Brexit rolls on... | Page 42 | Vital Football

Brexit rolls on...

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JC21 said:
The 'centrists' don't seem to be doing too well at the minute (of course it's still Corbyn's fault)

https://www.survation.com/survation-political-poll-3-august-2020/
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You are confusing Labour with centrists.

At the moment a lot of these polls are based on how well people think the Tories are handling Covid and Brexit. Brexit has gone quiet and for some reason people seem to think they are doing a good job with Covid so of course their popularity goes up while Labours goes down.

Labour currently have a bit of an identity crisis as a hangover of the Corbyn years and there is still a power struggle and the accusations of anti-semi risk etc. The current polls are a reflection of that too.

We won’t get a proper picture for a while yet I don’t think.
 
Without going full on jc21, it is still worth pointing out that consumerism- knowing how to spend- is wrapped up in both capitalism and Keynesian economics.

People have been offered cheap money for decades now and been encouraged to spend. Look at the current food scheme.

Not like the retired have not been at the vanguard of consumerism (as the relatively most affluent generation and life cycle stage you have all the disposable income). Indeed your generation has done much to deepen and develop it.

So not only is the idea of profligate young people a myth, its a downright piss take really.
 
radfordinlondon said:
Without going full on jc21, it is still worth pointing out that consumerism- knowing how to spend- is wrapped up in both capitalism and Keynesian economics.

People have been offered cheap money for decades now and been encouraged to spend. Look at the current food scheme.

Not like the retired have not been at the vanguard of consumerism (as the relatively most affluent generation and life cycle stage you have all the disposable income). Indeed your generation has done much to deepen and develop it.

So not only is the idea of profligate young people a myth, its a downright piss take really.
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I was going to post something like this myself.
Disposable income is hard to come by when everything is being sold to you as a monthly subscription. You can't even just buy a phone any more, you need to commit 20 quid a month for a year or two.
Companies have become so psychologically aware of how to extract maximum money from people and young people aren't generally taught how to deal with all that.
 
radfordinlondon said:
It is no longer possible to do what you orf and thats the point. You have to declare the second loan these days or be guilty of fraud.
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Yes, understood radford, more than one way of skinning a cat though. I've done worse than that and at times worked 3 jobs in order to fix something. I'm not saying that we're sitting pretty even now but we are able to get by without a struggle and my wife is talking about downsizing and as we're sitting on a fairly valuable 5 acre block in a good neighbourhood the future looks good. The point that I was trying to make is that to do any good at any time you have to get off your arse and I'm quite sure I don't have to tell you that.
 
radfordinlondon said:
You have been told before but it's worth restating [the boomer generation] never had it so good [relatively to current generations].

People are repeating all of the things you describe but the parameters have changed. At the most basic, although people earn more money than 2 shillings and sixpence a week; house prices have risen many times more.

The essence of what pope is saying is that younger generations can be just as thrifting, hard working and conscientious but get less than previous generations. This is where the rub lies.
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I can only speak from my own experience and when I paid £7500 for a little house in 1978 it seemed like a lot of money to me on 45 quid a week.
That little house in Long Eaton would now sell for about 130k and where I worked, until retirement last year, again in Long Eaton, young couples, earning just above the minimum wage were saving up for a couple of years and paying a 20k deposit on that sort of place, basically just like we did.
The sort of people that I'm talking about came to work on cycles, unlike some others there, proudly rolling up with their shiny 5 year old BMWs and moaning about the cost of housing.
 
flipleflem said:
I can only speak from my own experience and when I paid £7500 for a little house in 1978 it seemed like a lot of money to me on 45 quid a week.
That little house in Long Eaton would now sell for about 130k and where I worked, until retirement last year, again in Long Eaton, young couples, earning just above the minimum wage were saving up for a couple of years and paying a 20k deposit on that sort of place, basically just like we did.
The sort of people that I'm talking about came to work on cycles, unlike some others there, proudly rolling up with their shiny 5 year old BMWs and moaning about the cost of housing.
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No young couples on minimum wage saved up £20k in a couple of years, whether in long eaton or anywhere else. Nor would minimum wage earners likely be granted a 180k mortgage
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No young couples on minimum wage saved up £20k in a couple of years, whether in long eaton or anywhere else. Nor would minimum wage earners likely be granted a 180k mortgage
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M ex and I managed to get a 140k mortgage about 7 years ago when i was a support worker and she was a teaching assistant. We needed money from her dad for the deposit though because saving while paying rent on those wages was impossible.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No young couples on minimum wage saved up £20k in a couple of years, whether in long eaton or anywhere else. Nor would minimum wage earners likely be granted a 180k mortgage
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Depends where you live of course. £5k a year each should be fairly doable if you live at home with parents , which most people used to do, and probably more likely that minimum wage workers still do. I guess nowadays as more people go to Uni the average age of leaving home is lower.
 
i am a tree said:
M ex and I managed to get a 140k mortgage about 7 years ago when i was a support worker and she was a teaching assistant. We needed money from her dad for the deposit though because saving while paying rent on those wages was impossible.
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Exactly

I'm on the housing ladder because of a small inheritance from an uncle, which was twice what we had been able to save in 5 years
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Exactly

I'm on the housing ladder because of a small inheritance from an uncle, which was twice what we had been able to save in 5 years
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Its the only way. Everyone I know who has a mortgage got their deposit from their parents.
Its not something to complain at boomers about, but they should be aware that in today's world you can't really save for a deposit unless you are earning the average wage or more at a young age.
In alot of ways the world created by boomers is one in which young people are completely dependent on them for stability and safety, which is interesting because that's exactly the kind of thing boomers seem to hate and complain about.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No young couples on minimum wage saved up £20k in a couple of years, whether in long eaton or anywhere else. Nor would minimum wage earners likely be granted a 180k mortgage
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Sorry, where did I mention an 180k mortgage? The couple (polish) that I'm talking about told me that they had saved for a deposit in 2 years o
 
flipleflem said:
Sorry, where did I mention an 180k mortgage? The couple (polish) that I'm talking about told me that they had saved for a deposit in 2 years o
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Deposits are 10% more or less as a minimum

If they are saving 20k then it's a fair assumption it is a 200k house. Fair enough if that isn't correct, but it was a reasonable assumption. My point still stands though
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Deposits are 10% more or less as a minimum

If they are saving 20k then it's a fair assumption it is a 200k house. Fair enough if that isn't correct, but it was a reasonable assumption. My point still stands though
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Pope John XXIII said:
Deposits are 10% more or less as a minimum

If they are saving 20k then it's a fair assumption it is a 200k house. Fair enough if that isn't correct, but it was a reasonable assumption. My point still stands though
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I was referring to the sort of house that I originally bought and I mentioned that they now fetch about 130k. A 20k deposit scraped together whilst living in a shared house, with another couple, shared rent of £300 each.
Take the 20k deposit off the price of the house and you're left with a mortgage of 110k. This wasn't just a solitary couple, there were numerous hard working, low wage earning people doing exactly this.
Then there are the ones with the BMWs on finance
 
flipleflem said:
I was referring to the sort of house that I originally bought and I mentioned that they now fetch about 130k. A 20k deposit scraped together whilst living in a shared house, with another couple, shared rent of £300 each.
Take the 20k deposit off the price of the house and you're left with a mortgage of 110k. This wasn't just a solitary couple, there were numerous hard working, low wage earning people doing exactly this.
Then there are the ones with the BMWs on finance
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Why would you save 20k when you need 13?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Exactly

I'm on the housing ladder because of a small inheritance from an uncle, which was twice what we had been able to save in 5 years
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I sold my car to get a deposit for my last house and then saved for a 10 year old car to get me through when I got fed up of public transport.
 
flipleflem said:
I was referring to the sort of house that I originally bought and I mentioned that they now fetch about 130k. A 20k deposit scraped together whilst living in a shared house, with another couple, shared rent of £300 each.
Take the 20k deposit off the price of the house and you're left with a mortgage of 110k. This wasn't just a solitary couple, there were numerous hard working, low wage earning people doing exactly this.
Then there are the ones with the BMWs on finance
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I do have some sympathy with this view. I see lots of 20 somethings driving around in brand new cars and then moaning that they can’t afford to save or get a mortgage.

There is a choice to be made here and my sympathies lie firmly with the youngsters who do everything right, scrimp and save and still can’t get on the ladder.
 
Basha73 said:
I do have some sympathy with this view. I see lots of 20 somethings driving around in brand new cars and then moaning that they can’t afford to save or get a mortgage.

There is a choice to be made here and my sympathies lie firmly with the youngsters who do everything right, scrimp and save and still can’t get on the ladder.
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A lot of younger people don't even bother. They resign themselves to renting and decide to enjoy their 20s rather than spending a decade or more with low quality of living for something that they might still never be able to have.

I couldn't argue with them. Like I said, my house has increased in value 30% in 5 years. You would need about 4.5k more deposit to buy my house now than 5 years ago. That could easily be another 4-5 years of saving added on to the 5 years they might already have done and the 3-4 years more they might have been expecting.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
A lot of younger people don't even bother. They resign themselves to renting and decide to enjoy their 20s rather than spending a decade or more with low quality of living for something that they might still never be able to have.

I couldn't argue with them. Like I said, my house has increased in value 30% in 5 years. You would need about 4.5k more deposit to buy my house now than 5 years ago. That could easily be another 4-5 years of saving added on to the 5 years they might already have done and the 3-4 years more they might have been expecting.
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And if that’s their decision then fair play but there is an element of wanting both as the world encourages materialism.

What is beyond dispute is how difficult it is now even if you are focussed and have a decent job.

Had I wanted to when I was in my 20s I could have bought a 3 bed house on my own and I was a lowly civil servant. It would have been tight but I could have done it.

I have had a couple of promotions since then and I could just about scrape a 3 bed house in the worst parts of the area I live in. The only advantage I would have now is the interest rate but how much longer will that last...?
 
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