the knee is doing so on the basis of the slogan with zero understanding that they are being manipulated by the leadership of BLM the organisation.
Baghdad_Rob
Vital 1st Team Regular
Actually BLM were created in 2013 after the police officers involved in the death of Trayvon Martin were found not guilty in court. People think it started in 2016 as a political response to Trump while ignoring all the *modern* race issues ironically started under Obama.
