Smell the Bullshit | Page 4 | Vital Football

Smell the Bullshit

Degsy1 said:
I think you could be right - probably chased off by our Adminisrators and gone for Wrexham instead ! see link below:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54274142
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Jesus Christ, more conspiracy theories that makes an episode of Scooby Doo sound realistic. Yeah, I’m sure Ryan Reynolds has nothing more important to do than sit on Twitter and scroll through the WAFC timeline anxiously.

Anyone who have backed off of buying the club from a position of serious interest have done so for one reason and one reason only...the price. Apart from Smurf, who having had his fair share of Twitter spats with Vale fans during his last jaunt owning a club, probably has a private account and upon a quick search of the understandable response to his interest, shit himself.

Don’t waste your valuable energy arguing with each other on bullshit. The Americans are long gone, so move on. The club’s going bust and its time the admins put this dying dog out of its misery because no one is paying 4 million quid for a club on its way to League Two with zero assists and no stadium income for the next six months minimum. It’s over!
 
C_Latic said:
Jesus Christ, more conspiracy theories that makes an episode of Scooby Doo sound realistic. Yeah, I’m sure Ryan Reynolds has nothing more important to do than sit on Twitter and scroll through the WAFC timeline anxiously.

Anyone who have backed off of buying the club from a position of serious interest have done so for one reason and one reason only...the price. Apart from Smurf, who having had his fair share of Twitter spats with Vale fans during his last jaunt owning a club, probably has a private account and upon a quick search of the understandable response to his interest, shit himself.

Don’t waste your valuable energy arguing with each other on bullshit. The Americans are long gone, so move on. The club’s going bust and its time the admins put this dying dog out of its misery because no one is paying 4 million quid for a club on its way to League Two with zero assists and no stadium income for the next six months minimum. It’s over!
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Its not the individuals looking at buying us that do this. Companies have social media monitoring (or there are lots of services that do it) to try and gauge the feeling of customers about mergers, takeovers etc. Its a very standard practise in the USA and becoming much more common in the UK. They generally get a "mood" with a positivity rating with a summary provided.
 
Wlatic said:
That's what I'm saying Nixon said the bid had been submitted (thats going to be based on what he was told), the admins said the bid wasnt submitted until the end of the week. Nixon was right about the bid eventually being submitted, but wrong about the timing (if we believe the admins).

The admin staff would have had prior knowledge based on the talks that have been taking place:

"Despite being in constant communication with the French-Americans, no such bid was received that day."

So plenty of talk going on and I'd be surprised if the admins were surprised about the bid that came in.

Something else to point out:
"Fans will appreciate that no income has been received and no season ticket sales have taken place." this is incorrect:

- The club shop
- The crowd funding campaign
- Wigan Supporters Trust
- Money held in the bank accounts
- Loan Fees
- Player Addon Fees
- Furlough Money from the government

That is all income which has made its way into the administration.
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Sorry, I still can't see that it came from anywhere else but the bidders due to the timing.

As far as your list of income streams goes, The income from the club shop would be minor in comparison to what would be required, I seriously doubt that they will be making any profit at present given the current situation.

I am unsure about the Trust and Crowd funding campaigns but I am not aware of any money being transferred in other than the money to pay the staff wages and transport costs, all of which the admins have taken as a loan, therefore not income.

They stated at the outset that the bank accounts were all but empty and the club was running on its overdraft facility.

The money for add ons is being held by the EFL along with the Solidarity payment.

The furlough money would have more or less been stopped when we made the majority of the staff redundant and brought the players back in for training.

I appreciate that you will say that this is not factual as you said with the statement about the wages, however I am sure that they were talking in general terms and in general they have had no "real" income. Again it is semantics not lies.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
How could you have an inkling of who your rival bidders were in this instance unless someone told you? If you were a large IT company bidding for a contract you could have a educated guess on who your general competitors are - there are thousands of people in the IT industry and most move around the top companies so finding one of them willing to share more than they should with former colleagues inevitably happens. But when you are buying a football club it could be anyone in the world bidding, there is no way of knowing unless someone within the camps involved leaks.

The story just doesn't add up, add that to admins history of contradicting themselves it sounds to me like they are preparing a scapegoats for their impending failure to sell us.
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You are not seeing my point KDZ, they would not need to know who was bidding against them, it would be in the mind of the alleged bidder that had pulled out that because of the "leaked" information regarding the Americans bid that his name could be leaked in the same way.

The fact that the admins have continually contradicted themselves as you are saying would have nothing to do with what I am putting forward. I am merely presenting an opinion that could explain a reason for a bidder to pull out that would possibly explain the statement made. Whether you wish to accept it or not it is my opinion and I believe it is feasible.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
You are not seeing my point KDZ, they would not need to know who was bidding against them, it would be in the mind of the alleged bidder that had pulled out that because of the "leaked" information regarding the Americans bid that his name could be leaked in the same way.

The fact that the admins have continually contradicted themselves as you are saying would have nothing to do with what I am putting forward. I am merely presenting an opinion that could explain a reason for a bidder to pull out that would possibly explain the statement made. Whether you wish to accept it or not it is my opinion and I believe it is feasible.
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Are these contradictions or just made up rubbish from those who's every word you hang on to


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TRUE BELIEVER said:
You are not seeing my point KDZ, they would not need to know who was bidding against them, it would be in the mind of the alleged bidder that had pulled out that because of the "leaked" information regarding the Americans bid that his name could be leaked in the same way.

The fact that the admins have continually contradicted themselves as you are saying would have nothing to do with what I am putting forward. I am merely presenting an opinion that could explain a reason for a bidder to pull out that would possibly explain the statement made. Whether you wish to accept it or not it is my opinion and I believe it is feasible.
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If the American's choose to give their own info to the press then it doesn't have any baring on anyone else.

Imagine before all of this if we wanted to buy a player and his club had been difficult to deal with and wont budge from their asking price of 4m, we've managed to keep it out of the press so far and we agree to pay the asking price. The bid is accepted and just before we pay the money a rival bidder leaks to the press they are going to offer 2m - you'd shrug your shoulders and carry on with your plans - there is zero reason to pull out of the deal. You have to do serious mental gynmastics with logic to make admins scenario work on face value.

Admin consantly rewriting their version of events and contradicting themselves has everything to do with it - they have burned through their credability to the point everything they say can't be taken at face value. When they told us there were 4 bidders at the very start, if i said they were not telling the truth you'd almost certainly say 'why would they say it if it wasn't true, they are making a statement on record so they'd be in trouble if they made a false statement, etc' but in a recent interview they said there was only 1 bidder - completely undermining their previous statement quite significantly. So how can we take anything they say seriously now if they weren't accurate on that?

I was like you at the start giving them the benefit of the doubt but they destroyed any faith i had in them with their own incosistenties. At first it was the odd one or two minor things that made me pause but i thought 'probably just a misunderstanding' but the stories kept changing, more often and more dramatically and i got to the point it's impossible to have any trust in their word anymore IMO.

There may have been a bidder that pulled out, but their version of events makes zero sense, combined with everything else they've said i find it near impossible to believe it.
 
You are my sunshine said:
Just a thought, Wrexham have just announced 2 Hollywood stars as potential investors. Wonder if they were the ones Krasner was referring to who agreed a deal with us and withdrew at the last minute?
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The bigger question is, what makes Wrexham a better investment than us?! I'm sure they've got their qualities, but really?! A conference team that will have £2mil invested into it ... or a Lg1 team for double that amount that has a recent history of being in the Prem (thus one would assume a slightly more elevated profile as a result), more newer stadium/facilities and winning the FA Cup. Not even just saying this as a fan, but I think we're the better investment to be honest
 
Scharnerarma said:
The bigger question is, what makes Wrexham a better investment than us?! I'm sure they've got their qualities, but really?! A conference team that will have £2mil invested into it ... or a Lg1 team for double that amount that has a recent history of being in the Prem (thus one would assume a slightly more elevated profile as a result), more newer stadium/facilities and winning the FA Cup. Not even just saying this as a fan, but I think we're the better investment to be honest
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All depends on reason for investing:
Wrexham - easy purchase process, low initial outlay, low running costs, long term investment, healthy finance position, long history.
WAFC - unprofessional sellers, £8.5m initial outlay (includes £5m ? bond), guaranteed annual loss of the stadium, need i say more?
 
Scharnerarma said:
The bigger question is, what makes Wrexham a better investment than us?! I'm sure they've got their qualities, but really?! A conference team that will have £2mil invested into it ... or a Lg1 team for double that amount that has a recent history of being in the Prem (thus one would assume a slightly more elevated profile as a result), more newer stadium/facilities and winning the FA Cup. Not even just saying this as a fan, but I think we're the better investment to be honest
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Wrexham is a random team to buy so it may be that the buyers have some type of personal connection to them.

You certainly wouldn't buy Wrexham to make money or chase glory.
 
N"Zogbia's fan club said:
All depends on reason for investing:
Wrexham - easy purchase process, low initial outlay, low running costs, long term investment, healthy finance position, long history.
WAFC - unprofessional sellers, £8.5m initial outlay (includes £5m ? bond), guaranteed annual loss of the stadium, need i say more?
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The £5m would be fair enough if it applied to all clubs from a starting date. In any case wouldn't clubs have to vote to agree it ? As the salary cap of £2.5m which drives it is not agreed and under challenged why is it even a thing ?
Not sure how many L1 L2 and some Championship clubs could jump that hurdle right now.
As always since this mayhem started we seem to be at the shitty end of the stick with this.
 
Hampton said:
The £5m would be fair enough if it applied to all clubs from a starting date. In any case wouldn't clubs have to vote to agree it ? As the salary cap of £2.5m which drives it is not agreed and under challenged why is it even a thing ?
Not sure how many L1 L2 and some Championship clubs could jump that hurdle right now.
As always since this mayhem started we seem to be at the shitty end of the stick with this.
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Agree. Also salary cap does not include currently contracted and under 18s if I'm not mistaken.
Don't know why the Administrators voluntarily put up such barriers/restrictions - to chase off prospective buyers?
Do listen to the PWU podcast this week - the contributor from Portsmouth made some sound points.
 
N"Zogbia's fan club said:
All depends on reason for investing:
Wrexham - easy purchase process, low initial outlay, low running costs, long term investment, healthy finance position, long history.
WAFC - unprofessional sellers, £8.5m initial outlay (includes £5m ? bond), guaranteed annual loss of the stadium, need i say more?
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I see the logic, but two big names like that won't be buying Wrexham to keep them ticking over in the Conference, so the assumption has to be they'll be striving for promotion to the football league (meaning increased running costs and investment). And if that's the case, and this bond thing gets introduced, they'll have to put a bond up anyway. Granted our stadium is loss making, but there is the potential that the commercial benefits of being owned by a big international name will increase club revenue enough to cover those stadium losses.

I still see us as a better prospect, but maybe KDZ is right, maybe they do have some sort of link to Wrexham or something ... But who can tell. Either way, best of look to Wrexham and their probable new quest to become the biggest Welsh club in the English football league!
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Sorry, I still can't see that it came from anywhere else but the bidders due to the timing.

As far as your list of income streams goes, The income from the club shop would be minor in comparison to what would be required, I seriously doubt that they will be making any profit at present given the current situation.

I am unsure about the Trust and Crowd funding campaigns but I am not aware of any money being transferred in other than the money to pay the staff wages and transport costs, all of which the admins have taken as a loan, therefore not income.

They stated at the outset that the bank accounts were all but empty and the club was running on its overdraft facility.

The money for add ons is being held by the EFL along with the Solidarity payment.

The furlough money would have more or less been stopped when we made the majority of the staff redundant and brought the players back in for training.

I appreciate that you will say that this is not factual as you said with the statement about the wages, however I am sure that they were talking in general terms and in general they have had no "real" income. Again it is semantics not lies.
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Its 100% not semantics, its a factually incorrect statement.

I can categorically say the income streams I've posted are 100% correct and this is as of early August. You are saying "will have stopped" they made a statement a further clarified the time this included
"Fans will appreciate that no income has been received and no season ticket sales have taken place. We have therefore had to pay June, July and August wages out of the player sales and these amounts included wage deferrals from early in the season plus a month’s salary at Championship rates to all players who left."
They've had over £575k income from different sources from July 1st to early August, would you say that's still semantics ?

Do you have a quote for the bank account being empty? That would be another inconsistency/something thats factually incorrect.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
If the American's choose to give their own info to the press then it doesn't have any baring on anyone else.

Imagine before all of this if we wanted to buy a player and his club had been difficult to deal with and wont budge from their asking price of 4m, we've managed to keep it out of the press so far and we agree to pay the asking price. The bid is accepted and just before we pay the money a rival bidder leaks to the press they are going to offer 2m - you'd shrug your shoulders and carry on with your plans - there is zero reason to pull out of the deal. You have to do serious mental gynmastics with logic to make admins scenario work on face value.

Admin consantly rewriting their version of events and contradicting themselves has everything to do with it - they have burned through their credability to the point everything they say can't be taken at face value. When they told us there were 4 bidders at the very start, if i said they were not telling the truth you'd almost certainly say 'why would they say it if it wasn't true, they are making a statement on record so they'd be in trouble if they made a false statement, etc' but in a recent interview they said there was only 1 bidder - completely undermining their previous statement quite significantly. So how can we take anything they say seriously now if they weren't accurate on that?

I was like you at the start giving them the benefit of the doubt but they destroyed any faith i had in them with their own incosistenties. At first it was the odd one or two minor things that made me pause but i thought 'probably just a misunderstanding' but the stories kept changing, more often and more dramatically and i got to the point it's impossible to have any trust in their word anymore IMO.

There may have been a bidder that pulled out, but their version of events makes zero sense, combined with everything else they've said i find it near impossible to believe it.
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I'd disagree with this. If this is middle eastern business men it would bring shame on their name to be rejected by the EFL, so makes perfect sense they'd want to keep their name away from the press until that was passed.

It would also mean they think the leak wasn't coming directly from the American bid and they didnt trust the administrator to not leak them (Junior staff are a nightmare for leaks).

Can you get me the quotes for the bidders stuff? That'd be a good one for the inconsistencies thread.
 
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