The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 180 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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ldgavfc said:
We play better football under Dean than I have seen us play since the 90s. We are scoring goals, we try and play with possession, we overload the opposition half and box, we put passes together, we are dynamic. We stormed the championship under him with a bang average team, we are playing above our station this season with a worse squad than last.

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...we also ship goals at an alarming rate, go away from home and try to play like the home team and lose, throw games from winning positions, transition from high pressing to being easily counter attacked.

And we didn’t storm the championship, we had a terrific late run, snuck into the play offs and then did the business. But don’t kid yourself, we finished fifth. We only stormed it if you deliberately choose to focus on those ten games and completely ignore the rest.

A bit like your assessment of our current play and Deanos achievements, it’s all a bit one eyed I’m afraid.
 
Whilst I fully respect people's opinions on here nevertheless, a lot of what I read are excuses and people living more in hope than reality. But of course, that's just my own opinion so I hope I'm wrong and you are right!?

Meanwhile, our position in the table reflects the ongoing problems and the situation now requires 110% commitment and desire from the players for all our remaining games, unlike the half-hearted approach we have seen throughout the season in far too many games when we don't know which Aston Villa are turning up.

At this stage of the season, It shouldn't be necessary to install this mentality into the mind of our players as they should have started the season with the correct attitude however it's now up to Dean Smith and his coaching team to send them out onto the pitch prepared to battle for the club and their own self-pride for what's left of this season

From the manager down to the players - If we all row in the same direction then we have a chance to stay up but continue to show this inconsistency then it will only lead to one conclusion.

Now please go and show us Dean & Co what you are made off and at the very least, please give it your best shot in every remaining game.

UTV.
 
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crimsondonkey said:
...we also ship goals at an alarming rate, go away from home and try to play like the home team and lose, throw games from winning positions, transition from high pressing to being easily counter attacked.

And we didn’t storm the championship, we had a terrific late run, snuck into the play offs and then did the business. But don’t kid yourself, we finished fifth. We only stormed it if you deliberately choose to focus on those ten games and completely ignore the rest.

A bit like your assessment of our current play and Deanos achievements, it’s all a bit one eyed I’m afraid.
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I'm focusing on the ten games and the play offs because they were Dean's contribution to last season. Finishing fifth and winning that amount of games with the likes of Steer, Taylor, Glen Whelan, Hutton, nothing short of a miracle.

Liverpool and Man City go away from home and play like the home team, they've just got the player quality to see it through. We also "ship goals" because of the lack of player quality. I've seen more than enough to know that Dean can achieve results and win football matches when he has the right players at his disposal relative to the opposition. We have a good record against those around us and have dominated plenty of games against those weaker than us in the league (norwich) and in the cup this season which suggests it's not our tactical approach that is off, just a lack of quality on the pitch when competing with actual premier league teams.

Our best players are allowed to shine under Dean Smith as well. Do you think Grealish would have had such an amazing season if he was stifled in an Allardyce, Tony Pulis, Steve Bruce style of premier league survival football?
 
ldgavfc said:
I'm focusing on the ten games and the play offs because they were Dean's contribution to last season. Finishing fifth and winning that amount of games with the likes of Steer, Taylor, Glen Whelan, Hutton, nothing short of a miracle.

Liverpool and Man City go away from home and play like the home team, they've just got the player quality to see it through. We also "ship goals" because of the lack of player quality. I've seen more than enough to know that Dean can achieve results and win football matches when he has the right players at his disposal relative to the opposition. We have a good record against those around us and have dominated plenty of games against those weaker than us in the league (norwich) and in the cup this season which suggests it's not our tactical approach that is off, just a lack of quality on the pitch when competing with actual premier league teams.

Our best players are allowed to shine under Dean Smith as well. Do you think Grealish would have had such an amazing season if he was stifled in an Allardyce, Tony Pulis, Steve Bruce style of premier league survival football?
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Yes Liverpool and Man City play open and attacking football without conceding too many because the standard of players they have all over the pitch and bench is better than the rest of the leagues.

Given Deano does not have players of that quality then please explain why it’s a good idea to try and replicate this without the right players?! It’s utterly naive.

Or is it that he’s very limited as a coach and can’t set up another way, in which case I can’t see him having a successful career at the top level.

Also no-one, we’ll not me at least, is recommending Pulis type anti football to cling on. But the teams above us don’t do that mostly, and nor do they play so open. They are more pragmatic and therefore have more points on the board and will survive.

Credit to you though for your sterling defence of Deano in almost every respect. His mother couldn’t do such a convincing utterly blinkered job of absolving him of any accountability and crediting him with things that he’s been involved in but not necessarily responsible for.
 
crimsondonkey said:
Yes Liverpool and Man City play open and attacking football without conceding too many because the standard of players they have all over the pitch and bench is better than the rest of the leagues.

Given Deano does not have players of that quality then please explain why it’s a good idea to try and replicate this without the right players?! It’s utterly naive.

Or is it that he’s very limited as a coach and can’t set up another way, in which case I can’t see him having a successful career at the top level.

Also no-one, we’ll not me at least, is recommending Pulis type anti football to cling on. But the teams above us don’t do that mostly, and nor do they play so open. They are more pragmatic and therefore have more points on the board and will survive.

Credit to you though for your sterling defence of Deano in almost every respect. His mother couldn’t do such a convincing utterly blinkered job of absolving him of any accountability and crediting him with things that he’s been involved in but not necessarily responsible for.
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All the teams above us have better players apart from maybe Sheffield United who have a settled squad of players who have mostly been together for years with the same manager.

It looks like a good idea to me that Dean is setting up to score goals because it's what has kept us in the fight so far, two points from safety with two games in hand. We could play like Crystal Palace, Burnley or Newcastle and play shite football all season but we dont have the premier league quality defenders that those two clubs have.

Other clubs around us play expansive football and are struggling too. West ham have a squad with a net worth about four times ours and they're struggling. Watford the same. Brighton similar squad value, more premier league experience, same predicament.
 
ldgavfc said:
All the teams above us have better players apart from maybe Sheffield United who have a settled squad of players who have mostly been together for years with the same manager.
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That is one of those Myths, teams change very much in 18 months these days as contracts and free transfers come into things. Teams evolve very quickly these days shall we say. Even Sheffield united
 
Villan57 said:
That is one of those Myths, teams change very much in 18 months these days as contracts and free transfers come into things. Teams evolve very quickly these days shall we say. Even Sheffield united
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Even still, they're the one outlier that is outperforming more than us this season. If we go from a lucky 5th place play off winner to staying in the premier league with an entire new squad and a league cup final within a season, I think the coaching team can say it's a job well done no?
 
ldgavfc said:
Even still, they're the one outlier that is outperforming more than us this season. If we go from a lucky 5th place play off winner to staying in the premier league with an entire new squad and a league cup final within a season, I think the coaching team can say it's a job well done no?
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As long as you’re prepared to admit that if we go down then they haven’t done their job?
 
crimsondonkey said:
As long as you’re prepared to admit that if we go down then they haven’t done their job?
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No I'd look at it the way it is. Promoted with a squad not strong enough to compete at this level, holes filled with failed signings from abroad such as Wesley, Engels, Nakamba and youth players that arent ready like Douglas, Konsa. Crippled with injuries to key experienced players at various stages. I honestly dont see any flaw in the coaching staff this season whatsoever and I think they could lead us straight back up next season with a squad that is more ready for the challenge.
 
I was hoping Dean was more than a keep-ball modern coach, by that I mean more than just a buzz word user. There are many modern coaches out there but in truth very few are any better at getting results than the dinosaurs like Woy.
I really don't get this playing out from your own box lark it cost far more goals than it creates for all but the very very top sides.

Modern coaches think they've invented "the press" FFS its how we always played football as kids and how blood and thunder English football has always been played all they've done now is integrated the slow boring passing it from side to side the of the continental game but added a bit of pressure when defending
 
Villan57 said:
I was hoping Dean was more than a keep-ball modern coach, by that I mean more than just a buzz word user. There are many modern coaches out there but in truth very few are any better at getting results than the dinosaurs like Woy.
I really don't get this playing out from your own box lark it cost far more goals than it creates for all but the very very top sides.

Modern coaches think they've invented "the press" FFS its how we always played football as kids and how blood and thunder English football has always been played all they've done now is integrated the slow boring passing it from side to side the of the continental game but added a bit of pressure when defending
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Yes Villan,the great Shanks and Paisley always said the game is about players. Decent keeper, defenders good at defending, midfielders with a brain cell or two and attackers with a bit of nous.
 
Villan57 said:
I was hoping Dean was more than a keep-ball modern coach, by that I mean more than just a buzz word user. There are many modern coaches out there but in truth very few are any better at getting results than the dinosaurs like Woy.
I really don't get this playing out from your own box lark it cost far more goals than it creates for all but the very very top sides.

Modern coaches think they've invented "the press" FFS its how we always played football as kids and how blood and thunder English football has always been played all they've done now is integrated the slow boring passing it from side to side the of the continental game but added a bit of pressure when defending
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Paradoxically if we go down I'd stick with Smith since he has demonstrated he can get us out of that league.

If we stay up though... I'm really not convinced he's the man to take us forward based on his approach to the game. It's naive and consistently exposes us at the back. He also doesn't appear to be that good at motivating his players.

He ought to be seen as a one component in the overall plan to get us back to where we belong. For me if we stay up we should consider doing what Southampton did when they moved on Adkins for Pochettino. Adkins is very similar to Smith in background and approach IMO.

This will upset a few since Smith being a Villa means criticism doesn't tend to go down well but that's just how I see it.
 
Pangloss said:
Paradoxically if we go down I'd stick with Smith since he has demonstrated he can get us out of that league.

If we stay up though... I'm really not convinced he's the man to take us forward based on his approach to the game. It's naive and consistently exposes us at the back. He also doesn't appear to be that good at motivating his players.

He ought to be seen as a one component in the overall plan to get us back to where we belong. For me if we stay up we should consider doing what Southampton did when they moved on Adkins for Pochettino. Adkins is very similar to Smith in background and approach IMO.

This will upset a few since Smith being a Villa means criticism doesn't tend to go down well but that's just how I see it.
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To me, managers are staff just like players are and if a better one comes along grab them , if we had a chance of grabbing Poch or a more proven manager go for it , if we had a chance of signing Harry Kane would people be going no it's ok we have Wesley back in August, I don't think so. there again one or two might spin it .
 
Villan57 said:
Big if though mate we do look the weakest team down there
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Where we are (bottom 6) certainly reflects the current overall strength of the team. But weakest?

Norwich leak goals worse than we do; they are weaker. It's only the fact that they were promoted with an established fairly effective attack which stops them being lower. They're probably not too worried. They'll get relegated, take a look at improving the defence and hope to bounce straight back. But they are weaker than we are.

Look at the other 4. All "established" PL teams so they know the ropes, they know the reality of the PL. Yet they are struggling. Because actually they're pretty poor; the PL standard has increased and they haven't kept up. Bournemouth would be even lower without Colin Wilson, as would West Ham without Snoddy. Brighton are low on quality. Watford would be lower if Deeney didn't occasionally drag them out of a hole. Going up the table, without Ings Southampton would still be in the sh*t.

They do however show why we aren't above them; they all have that star goal-scorer. Wesley was a massive mistake for us. But overall we're no weaker.
 
I really do wish I could have your way of thinking macparland. Your positivity, along with others has to be admired. I would love to wake up one day and think like you.

Not entirely sure we are both watching the same Aston Villa side but credit where credits due you certainly do look on the bright side.
 
McParlandTheGreat said:
Where we are (bottom 6) certainly reflects the current overall strength of the team. But weakest?

Norwich leak goals worse than we do; they are weaker. It's only the fact that they were promoted with an established fairly effective attack which stops them being lower. They're probably not too worried. They'll get relegated, take a look at improving the defence and hope to bounce straight back. But they are weaker than we are.

Look at the other 4. All "established" PL teams so they know the ropes, they know the reality of the PL. Yet they are struggling. Because actually they're pretty poor; the PL standard has increased and they haven't kept up. Bournemouth would be even lower without Colin Wilson, as would West Ham without Snoddy. Brighton are low on quality. Watford would be lower if Deeney didn't occasionally drag them out of a hole. Going up the table, without Ings Southampton would still be in the sh*t.

They do however show why we aren't above them; they all have that star goal-scorer. Wesley was a massive mistake for us. But overall we're no weaker.
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Fact is we are the second bottom with the most goals conceded and we've done Norwich twice but are only 4 points above them, so much as I like your attempt to spin things in a positive light I personally think we are the weakest team in the league much as I hope I'm wrong.
I really want to be wrong but as a pragmatist I'm struggling with it
 
Thomas Holte said:
Whilst I fully respect people's opinions on here nevertheless, a lot of what I read are excuses and people living more in hope than reality. But of course, that's just my own opinion so I hope I'm wrong and you are right!?

At this stage of the season, It shouldn't be necessary to install this mentality into the mind of our players as they should have started the season with the correct attitude however it's now up to Dean Smith and his coaching team to send them out onto the pitch prepared to battle for the club and their own self-pride for what's left of this season
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I for one am absolutely living in hope and much of it I am pinning some of it on one man, John McGinn, to give us the type of lift Grealish did last season. It will still require the other 10 to turn up but I am just hoping that closing another weak link in the starting 11 will give us the 10% boost needed.

Re: your second paragraph whilst I wholeheartedly agree, they are also only human and there is nothing like a deadline to motivate the average person.

A recurring theme in the bottom six seems to be once a team crawls out of the bottom they act like the job is done and then the following week they slip right back into the drop.
 
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