Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 30 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

king_dezeeuw06 said:
You can't mix and match statistics everyone knows it's a disengeous tactic.

Data comes in pairs - Vote Leave 64%, 36% Remain.

Percentage of town that voted Leave 33%, Remain 18%.

Percentage that didn't vote Leave 77%, Percentage that didn't vote Remain 82%.

Whichever combo you want to use leave won. No amount of mental gynmastics changes that. Also the only people who get to define why they voted are the inviduals - just because you don't care about the issues they care about doesn't mean their reasons are invalid. Have you watched Junkers state of the union address? It's frightening where they want to take the EU to me but you might watch it and think it sounds cracking to give them more sovregnity, join the euro and join an EU army. If you disagree with me does that automatically make you thick or does it mean you just see the same data differently?

Stop self righteously patronising everyone by going on about people being evil, stupid, tricked etc - this lack of respect for other views and believing your way is the only way and the only reason people can possibly disagree with you is because they have some deficiency in intelligence or morality is quite bigoted in the correct use of the word.
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Why does Wigan and how it voted concern you so much, aren't you from warrington?
 
moonay said:
Notts, I think you've not used the right context when you allege that people didn't know what they were voting for. As others have suggested, your comment implies ignorance and a lack of understanding which isn't either actual or deserved.

What I think you may have meant though is that people were maybe misled. That they were maybe given promises that are now being ignored. That they were maybe "oversold" the vision of what leave might mean.

I think there'd be far more justification in that view, rather than asserting/implying that the electorate is largely thick.

I offer the following (excellent) thread (in response to a Piers Morgan tweet re no deal) as evidence :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1113547733300842497
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Governments since 1973 have failed to inform the electorate about the significance of the EU ....hardly does it get a mention in the school curriculum. It used to be on an ALevel Economics paper which I used to teach, but it was taken off about 10 years ago. Hence people.....generally...have not much idea of what it is all about. It's not that voters are thick...They are just ill informed.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
Absolutely disgusting behaviour. They should be thrown out for showing such disrespect. Imagine the outcry if it had been May, Johnson or even Rees-Mogg.
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My brother fought in the Falklands and the boats on the way down pulled a target to give them shooting practice, on these targets they put Maggie Thatchers photo, when she found out she said don't worry they are just letting off steam! If a pillock like her can accept soldiers need to relieve the pressure why can't comrade Corbyn??
 
exiled tic said:
My brother fought in the Falklands and the boats on the way down pulled a target to give them shooting practice, on these targets they put Maggie Thatchers photo, when she found out she said don't worry they are just letting off steam! If a pillock like her can accept soldiers need to relieve the pressure why can't comrade Corbyn??
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Oh, she was such a sport, wasn't she? I think there are more nefarious reasons in Corbyn's case, though, although I would say that the targeting of Thatcher was in equal bad taste.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
Oh, she was such a sport, wasn't she? I think there are more nefarious reasons in Corbyn's case, though, although I would say that the targeting of Thatcher was in equal bad taste.
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As I've already said, in the current climate, for this to get out, it's a dangerous thing. Whether it was Corbyn, May, Bercow, or Piers Morgan, given the Jo Cox & Rosie Cooper incidents, it may just be the trigger that some idiot needs,

That's the issue Notts. Not that it was Corbyn.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
What on earth are you talking about, oh wise one?
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I'd have thought it was fairly straightforward (though no need for the additional patronising):

I think, what you mean is ....... you believe they are ill informed.
Rather than stating an opinion, you put it across as "fact" ......"they are ill informed". You just don't know that. They may have been mis-informed by others during the campaign, but that's a completely different issue. You were referring to their education ...... or lack of it.

You have no idea what actions they may have taken since to look into the topic.
Just because a topic is no longer on your A level syllabus doesn't mean that folk haven't educated themselves by some other means. A reasonable assumption.

Still in the hole you dug Notts.
You seemingly can't abide anyone contradicting what you believe to be right. KDZ has written loads (maybe too much ;) ) on why he believes Leave to be a better option than Remain. Like you, I don't agree with him, and have (as far as I can) argued against what he's posted. You on the other hand tend to denigrate the opinion of anyone who doesn't hold your views. Your assertion that the electorate is ill-informed, thick, ignorant, or whatever does you no favours whatsoever.

That Ok ?
 
loudmouthblue said:
Why does Wigan and how it voted concern you so much, aren't you from warrington?
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Your're the one who brought up the the Wigan population percent that didn't vote for Leave, just pointing out whichever way you slice it that the final outcome was in favour of leave result.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Your're the one who brought up the the Wigan population percent that didn't vote for Leave, just pointing out whichever way you slice it that the final outcome was in favour of leave result.
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I didn't bring it up, you answered a post by Kenny Morris about 'percentages of the vote', you also spoke about Wigan's MP Nandy before I posted anything about percentages, have a look back if you are unsure, I did.

One thing I have noticed about many right wing commentators on both here and other social media outlets is they make statements without first checking their full facts.
Just for your benefit this is one where you mentioned Nandy previously, and not even in this thread, also note the date it was nearly 6 weeks ago. Nandy is Wigan's MP, so my question stands, why would someone from Warrington be so interested in a Wigan MP, or as asked before Wigan politics in general.

nandy comment.PNG
 
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Made in Wigan said:
Corbyn should have been thrown out long ago for supporting terrorists, denigrating our armed forces and working against the best interests of our country. He hasn't, so it works both ways. Perhaps using his ugly mug as target practice was a way of relieving stress given they were in a war zone putting their lives on the line to protect this country. It was toward the end of their tour so let's hope they all make it back to their families in one piece. No doubt it was precipitated by his wholehearted support of prosecuting members of their regiment for war time actions half a century ago in some politically motivated witch hunt.
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His wholehearted support ??

Didn't he say anyone who had committed a crime should face the process of the law ? Is that something you disagree with.

Can I ask you who decided to investigate these soldier's actions and which government implemented the decision prosecute them and more so why has corbyn been the one you have aimed your wrath at over it.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
About 30% voted to leave.....not enough imo to justify such a huge decision being made, especially since most people didn't know what they were voting for. Having another referendum now would yield a more reliable result.....either way.
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That would be like replaying the FA Cup Fnal again years later because the losers now have a better squad with a deeper understandig of the game. Everyone new the score, Leave or Remain. Despite the lies from both sides which you get in any election, a result was announced and the MP's should deliver the wish of the majority on that day. The amount that voted has nothing to do with it at all, everyone who was entitled to vote had a choice whether to vote or not and which way to vote. Having another referendum would be a betrayal of the electorate and democracy itself. I hope now Europe rejects the sqeals of the MP's and a No Deal brexit is forced upon us.
 
loudmouthblue said:
I didn't bring it up, you spoke about Wigan's MP Nandy before I posted anything about percentages of a vote, have a look back if you are unsure, I did.

One thing I have noticed about many right wing commentators on both here and other social media outlets is they make statements without first checking their full facts.
Just for your benefit this is one where you mentioned Nandy previously, and not even in this thread, also note the date it was nearly 6 weeks ago. Nandy is Wigan's MP, so my question stands, why would someone from Warrington be so interested in a Wigan MP, or as asked before Wigan politics in general.

View attachment 32226
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The fact you've had to trawl back 6 weeks to a completely different conversation to act as your evidence against your post from 2 days ago and the tangent we are in now i think proves my point and disproves your yours. If we go far enough back you can find most people mentioned things in different convos it doesn't mean they brought it up in the current one. I was directly replying to your post from 2 days ago where you said the percentage of Wigans population voting for leave was 33% - i was pointing out it was still more than the 18% that voted remain. You introduced the stat in a way implying leave wasnt the majority which we know isn't true no matter which way you cut it as you only count the votes made.

The issue isnt particularly about Wigan it's more a comment on how some remainers try and distort figures by cherry picking one side without giving the other. I could say 82% of Wigan didn't vote to stay in the EU to make it sound like a total landslide majority but if we use the same metric 67% didnt vote to Leave which again sounds like a landslide majority so its massively disingenuous to use use those figures rather than the real one which was 64% leave - 36% remain.

Also I'm not from Warrington - St Helens - I'd say exactly the same about our MP Mary Rimmer - its exactly the same issue but she is going to be less relevant to a debate on a Wigan forum.

And i dont even know what classes as right wing anymore - i know it's often gets used as a smear by anyone on the left these days to deligitimise opposition views, but the left has lurched so far left that anyone to the right of Marx is considered a far right by some. What was previously considered centre left is even right wing these days in some instances so I've got no problem being classed as right as i certainly dont want to be anywhere near what the current Labour of US Democrat left has unfortunately become. I think a lot of people who would consider themselves life long left leaning may even feel the same as the Overton Window has become massively skewed in reccent years.
 
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Jonnysking said:
That would be like replaying the FA Cup Fnal again years later because the losers now have a better squad with a deeper understandig of the game. Everyone new the score, Leave or Remain. Despite the lies from both sides which you get in any election, a result was announced and the MP's should deliver the wish of the majority on that day. The amount that voted has nothing to do with it at all, everyone who was entitled to vote had a choice whether to vote or not and which way to vote. Having another referendum would be a betrayal of the electorate and democracy itself. I hope now Europe rejects the sqeals of the MP's and a No Deal brexit is forced upon us.
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Quite right...go with the 70% majority who did not vote to leave......that would be democratic.
 
Made in Wigan said:
He means you're continuing to talk shite.

I took A level economics about 25 years back and got an A. I also voted leave. So therefore does that make me ill informed or educated on the topic of the EU?
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Well done.....you ought to know better, then.

You still have to resort to insults when losing an argument, don't you?
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The fact you've had to trawl back 6 weeks to a completely different conversation to act as your evidence against your post from 2 days ago and the tangent we are in now i think proves my point and disproves your yours. If we go far enough back you can find most people mentioned things in different convos it doesn't mean they brought it up in the current one. I was directly replying to your post from 2 days ago where you said the percentage of Wigans population voting for leave was 33% - i was pointing out it was still more than the 18% that voted remain. You introduced the stat in a way implying leave wasnt the majority which we know isn't true no matter which way you cut it as you only count the votes made.

The issue isnt particularly about Wigan it's more a comment on how some remainers try and distort figures by cherry picking one side without giving the other. I could say 82% of Wigan didn't vote to stay in the EU to make it sound like a total landslide majority but if we use the same metric 67% didnt vote to Leave which again sounds like a landslide majority so its massively disingenuous to use use those figures rather than the real one which was 64% leave - 36% remain.

Also I'm not from Warrington - St Helens - I'd say exactly the same about our MP Mary Rimmer - its exactly the same issue but she is going to be less relevant to a debate on a Wigan forum.

And i dont even know what classes as right wing anymore - i know it's often gets used as a smear by anyone on the left these days to deligitimise opposition views, but the left has lurched so far left that anyone to the right of Marx is considered a far right by some. What was previously considered centre left is even right wing these days in some instances so I've got no problem being classed as right as i certainly dont want to be anywhere near what the current Labour of US Democrat left has unfortunately become. I think a lot of people who would consider themselves life long left leaning may even feel the same as the Overton Window has become massively skewed in reccent years.
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I think you meant to say the right has moved so far to the right that it would make Thatcher look left wing.
Not just here, but globally. The drift to nationalism and populist movements is quite frightening. To hear right wingers in the Tory Party accuse Labour of being Marxist is quite amusing.
 
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