Reece James | Page 5 | Vital Football

Reece James

C_Latic said:
Christ we agree on something!

Comparing and saying James is a better player than Valencia for example is an insult to Tony if I’m honest. He bossed it for us in the Premier League and went on to be signed by Sir Alex Ferguson. He’s been captain of arguably the biggest club in the world, played for them over 300 times, won Premier Leagues, League Cups an FA Cup and a Europa League, not to mention player of the year awards for United. 94 caps for his country as well. That is the career of a superstar!

To say James is unquestionably a better player than him like KDZ did is simply bollocks. He’ll have to go one hell of a long way to have a career like that, but I’m excited to see him try.

For the record if someone was to ask me the five best players I’ve ever seen in a Latics shirt I’d go...

Valencia
Palacios
N’Zogbia
Maloney
James
Click to expand...
Add Mario Melchiot to that list. Pure class.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I think that sticking to your opinion for the sake of pride in the face of contradictory evidence is never a good thing. Changing your mind based on changing evidence isnt fickle it's logical. But in our society today people often care more about winning arguments than getting the right answer and some feel if you change your mind your we be mocked, called fickle or stupid while others feel they cant admit they changed their opinion for fear of those accusations. I don't think anyone should ever be critasised for evolving their opinion as new evidence comes to light (within reason). In fact i find it can be very respectable when people hold their hands up and say they got it wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I guess some would say that I shouldn't have been so ready to dismiss the manager's capability after less than a season, especially given that he had injuries and a lack of squad depth to contend with. People would suggest that it was impulsive to write the manager off after a few months of poor form. They would probably have a fair point, if I'm honest.

I do agree though; the ability to admit to being wrong is an admirable trait. For me, seeing a debate as a 'battle' that is either 'lost' or 'won' is a narrow-minded, and unhealthy way of looking at things. I've never understood why people take this approach to discussions.
 
Will_Shahane said:
Yeah, but I guess some would say that I shouldn't have been so ready to dismiss the manager's capability after less than a season, especially given that he had injuries and a lack of squad depth to contend with. People would suggest that it was impulsive to write the manager off after a few months of poor form. They would probably have a fair point, if I'm honest.

I do agree though; the ability to admit to being wrong is an admirable trait. For me, seeing a debate as a 'battle' that is either 'lost' or 'won' is a narrow-minded, and unhealthy way of looking at things. I've never understood why people take this approach to discussions.
Click to expand...

My lad turned 18 last week Will, if I could give you both a single piece of advice it would be to try not to bother too much at this stage about keeping / sacking managers, about formations and team choices or about anything else to be honest. Happily debate them with mates / us lot, but in the end don't overly worry about it. This is the time (once your exams are finished) to be doing the bonkers away games with your mates, getting into scrapes and making some memories and just generally enjoying the whole incredible experience of being a young football fan, there's nothing like it and I wish I could go back to my early 20's and relive it all again, despite the fact that we were league 2 and bloody awful.
Leave the deep philosophical debates and serious decisions to us old farts cos we did all our bonkers stuff 30 years ago and the deep underlying reason why we are all so bitter and opinionated is cos we all yearn for those lost years of youth.
I'll get mi coat.
 
Will_Shahane said:
Yeah, but I guess some would say that I shouldn't have been so ready to dismiss the manager's capability after less than a season, especially given that he had injuries and a lack of squad depth to contend with. People would suggest that it was impulsive to write the manager off after a few months of poor form. They would probably have a fair point, if I'm honest.

I do agree though; the ability to admit to being wrong is an admirable trait. For me, seeing a debate as a 'battle' that is either 'lost' or 'won' is a narrow-minded, and unhealthy way of looking at things. I've never understood why people take this approach to discussions.
Click to expand...

I'd say impulsive would be when you lose faith in a manager if they lose 1 game after a great run. Our downturn in approach run if performances and results since end of September would see most sacked.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I'd say impulsive would be when you lose faith in a manager if they lose 1 game after a great run.
Click to expand...

That attitude is at the very extreme end of the spectrum; more accurately described as a bipolar personality, rather than just an impulsive one, in my opinion.

king_dezeeuw06 said:
Our downturn in approach run if performances and results since end of September would see most sacked.
Click to expand...

True, but people would argue that just because sackings after short time frames happen frequently, it doesn't make them right. They'd claim that the footballing world in general is too impulsive in terms of dismissing managers, and that we simply jumped on the bandwagon.
 
Arthur_Itis said:
My lad turned 18 last week Will, if I could give you both a single piece of advice it would be to try not to bother too much at this stage about keeping / sacking managers, about formations and team choices or about anything else to be honest. Happily debate them with mates / us lot, but in the end don't overly worry about it. This is the time (once your exams are finished) to be doing the bonkers away games with your mates, getting into scrapes and making some memories and just generally enjoying the whole incredible experience of being a young football fan, there's nothing like it and I wish I could go back to my early 20's and relive it all again, despite the fact that we were league 2 and bloody awful.
Leave the deep philosophical debates and serious decisions to us old farts cos we did all our bonkers stuff 30 years ago and the deep underlying reason why we are all so bitter and opinionated is cos we all yearn for those lost years of youth.
I'll get mi coat.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for taking the time to give me this advice, Arthur. I really appreciate it, and will do my best to act on it! Hope your son's doing all right. :giggle:
 
Will_Shahane said:
That attitude is at the very extreme end of the spectrum; more accurately described as a bipolar personality, rather than just an impulsive one, in my opinion.



True, but people would argue that just because sackings after short time frames happen frequently, it doesn't make them right. They'd claim that the footballing world in general is too impulsive in terms of dismissing managers, and that we simply jumped on the bandwagon.
Click to expand...

With that logic we'd have kept Joyce, Coyle, etc.

It's relative to performance, results, signs if improvement rather than time alone. It has unquestionablt been bad, its been bad enough that the sacking would be easily justifiable. The question was if people believed it would improve enough to get the results to over the line - rather than it was never that bad.
 
Form isn't a straight line KDZ. It's a wavy one. Sometimes, a very wavy one. I guess the trick is in working out - or having belief - when the downturns will go upwards again.

Then again, there's the (hidden) element that you've previously referred to......... of likeability. Neither of the other two had it, while Cooky's got it in spades.

No-one knows what would have happened if we'd gave held onto Coyle or Joyce.... or Mackay........ or even Rosler or Caldwell.

Regardless, I'm happy with our current Mon.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
With that logic we'd have kept Joyce, Coyle, etc.

It's relative to performance, results, signs if improvement rather than time alone. It has unquestionablt been bad, its been bad enough that the sacking would be easily justifiable. The question was if people believed it would improve enough to get the results to over the line - rather than it was never that bad.
Click to expand...

I guess the counterargument to the Joyce comment (not so much Coyle for obvious reasons) is that, if we'd had a little more faith in his predecessor, we wouldn't have been stuck with Warren in the first place, and may have stayed up.

The thing is, one could say that performances and results are inevitably going to be bad, and signs of improvement scarce, if the manager hasn't had enough time to settle in. Now, where the line should be drawn in terms of time given to see this improvement, is subjective and ambiguous. The argument that some would put forward is that, currently, managers don't have enough time, and the line is drawn too soon. It may be 'justifiable' to sack a manager after a few months of bad form, due to the nature of the footballing world, in which managers are generally afforded little patience at whichever club you go to. Because everyone else is doing it, it seems justifiable to do it yourself; almost like a herd mentality situation. But just because it's justifiable, doesn't mean to say that it's right.
 
Last edited:
Whilst we are on the subject of “best ever players” what would be the best ever Latics XI?

For me it would be:

Al Habsi

Melchiot
Bramble
Scharner
Baines

James
Palacios
McArthur

Valencia
Kone
Nzogbia

Subs:
Kirkland
De Zeeuw
Maguire
McCarthy
Maloney
Moses
Heskey

Now that team would take some beating
 
Victor Moses was a very lucky boy. Antonio Conte saved his career. He was on the scrapheap at Chelsea before he came along. He left us too early, should have stayed an extra season which would have benefitted us both (we’d have stayed up and he’d have got his move in the summer for far more money). Instead he wouldn’t sign a new contract to force us to sell him on the cheap. He joined Chelsea too early and it showed. He was extremely fortunate.
 
wafcharvey said:
Whilst we are on the subject of “best ever players” what would be the best ever Latics XI?

For me it would be:

Al Habsi


Melchiot
Bramble
Scharner
Baines

James
Palacios
McArthur

Valencia
Kone
Nzogbia

Subs:
Kirkland
De Zeeuw
Maguire
McCarthy
Maloney
Moses
Heskey

Now that team would take some beating
Click to expand...
Subject to change based on me forgetting players :ninja:

Al Habsi
James
Melchiot
Arry
Baines

Palacios
McArthur

Valencia
Charlie
Maloney

Heskey

Heskey possibly not a better player than Kone but would be better for the team. He’d win everything, hold the ball up and bring the attacking three into play who would rip shit up!
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
You can see the difference - like you could see Harry Maguire and likes of DeZeeuew and Baines were destined to be top Prem players when playing in the second and third teir. This lad is on another level.
Click to expand...

I think some people are getting a bit carried away with comments like "greatest player to ever pull on a Latics shirt"
He's good. Very good. And I've no doubt that he'll go on to have a long top flight career but at this stage of his career he is nowhere near as good as a whole list of players who've worn the blue & white.
Yes the potential is undoubtedly there, but at this moment in time the best player ever to pull on a Latics shirt? Do me a favour ??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.