#COVID19

[Pope John XXIII]

127, 722 tests have been done today.

Johnson said he wanted 200,000 by the end of May.

Wait for a sudden, inexplicable 73,000 test jump tomorrow followed by a drop back to 130,000 a day

 

[Polly 433]

It's not a number pulled out if the air. 100 Tory MPs have criticised his actions to their constituents and I think 41 have directly called for him to resign. Look it up yourself. Theresa May's letter was published yesterday.

I wasn't aware that the Daily Mail had an ex Labour activist at the helm. I think Geordie Grieg will be very surprised to hear that.

With this MSM bollocks you are just parroting Trump. You are making an enemy of journalists, who ultimately are there for the governed, not the governor's. You are listing to pricks like Trump and Johnson who don't like to be questioned and swallowing their crap that the media are your enemy. They are not. Shutting down arguments and instantly dismissing opinions you don't like doesn't make you right.

Grieg was and is a staunch remainer. Unlike Dacre. Neither could be said to be left of centre. The media are setting themselves up to be the enemy of everyone. They support early lockdown and staying open at the same time. They now support staying locked and returning to normalality at the same time. Whatever happens they are in the privileged position of being able to say “we told you so”. Holding to account is one thing but backing all horses is another.

 

[Lienking]

But nothing from Starmer. Labour need to come out and force the govt to re-think this easing of lock down.

Starmer was pushing the Tories to come up with an end of lockdown plan well before they actually did. Labour in Wales have ended the lockdown in a similar way. How can he then seriously oppose it ?

 

[mao tse tung]

I am being honest that this whole saga is being driven / fuelled by MSM who dislike DC .
I agree his reasoning is totally flawed and full of holes but has he done anything worse than thousands of others ?? No he hasn't .
Virtually every editor within MSM be it TV or Press have a left wing ex labour party activist at that helm . That is fact .
Unlike the pull a number out the air about Tory MP's upset with DC .

I do not know what your definition of honesty is but it is not even second cousin to that published by the OED.

This saga, as you put it, is being driven by an individual breaking guidelines he helped frame, and then lying through his teeth in an attempt to mitigate his actions.

He may or may not have committed a criminal offence but he is certainly guilty of hypocrisy.

If you are not sure what hypocrisy is, I will give you another example:

Imagine if you will, someone posting remarks attacking the members of a Forum complaining about "their lack of honesty and perpetual politicising of every event", and then, in his very next post, he is guilty of the very same.

And before you make a statement like "That is fact" it may pay to check your facts, because you were totally incorrect.

 

[mao tse tung]

Starmer was pushing the Tories to come up with an end of lockdown plan well before they actually did. Labour in Wales have ended the lockdown in a similar way. How can he then seriously oppose it ?

Well lets just think about that for one minute; which will be a considerably longer period than the amount of time you spent thinking about it.

Pushing the Government for an end of Lockdown Plan is his Job.

Coming up with a Lockdown Plan is the Governments Job.

To get everyone's buy in you need to have a credible Plan; if the Plan is not fit for purpose Starmer will not agree to it.

Its not Rocket Surgery, Rodney

 

[JC21]

How are they going to force the government to do anything?

Starmer is toeing a clever line on this one. He is attempting from day one to do what Corbyn never even attempted to do; win over Tory voters.

The talk has always been about winning back the red wall. But the best that gets you us back to 260 seats. If he can win over conservative casuals he'll be hitting the marks to bring back the red wall anyway.

So he is being very careful not to do opposition for opposition's sake, nor challenge policies that are popular. Whatever the polls say, people do want things to be opening up and they want to at least pretend this can be put behind them. What people don't want is more depressing Guardian Journalists taking about "the new normal".

If he opposed easing the lockdown he'll be labeled as the leader and party that wants to keep us all locked away; that wants to destroy the economy; that wants to keep people out of work, and that did nothing but obstruct a government doing its best in a crisis.

Already today I have seen a guy I know, who has lost both his father and daughter to this, sharing a post demanding that people show sympathy for Johnson and his "burden". My family don't get much more working class and they all sympathise with Johnson. Being the smarmy lawyer that goes against that isn't going to win back any red walls; it will entrench anti labour attitudes that have been allowed to build over 10 years or more.

And besides; why does Starmer need to risk opposing the lockdown when the scientists are doing it for him?

Starmer is trying to win back the Tory supporters that fucked off to them thanks to HIS (and others) constant undermining of Corbyn over Brexit.

If the People's Vote was the right way to go then why isn't he following the line of rejoining the EU now the Blairites have got rid of Corbyn? Why is he now saying that's not a policy he and the LP will follow? (in the meantime enabling 5 more years of Tory rule).

Starmer is an establishment dream. He's achieved nothing, the reason the establishment have took a shine to him is because he''s one of them. If he was anti-Zionist and anti-capitalist then it'd be a totally different matter.

Starmer, and the rest of them, knew that they had to play the long game and get rid of Corbyn first.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Starmer is trying to win back the Tory supporters that fucked off to them thanks to HIS (and others) constant undermining of Corbyn over Brexit.

If the People's Vote was the right way to go then why isn't he following the line of rejoining the EU now the Blairites have got rid of Corbyn? Why is he now saying that's not a policy he and the LP will follow? (in the meantime enabling 5 more years of Tory rule).

Starmer is an establishment dream. He's achieved nothing, the reason the establishment have took a shine to him is because he''s one of them. If he was anti-Zionist and anti-capitalist then it'd be a totally different matter.

Starmer, and the rest of them, knew that they had to play the long game and get rid of Corbyn first.

Corbyn got rid of himself by turning Labour into a Londoncentric party of the middle class whom virtually nobody trusted to deliver.

 

[JC21]

Corbyn got rid of himself by turning Labour into a Londoncentric party of the middle class whom virtually nobody trusted to deliver.

So how will Starmer (the architect of the People's Vote that lost the election for Labour) correct that?

 

[JC21]

....Corbyn didn't want it that way but he had no choice with the middle class, metropolitan, pro-EU membership and PLP. If Corbyn had had a party of Benns, Skinners, Castles, Foots, Shores, Galloways, etc it'd been an entirely different matter

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I don't think Corbyn was arrogant.
Labour should be protecting the workers. I wasn't saying that Starmer should force a vote through Parliament. I Just want to hear him say listen to the experts. The Tories have changed the goalposts with their tests. The R is rising again. And we've proof that schools re-opening in other countries are having to close.

Most people have elderly people and those more at rick of dying from Covid in their family. Many different generations living in the same household.

I am one of those who are more at risk. It's killing me to keep my two children off school. We made the decision to lock down before the govt. I've not been outside since. Am I selfish for keeping them off school?

You'd be surprised to know that I'm anti Tory!!
Am I not sending them back because of that? I don't think so... I think I'm going with the evidence that we've at the moment.

Starmer has been trying to 'force' the government to publish all the advice from SAGE. Right now none of us know exactly what the government is basing its decision making process on.

Are you being selfish? I guess that depends a little on the age of your children and how important school currently is. Again data is far from clear as to the best course of action.

As unpleasant as it might be there is also the option of self-isolating so they can return to normality.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Starmer is trying to win back the Tory supporters that fucked off to them thanks to HIS (and others) constant undermining of Corbyn over Brexit.

If the People's Vote was the right way to go then why isn't he following the line of rejoining the EU now the Blairites have got rid of Corbyn? Why is he now saying that's not a policy he and the LP will follow? (in the meantime enabling 5 more years of Tory rule).

Starmer is an establishment dream. He's achieved nothing, the reason the establishment have took a shine to him is because he''s one of them. If he was anti-Zionist and anti-capitalist then it'd be a totally different matter.

Starmer, and the rest of them, knew that they had to play the long game and get rid of Corbyn first.

Who are the establishment? Am I in the establishment? Is it a secret society, because I always fancied being in one.

Is the establishment just anyone you don't think you would like?

I thought the EU was the cause of all your troubles. Are you telling me it was this "establishment" all along?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

....Corbyn didn't want it that way but he had no choice with the middle class, metropolitan, pro-EU membership and PLP. If Corbyn had had a party of Benns, Skinners, Castles, Foots, Shores, Galloways, etc it'd been an entirely different matter

A leader has a responsibility to lead and take take people with him. He did neither on Brexit (or other issues)...

He focused on expanding the Labour party by engaging with the young and university towns (great) but they're overwhelmingly anti-Brexit. How was that ever going to work out?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

....Corbyn didn't want it that way but he had no choice with the middle class, metropolitan, pro-EU membership and PLP. If Corbyn had had a party of Benns, Skinners, Castles, Foots, Shores, Galloways, etc it'd been an entirely different matter

Whose manifesto was that abortion in December then?

It didn't read like a centrist establishment manifesto.

Very weak leadership if he can't even run his own party. No wonder he lost two elections

 

[JC21]

A leader has a responsibility to lead and take take people with him. He did neither on Brexit (or other issues)...

He focused on expanding the Labour party by engaging with the young and university towns (great) but they're overwhelmingly anti-Brexit. How was that ever going to work out?

Corbyn visited and campaigned in MANY working class towns. HE wasn't all about the middle class, the PARTY was. Let's move on from that though. How is the multi-millionaire, SIR Keir going to WIN back the working class? The extension to Brexit that is coming will certainly help him but that isn't down to HIM

 

[JC21]

Whose manifesto was that abortion in December then?

It didn't read like a centrist establishment manifesto.

Very weak leadership if he can't even run his own party. No wonder he lost two elections

It's fuck all to do with weak leadership. If 250 people in your party are against you from day 1 then what chance does ANYONE stand? Added to that is the media, banks and establishment.

Tell me honestly. If 200 MPs turn against Sir Keir now, do you think he'd survive?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Corbyn visited and campaigned in MANY working class towns. HE wasn't all about the middle class, the PARTY was. Let's move on from that though. How is the multi-millionaire, SIR Keir going to WIN back the working class? The extension to Brexit that is coming will certainly help him but that isn't down to HIM

My bad for giving him credit for expanding the membership amongst younger voters...

Btw much as you like to throw the term multi-millionaire around as an insult but you are aware that Corbyn is also?

As to the how, I suspect through engagement and offering a coherent vision of hope...poor people don't actually want to be poor btw

 

[JC21]

My bad for giving him credit for expanding the membership amongst younger voters...

Btw much as you like to throw the term multi-millionaire around as an insult but you are aware that Corbyn is also?

As to the how, I suspect through engagement and offering a coherent vision of hope...poor people don't actually want to be poor btw

I don't throw it around as an insult. I don't Corbyn is a multi-millionaire as he gave loads away. Corbyn has a record of fighting for social justice, all over the world, Starmer doesn't.

A 'vision of hope' to the millions that turned to the Tories because Labour neglected them (thanks to Starmer et al? Starmer will eventually win a general election but not because of HIM but because of natural cycles in politics, being part of the neoliberal establishment and the Tories eventual betrayal on Brexit.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Corbyn visited and campaigned in MANY working class towns. HE wasn't all about the middle class, the PARTY was. Let's move on from that though. How is the multi-millionaire, SIR Keir going to WIN back the working class? The extension to Brexit that is coming will certainly help him but that isn't down to HIM

If Keir Starmer is a multi millionaire, he made it all on his own. Just like the SIR you highlight (as if it's a bad thing) is something he earned in public service as the head of prosecutions.

How is he going to win back the working class?

First pre-requisite for that is to NOT be Jeremy Corbyn.

In four years time I suspect the second pre-requisite will be to not be Boris Johnson

 

[Pope John XXIII]

This is what he has achieved in two months

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I don't throw it around as an insult. I don't Corbyn is a multi-millionaire as he gave loads away. Corbyn has a record of fighting for social justice, all over the world, Starmer doesn't.

A 'vision of hope' to the millions that turned to the Tories because Labour neglected them (thanks to Starmer et al? Starmer will eventually win a general election but not because of HIM but because of natural cycles in politics, being part of the neoliberal establishment and the Tories eventual betrayal on Brexit.

You mean Corbyn who went to an expensive private school, who grew up in a huge upper class home, who owned expensive property in London as opposed to the son of a nurse and tool maker who went to a state school and earned everything for himself? Corbyn has a net worth of 3-4m btw.

Sure blame Starmer for Brexit, after all the Labour leader refused to actually lead on the subject...