Club Finances released | Page 2 | Vital Football

Club Finances released

Stormin' Norman said:
I still say Whelan sold us out, no one will ever change my my mind on that, as far as football finances are concerned these men haven't got a pot to piss in!
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When you say sold us out, Whelan was going to be the one having to underwrite any loses to the tune of something like 10m a year by the looks of the finances. He isn't a billionaire, so if he had to take that hit every year his families forutne would take a massive hit in a few years - is it reasonable to expect him to foot that bill? Let alone pump in extra money to make us compete better. Whelan said himself that he didn't want to pass that burden onto his family which is completely fair enough so he likely sold to the best people he could find.

I strongly doubt the guys coming in admitted they had no plan, no money and had bad intentions - they probably told him they had a long term strategy and the required finances to make it all work - they paid for the pitch and sanctioned the purchase of players before the deal was finalised which was a very promising sign at the start. They have kept their word about upgrading infrastructure and getting the acedemy running, they spent 8m+ and had us as the second biggest net spenders in the league this season and haven't at all interfered with the playing side of things (arguably they should have!) - so if Whelan was promised all of that why would he think he's sold it into bad hands?

I'm not making out like the new owners are perfect and haven't made mistakes, i think their lack of communication has been awful for example. I dont think the mystery of the change of ownership, the initial IEC finances, the deafening silence from them obviously give us some resovations and maybe in the end they will muck it up. But i strongly doubt Whelan would have sold us if he thought these guys were certain to run his club into the ground. I imainge he sold us in good faith, even if he had some doubts (who wouldn't after this being his life for 25 years or so), if you need to sell and these are the best candidates then you are going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think you are doing Whelan down there, he is still in the directors box every time i look over and hasn't cut and run. I think he did what he thought was right by us and his family. The reality was the Whelan family ownership was no longer sustainable in the long term and we had to get someone new in. Unfortunately a massive money to burn Shiek looking for a hobby wouldn't fancy little Wigan and we took the best guys we could find and have to hope for the best.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
When you say sold us out, Whelan was going to be the one having to underwrite any loses to the tune of something like 10m a year by the looks of the finances. He isn't a billionaire, so if he had to take that hit every year his families forutne would take a massive hit in a few years - is it reasonable to expect him to foot that bill? Let alone pump in extra money to make us compete better. Whelan said himself that he didn't want to pass that burden onto his family which is completely fair enough so he likely sold to the best people he could find.

I strongly doubt the guys coming in admitted they had no plan, no money and had bad intentions - they probably told him they had a long term strategy and the required finances to make it all work - they paid for the pitch and sanctioned the purchase of players before the deal was finalised which was a very promising sign at the start. They have kept their word about upgrading infrastructure and getting the acedemy running, they spent 8m+ and had us as the second biggest net spenders in the league this season and haven't at all interfered with the playing side of things (arguably they should have!) - so if Whelan was promised all of that why would he think he's sold it into bad hands?

I'm not making out like the new owners are perfect and haven't made mistakes, i think their lack of communication has been awful for example. I dont think the mystery of the change of ownership, the initial IEC finances, the deafening silence from them obviously give us some resovations and maybe in the end they will muck it up. But i strongly doubt Whelan would have sold us if he thought these guys were certain to run his club into the ground. I imainge he sold us in good faith, even if he had some doubts (who wouldn't after this being his life for 25 years or so), if you need to sell and these are the best candidates then you are going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think you are doing Whelan down there, he is still in the directors box every time i look over and hasn't cut and run. I think he did what he thought was right by us and his family. The reality was the Whelan family ownership was no longer sustainable in the long term and we had to get someone new in. Unfortunately a massive money to burn Shiek looking for a hobby wouldn't fancy little Wigan and we took the best guys we could find and have to hope for the best.
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A very well balanced post mate, but I think the poignant point you make is the lack of the Sheikh with money to burn because under ffp he wouldn't have been any more able to pour money in than the current owners we have.
 
Arthur_Itis said:
I'm intrigued Norm, what should Whelan have done if he didn't sell to the only one's interested ?
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He more than likely thought there would have been more interest in buying the club, when there wasn't and because he was desperate to sell he sold us out to this shower!
 
Stormin' Norman said:
You mean the only guys we could find? Thats what Whelan did sold us out to the only one's interested, after over 12 months of wrangling he couldn't wait to get rid!
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If they were the only ones what choice did he have? It's not like there was an option to carry on as we were as Big Dave said he could no longer afford to keep funding the annual loses at the expense of his families inheritance.

I understand your doubts but realistically i don't think we can blame Dave for selling up when the cost of not was so vast.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
A very well balanced post mate, but I think the poignant point you make is the lack of the Sheikh with money to burn because under ffp he wouldn't have been any more able to pour money in than the current owners we have.
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You know Im sure i read under FFP there is an option to spend additional money to a limit - but the thing that stops many clubs doing this is that you have to effectively completely write the money off as a gift to the club rather than put it against the club as a loan that can be recouped in some way at a later date. So only the owners who see the club as a toy rather than a business and are happy to never see their money again would ever look at that and those are obvioyvery few and far between. So it's not a loop hole used very much.
 
Arthur_Itis said:
You didn't answer my question though Hampton, I agree it doesn't have to be either or, but IF the situation panned out that we were looking relegation certainties whilst playing the youngsters would you back the club anyway and accept our fate or would you be outspoken in your criticism of team selection, manager or club (which is your right by the way, I'm not criticising you).
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I would play the homegrown kids Arthur- the children are our future !
And if they did i wouldn't be critical of it even if it resulted in relegation if the alternative was not to have a club at all !
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The club has released the financial info from last season.

Main figures of interest
£9.2m Net loss
£11.5m turnover
£19.4m wage bill
£7m players sales
£7.1m players bought

That was about the best case scenario i was expecting to be honest - I worried the loses could've been a few million higher. Just goes to show how important player sales are for any club to keep in the black and how vital it is we get that £10m in the bank for Robinson is possible, as we've spent 8m+ in the summer and brough in probably less than £1m in sales. I imagine the wage bill is in the same ball park, so without the Robinson sale we could be looking at loses of closer to £17m for this season which immedietely puts us at risk of violating FFP.

https://wiganathletic.com/news/2020...al-results-for-the-period-ended-30-June-2019/
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I wonder why you were expecting a higher loss when our loss for last season in Championship (16/17) was only £600k and especially in view of the following

IEC purchased a debt free business which included tangible and intangibles.

Burns and Griggs were sold for £6.9m and EFL/prem money totalled approx £7.58m. There were no substantial signings mid season 18/19 and unless my memory is failing; I don't recall any prior June 30 2019. And not to forget that IEC accounts (same period) show £5.5m profit provided by Latics.

I have read the full accounts and I was left feeling sick. As well as showing the financial figures, it portrays in some parts how the club is being managed/financed.

I note some substantial increase in running costs. For example;

Staff/players salaries £19.4m up from £11.7m (2018 L1) and £16.6m (2017 championship)

Agent Fees £1.1m up from £452k

Directors remuneration up by 300% with highest paid director receiving £145,000 (higher than Prime Minister and not bad for a corporate inexperienced and business failure).

The (newly appointed) auditors remuneration; £62.5k up from £22.8k

Other major points of concern;

Monies from owner of £10m are recorded as loans not gifts etc.

Sponsorship down £150k from previous year in L1.

I don't see any income from Warriors.

Creditors (money owed) falling due within one year; £29.2m within that figure is £3.3m owed for players.

I don't think this is what IEC were expecting and their present position and comments are understandable.
 
pies'r'us said:
I wonder why you were expecting a higher loss when our loss for last season in Championship (16/17) was only £600k and especially in view of the following

IEC purchased a debt free business which included tangible and intangibles.

Burns and Griggs were sold for £6.9m and EFL/prem money totalled approx £7.58m. There were no substantial signings mid season 18/19 and unless my memory is failing; I don't recall any prior June 30 2019. And not to forget that IEC accounts (same period) show £5.5m profit provided by Latics.

I have read the full accounts and I was left feeling sick. As well as showing the financial figures, it portrays in some parts how the club is being managed/financed.

I note some substantial increase in running costs. For example;

Staff/players salaries £19.4m up from £11.7m (2018 L1) and £16.6m (2017 championship)

Agent Fees £1.1m up from £452k

Directors remuneration up by 300% with highest paid director receiving £145,000 (higher than Prime Minister and not bad for a corporate inexperienced and business failure).

The (newly appointed) auditors remuneration; £62.5k up from £22.8k

Other major points of concern;

Monies from owner of £10m are recorded as loans not gifts etc.

Sponsorship down £150k from previous year in L1.

I don't see any income from Warriors.

Creditors (money owed) falling due within one year; £29.2m within that figure is £3.3m owed for players.

I don't think this is what IEC were expecting and their present position and comments are understandable.
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The previous accounts for a Championship season had the large Yanic sale, plus parachute money and likely a smaller wage bill than we have now.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
When you say sold us out, Whelan was going to be the one having to underwrite any loses to the tune of something like 10m a year by the looks of the finances. He isn't a billionaire, so if he had to take that hit every year his families forutne would take a massive hit in a few years - is it reasonable to expect him to foot that bill? Let alone pump in extra money to make us compete better. Whelan said himself that he didn't want to pass that burden onto his family which is completely fair enough so he likely sold to the best people he could find.

I strongly doubt the guys coming in admitted they had no plan, no money and had bad intentions - they probably told him they had a long term strategy and the required finances to make it all work - they paid for the pitch and sanctioned the purchase of players before the deal was finalised which was a very promising sign at the start. They have kept their word about upgrading infrastructure and getting the acedemy running, they spent 8m+ and had us as the second biggest net spenders in the league this season and haven't at all interfered with the playing side of things (arguably they should have!) - so if Whelan was promised all of that why would he think he's sold it into bad hands?

I'm not making out like the new owners are perfect and haven't made mistakes, i think their lack of communication has been awful for example. I dont think the mystery of the change of ownership, the initial IEC finances, the deafening silence from them obviously give us some resovations and maybe in the end they will muck it up. But i strongly doubt Whelan would have sold us if he thought these guys were certain to run his club into the ground. I imainge he sold us in good faith, even if he had some doubts (who wouldn't after this being his life for 25 years or so), if you need to sell and these are the best candidates then you are going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think you are doing Whelan down there, he is still in the directors box every time i look over and hasn't cut and run. I think he did what he thought was right by us and his family. The reality was the Whelan family ownership was no longer sustainable in the long term and we had to get someone new in. Unfortunately a massive money to burn Shiek looking for a hobby wouldn't fancy little Wigan and we took the best guys we could find and have to hope for the best.
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Few weeks back while at OT for the U18 FA Cup game against Utd, a mate & myself were having a beer in Hotel Football. David Sharpe was in there having a beer with some guy, on his way out we collared him to ask how things were n did he know if Geldhart was playing - he said he'd phoned him n that he was def not playing as he still had a niggling injury. The conversation turned to our new owners n we asked him if he missed the involvement of the club which he said he def did & infact offered to do a transition period which was declined. The most interesting part of the conversation was he said during the very long takeover they only actually spoke to the prospective buyers twice in the whole period - fairly strange considering such a huge purchase. IMO I think Sharpey would have loved to have had his grandad (DW) still owning the club allowing him to continue in his role but with an older head in DW he knew it was unsustainable or a further burden on his families fortune.
We have had unbelievable experiences thanks to DW's investment in our club, with no need for me to list them as others have already done so in previous threads / posts but needless to say it was never going to last forever. So to the likes of Norm & others feeling he has sold us down the river, I say - where would we have be now if he never bought us? Would you have had all those Wembley / European trips / top flight games etc etc?
Who knows what the future holds with our current owners but what I think is that after all those years in charge DW would hardly want us to just go bump.
 
walgarthjohn said:
I still to this day think why did they buy us
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I think they bought us thinking there was money to be made by getting us back to the Prem and buying cheap players and developing youth players and selling at massive profits.

On paper sounds good but i suspecr they underestimated how hard it is to do that in practice.
 
jocklatic said:
Few weeks back while at OT for the U18 FA Cup game against Utd, a mate & myself were having a beer in Hotel Football. David Sharpe was in there having a beer with some guy, on his way out we collared him to ask how things were n did he know if Geldhart was playing - he said he'd phoned him n that he was def not playing as he still had a niggling injury. The conversation turned to our new owners n we asked him if he missed the involvement of the club which he said he def did & infact offered to do a transition period which was declined. The most interesting part of the conversation was he said during the very long takeover they only actually spoke to the prospective buyers twice in the whole period - fairly strange considering such a huge purchase. IMO I think Sharpey would have loved to have had his grandad (DW) still owning the club allowing him to continue in his role but with an older head in DW he knew it was unsustainable or a further burden on his families fortune.
We have had unbelievable experiences thanks to DW's investment in our club, with no need for me to list them as others have already done so in previous threads / posts but needless to say it was never going to last forever. So to the likes of Norm & others feeling he has sold us down the river, I say - where would we have be now if he never bought us? Would you have had all those Wembley / European trips / top flight games etc etc?
Who knows what the future holds with our current owners but what I think is that after all those years in charge DW would hardly want us to just go bump.
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I was disappointed to see Sharpe go, he was a Latics fan at heart and for his flaws I rested easy knowing he had nothing but pure intentions for us.

I have a sneaky feeling way down the road he may end up owning us again.
 
Stormin' Norman said:
You mean the only guys we could find? Thats what Whelan did sold us out to the only one's interested, after over 12 months of wrangling he couldn't wait to get rid!
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If was the only one, and they wasnt, what was he supposed to do keep Latics, when it was no longer of any use or interest to him. Was costing his family a fortune to keeep it afloat and he had just been given a punishment for his opions on Jews.

He wanted out and he sold up.
 
Come on Wigan said:
If was the only one, and they wasnt, what was he supposed to do keep Latics, when it was no longer of any use or interest to him. Was costing his family a fortune to keeep it afloat and he had just been given a punishment for his opions on Jews.

He wanted out and he sold up.
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Latics are engraved on the heart of DW...if they were of no interest to him why would he continue to follow us ?.... Dave's now an elderly man who did more than his share regarding dipping his hand in his pocket. He will forever be a God in my books.
 
Come on Wigan said:
Have Latics ever made a profit?
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We will never be profitable while we have an apathetic public and " fans " who threaten not to renew season tickets at the drop of a hat.

I long for Springfield Park with about 5k diehards. this ground we have was always too big...anybody not committed should just do one.
 
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